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 Kanluwen wrote:

If you really wanted something nasty...

You only get one item from the Relics list right? Pretty certain you can only take a single choice from the Choppa, the Bosspole or the Cybork. Not certain that it makes your whole idea unworkable but it's something to consider.

Mozzamanx wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

If you really wanted something nasty...

You only get one item from the Relics list right? Pretty certain you can only take a single choice from the Choppa, the Bosspole or the Cybork. Not certain that it makes your whole idea unworkable but it's something to consider.

That's entirely possible. I didn't see anything listed about "You can only take one from the list" though.

I might be the only positive guy in here but i like the new codex. It didn't bring anything broken. If EVERY following GW codex is gona be like that than it's gona be the best thing gw could have done.

But as for now...yep, don't see how my greentide can beat anything meaningful. I mean ig infantry beats orks in mellee with overwatch + priest and higher ini. And they're fearless armywide.

All in all, i feel that ork power level hasn't changed. Hordes still can't do a thing. BW spam is still not bad. We're still very vulnerable to sniping out and challenges.

Truckboyz weren't really good in 6 ed and they're not good now - nothing has changed here.

Grots were overpriced and quite useless other than a 5+ cover or sitting on a point behind a rock - they're still overpriced and useless other than cover but are not needed as backpoint holders now. Well, i guess they're a must for a footslogging horde now since no more kff for footslogas. And the enemy will have to waste a turn of shooting grots or we're gona have 5+ and 5+++. Yep, everything ignores cover or fires from such angles that they don't care bout grots but...noone told you u're gona have a strong horde army. Not in 6.5.

If you want to be competitive - go for BW spam with artillery/lootas (nothing has changed here). Now you have much better bikers and actually good buggies.

Or you could have a bikerstar with a painboss + warboss with a lucky stix tanking wounds in front with his 3+ rerollable cover or 4+ rerollable armor AND 5+ rerollable fnp. Rerolls are limited but he's quite durable. Though, they'll die to tau. Horribly. Use solid BLOS terrain in appropriate ammounts and you're gona be good.

See, nothing has really changed. We still can't compete with cheeze but are on par with anything else.

So in your opinion you just paid $50.00 for what exactly?

 Kanluwen wrote:

Mozzamanx wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

If you really wanted something nasty...

You only get one item from the Relics list right? Pretty certain you can only take a single choice from the Choppa, the Bosspole or the Cybork. Not certain that it makes your whole idea unworkable but it's something to consider.

That's entirely possible. I didn't see anything listed about "You can only take one from the list" though.

There isn't, unlike the main codex

Yonan- I know you love this day one DLC concept, but enough. It was cut as it didn't gave a model, to be consistent. The outcry over this, known two weeks before the WD looted wagon knowledge leaked, got GW to put it in the WD. Yes, it would gave been preferable on the website.

At least try to be balanced, rather than ignoring anything conflicting your world view of GW as the mad ttest company ever.

Melevolence wrote:

Also, I think people are peeved because there was no real reason to remove the Looted Wagon. Its such a mediocre unit, but its beloved by many Ork players due to its fluff and silliness. But it was removed and slapped into WD for no real reason other than...because?

the same reason why they dropped whazdakka... everything that didnt have a dedicated GW model which you could buy was taken from the codex.

by the way... since we can get a "free" mek for every HQ, how about an extra 45point claw (s6/7 ap2 saw) for our boy-squads?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yonan- I know you love this day one DLC concept, but enough. It was cut as it didn't gave a model, to be consistent. The outcry over this, known two weeks before the WD looted wagon knowledge leaked, got GW to put it in the WD. Yes, it would gave been preferable on the website.

Yes, it should have been on the website if they were doing this for the players and had a good reason to cut it from the codex - that's the problem. it *wasn't* on the website. It was charged extra for, following a trend of GW charging more for less. If you want me to think less poorly of GW, you're going to have to convince them to stop doing such ridiculous things. Then I'll happily sing their praises.

 Yonan wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yonan- I know you love this day one DLC concept, but enough. It was cut as it didn't gave a model, to be consistent. The outcry over this, known two weeks before the WD looted wagon knowledge leaked, got GW to put it in the WD. Yes, it would gave been preferable on the website.

Yes, it should have been on the website if they were doing this for the players and had a good reason to cut it from the codex - that's the problem. it *wasn't* on the website. It was charged extra for, following a trend of GW charging more for less. If you want me to think less poorly of GW, you're going to have to convince them to stop doing such ridiculous things. Then I'll happily sing their praises.

GW did it for a laugh. Terrible, i know.

Honestly, White Dwarf is available for the cost of a pot of paint. If you think the price of a pot of paint for the option is a ripoff, PM me and I'll send you a PDF.

I think the issue is less the cost and more the principle and precedent.

My opinions on the codex have been stated many times. I play tyranids and I'd honestly place the ork codex as worse if only for all the opportunities GW had, but instead decided to completely overlook. Tankbustas are the only unit that can be described as "completely and appropriately buffed" (as long we're willing to overlook the Mob Rule changes), which is awesome for Tankbustas! Too bad for the rest of the Codex though. Still, a bad codex didn't stop me from spending time last night working on my warbuggies.

 Yonan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
Anyone that does so is just supporting the practice of cutting content from the main product in order to sell secondary products. It's remarkable how closely GW is following the DLC model from video games. Hopefully enough people say "no thanks!" to make it not worth them doing.

If we're talking about units being cut or something, I would agree. The only thing I can really see that should be in both books is The Green Tide formation and the Big Bosspole as options.

Units like the looted wagon released as day one DLC in white dwarf? I'm not sure on the content of the second ork book that's coming, but if it's anything like Crimson Slaughter then the additional rules could easily have been included in the main codex. Not to mention things like dataslates that add 3 lines of new rules for $18.

Is it really Day 1 DLC when those rules were released before the codex was?

Here's a good one. They make Grotsnik nearly mandatory and don't have him for sale.

Same with a dozen other models like Kommandos.

Grotsnik, Kommandos/Tankbustas, and Snikrot have only been out of stock for the past week.

Try Wood Elves where the plastic Core kits are going out of stock for lengthy periods of time, almost all of the Hero/Lord options have been out of stock for lengthy periods of time, and where Waywatchers are basically a race to see who can order them first.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Honestly, White Dwarf is available for the cost of a pot of paint. If you think the price of a pot of paint for the option is a ripoff, PM me and I'll send you a PDF.

I already have my "copy". It's not the price, it's the principle - and if you let them do it, they'll keep doing it.

 Yonan wrote:

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Honestly, White Dwarf is available for the cost of a pot of paint. If you think the price of a pot of paint for the option is a ripoff, PM me and I'll send you a PDF.

I already have my "copy". It's not the price, it's the principle - and if you let them do it, they'll keep doing it.

And how do you propose we stop them? If we don't get the rules we're shooting ourselves in the foot and don't have them to use but if we do buy the rules we encourage them further (not that GW ever knows why we don't buy things making boycotts worthless unless you picket Nottingham to make your point).

Mozzamanx wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

If you really wanted something nasty...

You only get one item from the Relics list right? Pretty certain you can only take a single choice from the Choppa, the Bosspole or the Cybork. Not certain that it makes your whole idea unworkable but it's something to consider.

Okay the wording is this for both the supplement and the main book:

Only one of each of the following Kustom Gubbinz can be chosen per army--there is only one of each of these items in the entire galaxy!

So you can have more than one item from the Relics list, but you just cannot have doubles of an item.

GW notices drops in profit, it's *all* they notice. Just don't buy it - you can still play easily enough. I know it's hard for gamers, but if you want the hobby you love to improve, you have to discourage bad practice from the companies that service you. They'll either mend their ways or die off.

This time it's $4.00.
Next time...?

I'm not really sure that I would say rules for Looted Wagons (which really just seem to be cheaper versions of Battlewagons) in White Dwarf is a "bad practice".

It's not like it invalidates you using your old Looted Wagons as Battlewagons with the appropriate upgrades now, right?

 Yonan wrote:
GW notices drops in profit, it's *all* they notice. Just don't buy it - you can still play easily enough. I know it's hard for gamers, but if you want the hobby you love to improve, you have to discourage bad practice from the companies that service you. They'll either mend their ways or die off.

The problem is, because they can't see why we're not buying things, they can't really know what's causing profits to drop off. They may just assume the WD is failing as a magazine again and do yet another reboot on it.

Though if this Kodex launch doesn't bring a profit (which, sadly, it will) they might actually correlate something properly.

Anvildude wrote:
Though if this Kodex launch doesn't bring a profit (which, sadly, it will) they might actually correlate something properly.

Yeah...they might correlate that Orks don't sell.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm not really sure that I would say rules for Looted Wagons (which really just seem to be cheaper versions of Battlewagons) in White Dwarf is a "bad practice".

It's not like it invalidates you using your old Looted Wagons as Battlewagons with the appropriate upgrades now, right?

Yes and no. Battlewagons having an official model now means that anyone's looted wagons would need to have a comprable profile. I can safely say that my looted Devilfish (whenever I get around to finishing it) will not have a battlewagon's profile.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
GW notices drops in profit, it's *all* they notice. Just don't buy it - you can still play easily enough. I know it's hard for gamers, but if you want the hobby you love to improve, you have to discourage bad practice from the companies that service you. They'll either mend their ways or die off.

The problem is, because they can't see why we're not buying things, they can't really know what's causing profits to drop off. They may just assume the WD is failing as a magazine again and do yet another reboot on it.

I'd be more then happy to tell them if they didn't cut all communication off and have automated messages when you do email them. Gamers are easy to cultivate, just stop pissing them off (you'll always do this regardless but when its huge chunks of your customer base consistently you have to question what you're doing). Stop attacking people and stop trying to groom your customers into a bunch of fething goob losers by force feeding bad game mechanics.

A few people Ive talked to agree that the Day One DLC argument doesn't have a lot of weight. For one it makes sense to have it separate if GW doesn't want model-less units in their Codexes. Second, They're just glad they still have access to it even though they never fielded them in 6th. And a buck or two to get a new unit isn't that cad when your just using spare parts you have lying around to do a Kitbash unit.

Nothing you just said stops it from being day one dlc. If it was released free it wouldn't be "day one dlc". It's existing content, removed from the product to be sold separately at launch - that's the definition of day one dlc.

Exactly, their day one DLC was the ghazskull book that is basically a few formations that make the ork dex better.

Here's how you fight GW

1) Have an online group via whatever and share everything there. Thanks to dakka and other places many groups have all the WD rules in picture form archived.

2) Group buy your books via digital or club.

Costs drop to pocket change, you get to play the game you love and you give GW the finger.

 Yonan wrote:
Nothing you just said stops it from being day one dlc. If it was released free it wouldn't be "day one dlc". It's existing content, removed from the product to be sold separately at launch - that's the definition of day one dlc.

Free DLC is still DLC. So yeah, it'd still be "DLC". You can even argue that because the WD with rules in it doesn't cost more than normal that it's already "free" (with purchase of something some people buy every week anyways) because no additional cost is being put on the WD.

 Yonan wrote:
Nothing you just said stops it from being day one dlc. If it was released free it wouldn't be "day one dlc". It's existing content, removed from the product to be sold separately at launch - that's the definition of day one dlc.

No, that is an unsupported supposition on your part, with significant enough evidence casting doubt on it that you conveniently ignore in every post.
It was cut from the codex as it doesn't have a model. Not in order to be sold at launch. There is public enough assurance on that. GW do enough bad things that making up gak isn't needed.

Just tired of the old GW "1 day I can play my army and the next I can't play it as it has been built for the last 5+ years" thing. I had 2 dreads and 2 units of kans thanks to having a Big Mek in the HQ. Not anymore. Same with Meganobz as an elites choice and regular nobz as a troop choice thanks to the warboss. Yeah unbound would still let it happen, but now I have to tactically shoot my army in the foot just to play the army that was perfectly legal and by the book 3 days ago.

Add in that I will not be playing 7th and that takes unbound off the table as well.

Skriker

 Ravenous D wrote:
Exactly, their day one DLC was the ghazskull book that is basically a few formations that make the ork dex better.

Here's how you fight GW

1) Have an online group via whatever and share everything there. Thanks to dakka and other places many groups have all the WD rules in picture form archived.

2) Group buy your books via digital or club.

Costs drop to pocket change, you get to play the game you love and you give GW the finger.

I actually would recommend #3:

3) With said group try a non-GW game.