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 Skriker wrote:
Just tired of the old GW "1 day I can play my army and the next I can't play it as it has been built for the last 5+ years" thing. I had 2 dreads and 2 units of kans thanks to having a Big Mek in the HQ. Not anymore. Same with Meganobz as an elites choice and regular nobz as a troop choice thanks to the warboss. Yeah unbound would still let it happen, but now I have to tactically shoot my army in the foot just to play the army that was perfectly legal and by the book 3 days ago.

Add in that I will not be playing 7th and that takes unbound off the table as well.

Skriker

Then don't play the new dex either.

Done. It's not like GW forces you to buy it.

Remember when DLC was called Expansion pack, and People actually enjoyed it?

Starcraft had the Broodlord expansion pack that added a lot more content and was pretty awesome.

That's how I personally feel about Waaagh! Ghaz supplement. This stuff didn't have to be in the main codex. I normally don't like Ghazzy's fluff. But hey it gets me 60+ pages of more Ork fluff and some fun missions.

But hey I wasn't playing when GW was giving stuff for free.

The Looted Wagon? I never really liked them before. Honestly they would explode on turn one. AV 11 and open topped did not help it any. Unlike the Doom or Marbo(sp) the Ork codex doesn't really suffer from it's loss.

Would you rather have it disappear like the Zogwart or Wazzdakka?

I'm not sure why people think they added in the rules for the looted wagon because they were concerned about fan backlash.
They didn't seem concerned about Nid backlash when they dropped the sporepods and I haven't seen those added in a WD, even months after release.
They didn't seem concerned when they released the chariot with a flamer it couldn't fire and waited an entire edition to fix as opposed to a simple FAQ.
I mean I would honestly find it surprising out of all the things complained about, that is what they listened to.
Though it does fit in with the 7th "leaks" we saw. Rumor was released one day, the next there was a video up explaining how the actual rule worked.

 slowthar wrote:


3) With said group try a non-GW game.

Nobody likes a quitter.

Plus people still love 40k, they just hate GW and that relationship was going fine until GW started shoving its way into the core mechanics to try and sleeze out some more money. Now we have a bunch of dreadfleet-esq random gak smeared all over the game, and the only way to make it work is take it away from GW.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I'm not sure why people think they added in the rules for the looted wagon because they were concerned about fan backlash.
They didn't seem concerned about Nid backlash when they dropped the sporepods and I haven't seen those added in a WD, even months after release.
They didn't seem concerned when they released the chariot with a flamer it couldn't fire and waited an entire edition to fix as opposed to a simple FAQ.
I mean I would honestly find it surprising out of all the things complained about, that is what they listened to.
Though it does fit in with the 7th "leaks" we saw. Rumor was released one day, the next there was a video up explaining how the actual rule worked.

Considering a #1 complaint from fans in general(across every new codex) was the deletion of units it's not too surprising. If someone fought to get it in there he or she will probably be less inclined after all the internet hate.


I'm enjoying the internet hate right now. A couple of people I know are selling off their ork armies without playing the new edition's version at all. Knee jerk reactions like those on this and other forums are the reason I don't have to pay retail.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I'm not sure why people think they added in the rules for the looted wagon because they were concerned about fan backlash.
They didn't seem concerned about Nid backlash when they dropped the sporepods and I haven't seen those added in a WD, even months after release.
They didn't seem concerned when they released the chariot with a flamer it couldn't fire and waited an entire edition to fix as opposed to a simple FAQ.
I mean I would honestly find it surprising out of all the things complained about, that is what they listened to.
Though it does fit in with the 7th "leaks" we saw. Rumor was released one day, the next there was a video up explaining how the actual rule worked.

Considering a #1 complaint from fans in general(across every new codex) was the deletion of units it's not too surprising. If someone fought to get it in there he or she will probably be less inclined after all the internet hate.


I'm enjoying the internet hate right now. A couple of people I know are selling off their ork armies without playing the new edition's version at all. Knee jerk reactions like those on this and other forums are the reason I don't have to pay retail.

How did GW find out about fan reaction and (assuming somehow they did) why haven't they listened to it before?

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
Nothing you just said stops it from being day one dlc. If it was released free it wouldn't be "day one dlc". It's existing content, removed from the product to be sold separately at launch - that's the definition of day one dlc.

No, that is an unsupported supposition on your part, with significant enough evidence casting doubt on it that you conveniently ignore in every post.
It was cut from the codex as it doesn't have a model. Not in order to be sold at launch. There is public enough assurance on that. GW do enough bad things that making up gak isn't needed.

Significant enough evidence being your 'friends'.

 MWHistorian wrote:

How did GW find out about fan reaction and (assuming somehow they did) why haven't they listened to it before?

I feel like this question is be asked from the perspective of GW living on top of Mt Olympus with no understanding of mortal men. They're just a company like Wizards of the Coast or Wyrd. Only difference is that they have decided to be more introverted towards their community. Hiding their employees behind NDAs and not allowing anyone inside the company to talk to the media aside from their own magazine.

Wyrd have open Playtests. GW keeps their business practices secret. I can tell you with 100% confidence if Wyrd, Mantic, Privateer Press, and even Wizards of the Coast are listening to podcasts and paying attention to forums. Then GW is definitely.

I remember a podcast recently mentioning that they could only get the Black Library Authors who were not in house due to GW's employee NDAs.

Savageconvoy wrote:I'm not sure why people think they added in the rules for the looted wagon because they were concerned about fan backlash.
They didn't seem concerned about Nid backlash when they dropped the sporepods and I haven't seen those added in a WD, even months after release.
They didn't seem concerned when they released the chariot with a flamer it couldn't fire and waited an entire edition to fix as opposed to a simple FAQ.
I mean I would honestly find it surprising out of all the things complained about, that is what they listened to.
Though it does fit in with the 7th "leaks" we saw. Rumor was released one day, the next there was a video up explaining how the actual rule worked.

Spore pods have never been made from essentially 100% GW parts! unlike looted wagons. And ork players are more vocal AND more numerous than nid players. Two differences

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
Nothing you just said stops it from being day one dlc. If it was released free it wouldn't be "day one dlc". It's existing content, removed from the product to be sold separately at launch - that's the definition of day one dlc.

No, that is an unsupported supposition on your part, with significant enough evidence casting doubt on it that you conveniently ignore in every post.
It was cut from the codex as it doesn't have a model. Not in order to be sold at launch. There is public enough assurance on that. GW do enough bad things that making up gak isn't needed.

Significant enough evidence being your 'friends'.

Nope, the leak two weeks before the WD leak, the layout, lack of promised article that the looted wagon replaced. That's assurance, not evidence, and I have not claimed my friends as evidence for others, as I'm more precise than you seem to manage. Shocking I know.

Believe whatever close minded gak you like, just don't claim it as truth, or pretend he other view doesn't exist.

The Ork Codex is fine. Keeping old Cyborks and making Killa Kans useable would have been nice, but our new artillery is great, most of the updated rules are good, and most importantly Orks can finally make it to assault. With mini-fleet every turn and the ability to run+charge, they've brought Choppa Boys and Stormboys and the like back from the dead.

Also, Plastic Meganobz!

Can we deal with cheese lists and any army capable of throwing out buffs like candy? Not easily, but those armies are generally too powerful for their own good anyways, and they're not insurmountible. I'm glad we didn't get a full on kneecap of a codex, with general improvements, and that we also didn't become the OP army of the century.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just for the sake of expounding: Ork Players have been asking and pleading for Plastic Meganobz for as long as I can remember, but now that we have them everyone is complaining about other things and ignoribg what they've been asking for for years.

The book is underwhelming in ever sense.

The fluff content of the actual codex is recycled, spartan, and uninspired. Nothing about the codex fluff is better, or more interesting than the 2008 release.

Mechanically, it is ALSO recycled, spartan, and uninspired.
It will limp along as a lower mid-tier, beer and pretzels army for another six or seven years with it's die hard fans, but it isn't going to engender any excitement for the majority of them.
Nothing in the mechanics of this book is better, or more interesting than the 2008 release.

Having had another read and letting some stuff sink in I think I'm going to enjoy this Codex.

I mentioned the loss of Dust Cloud off Bikes, but I'd totally forgotten about Jink. So that's not too bad.

Big Mek can take KFF or SAG AND a Warbike ! Loving that. Bike is Relentless, so 12" move with SAG.

Koptas are cheaper with Rokkits.

Yeah, I think I do like this Codex after all

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Spore pods have never been made from essentially 100% GW parts! unlike looted wagons. And ork players are more vocal AND more numerous than nid players. Two differences

If there was no model, then how are they sure people are using 100% GW parts? There's a drop pod model, why can't Nid players just glue on nid bitz? Why does it even matter if it's a pile of glued together spare bits or a third party model? It's not like GW sees profit in either case. Also I don't see how Ork players were more vocal. I saw it divided that some were upset and others didn't care because there was never a reason to use them. I'm not sure how these broke down into percentages of players, but it's not like it's justified in one case and not the other based on popularity especially since the new releases are meant to attract in new players and you can't expect new players to be eager to hop in when the older players are noticeably upset about the removal of units.

I LOVE this codex now...

I got all the flyer rules in it, bonus, GW actually gave me something for FREE that i used to have to pay for.

same with stompa rules, bonus!

the army got all the rules it needed,

CC buffed, AA buffed, anti MC buffed, anti flying MC buffed, ranged anti tank buffed, pts cost on some of the more awesome units came down, (note orks have the best AA in game now against both flyers and FMC's)

got some characters moved out of unit upgrades into HQ slots, and they have some awesome warlord traits that synergise with the army.

lots of different competitive builds, my green tide, speed freak, MANZ missle brigade, and my mixed lists all are now compettive where as before all were "meh"


the layout is *different* then the other books, but compared my new IG, newish GK, and old as feth ork codex, Id say this new ork dex is only slightly less well laid out then the new guard codex, but miles ahead of how they used to do it.

complaining about art in a rules book... well, I actually like the pics of the models, plenty of ART art in other places in the codex.

most of the complainers are complaining that things *CHANGED* not that its worse... but they see any change as *worse*

losing cybork is not a huge deal, nor is losing zags special deal... seriously... someone said now storm boys will never be used... after they went down in pts by 30%, and now benifit from waggh and ere we go....

we have TWO unqiue detachments in this codex, with 4HQ's being very possible... and HOW on possible on every ork is the stuff dreams are made of.

painboys are awesome,

zag also grants you rerolls to LD and pinning...hes awesome, losing his stupid charge from DS that hardly ever worked, killed dudes, and was limited to 20 boy squads when they are now 30 is a bit of a silly things to exclaim "NO ONE WILL TAKE STORMBOYS" over...

"A new bottom tier codex with expensive models you have to buy a lot of!" isn't a strong selling point for new players either.

The codex isn't fun. There are some lists I think will work it's just the army does not feel like orks.

I've been trying several different list so far and what seems to work really well is 'eavy armor.
I gave the books formation a try with all boyz inside Trukk's and sporting 'eavy armor.
The list worked amazing in three separate games.
Now obviously you need to round it out a bit but it did work... However it seems very un-Orky.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 slowthar wrote:


3) With said group try a non-GW game.

Nobody likes a quitter.

Plus people still love 40k, they just hate GW and that relationship was going fine until GW started shoving its way into the core mechanics to try and sleeze out some more money. Now we have a bunch of dreadfleet-esq random gak smeared all over the game, and the only way to make it work is take it away from GW.

well, to be fair, GW might have to do less profit "squeesing" if they were not getting jackhammered by people D/L pdfs of the rules for free, and getting re casts .

just look at HMV and blockbuster to see what happens to companies when everyone just starts getting their products for free, or from forgers.


seriosuly... the biggest gripe I heard since 3rd ed was "GW doesnt do stuff fast enough, nothing new for ages" now they roll stuff out at a better pace, and people rage about having to pay for it... or that its too fast...

heck... even looking at the new MANz.. sure I could buy kromlech ones at 3 for 60$ + shipping instead of 3 for 70$ for the GW manz...

so GW spent all the money on making a game, for a 3rd party to make money, and is only 10$ cheaper for that 3rd party, when they do 0 of the extra work that GW has to do.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gleath wrote:
The codex isn't fun. There are some lists I think will work it's just the army does not feel like orks.

feels like orks to me... much MORE then the last codex did...

I feel that making orks deadly in CC (more in the ability to actually get everything into CC) in this edition is far more orky then the shooty spam lootas that seemed to be the most common list last edition

 easysauce wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 slowthar wrote:


3) With said group try a non-GW game.

Nobody likes a quitter.

Plus people still love 40k, they just hate GW and that relationship was going fine until GW started shoving its way into the core mechanics to try and sleeze out some more money. Now we have a bunch of dreadfleet-esq random gak smeared all over the game, and the only way to make it work is take it away from GW.

well, to be fair, GW might have to do less profit "squeesing" if they were not getting jackhammered by people D/L pdfs of the rules for free, and getting re casts .

just look at HMV and blockbuster to see what happens to companies when everyone just starts getting their products for free, or from forgers.


seriosuly... the biggest gripe I heard since 3rd ed was "GW doesnt do stuff fast enough, nothing new for ages" now they roll stuff out at a better pace, and people rage about having to pay for it... or that its too fast...

heck... even looking at the new MANz.. sure I could buy kromlech ones at 3 for 60$ + shipping instead of 3 for 70$ for the GW manz...

so GW spent all the money on making a game, for a 3rd party to make money, and is only 10$ cheaper for that 3rd party, when they do 0 of the extra work that GW has to do.

Netflix and Redbox put Blockbuster out of business. Cheaper, more friendly to use competition.

Savage - so GW don't make money when people buy rhinos to convert to wagons? Or chimera, or russ...etc.

They were VERY vocal. Exceptionally so. Enough that GW noticed.

The codex isn't bottom tier. Assault becomes very viable in this book, with active assists to doing it, unlike the previous dexes in sixth.

The people clamoring for an accelerated release schedule were not expecting to see a marked drop in content quality offset by a massive increase in cost. GW has massively increased the production quality of their books. I won't dispute that. They're putting out big, shiny, pretty hardcover books. Those books still spend far too much page count on recycled art and recycled pictures of miniatures.

Just got the 'Dex. Initial impressions: GW wants you to play Unbound. There is a distinct lack of focus on Force Organization, backed up with the "weird" layout of the book. There is the fluff at the beginning, unit descriptions in the middle, and rules in the end. The unit descriptions are a bit bizarre though- using actual model pictures instead of artwork... hmmm. Not sure I like that. Seeing artwork allows you to imagine what your Warboss will be like. Seeing the actual model kind of "taints" that vision for a lack of a better word.

I didn't get too much into the rules, but Mob Rule seems overly harsh. You've already lost models forcing you to make a Morale or Pinning test, and if you fail, you can take more casualties? Hmmm. The other thing that leaped out at me- Burnas. They have two profiles, a shooting and close combat profile, and a rule that says they can't use both profiles in the same turn. So does that mean if I use them as a close combat weapon on my turn, if I get charged on the following turn, I can't overwatch with them? Or if I Overwatch with them in my turn, I can't use them as a close combat weapon? Again, that seems very harsh when there are other examples of weapons that do not have this limitation.

The Ork codex struck me as a 'quirky' and 'fun' codex, with just little things that could change the way your army plays, but in a minor way that added spice to an otherwise bland horde army. Things like Red Paint Job, or the old lost a fight, roll to see if we fight each other chart, the names of all the weapons and abilities- all pointed at an army that didn't take itself too seriously. This codex strikes me as a serious codex. The spice has been removed and seemingly replaced with something that has bite to it. It's a big shift from the last codex, and a lot of prior players are having issues adapting to the new play style. No biggie, it's human nature. We don't like change, we resist change, and when something doesn't meet our expectations of what it should be, we get upset.

As a side note, this codex strikes me as a rush job. There is barely any artwork in the book at all, and most of it is not new artwork. There are some nice pieces in there, but all vector graphics thrown together. The map on pg. 11 seems woefully incomplete. For example, there is Baal, (Blood Angels) on the map, but then it shows Macragge, The Realm of Ultramar in a bigger font. Look over at Fenris, and it says in the smallest font on the map, Fenris. Nothing else, like Home of the Space Wolves, or something. Just not a good map at all. The lack of artwork for the unit entries is a huge indicator. Artwork takes a long time to produce. You have to come up with a rough idea for it, find an artist, do some proofs, come up with a final piece, etc. etc. It usually takes 3-4 months for artwork to get into a book. Sometimes, it's the piece that takes the longest to get in. GW also likes to use the same artist throughout an entire book for cohesion and tieing it all together. This book lacks that in spades. What little artwork is present is a mishmash of styles and theme. Also, by using the actual models themselves it would actually make it easier for the digital publication- which I don't have, but I bet in the digital codex, if you click on the unit entry picture, it takes you to a bigger, blown up and possible 360 view of the model, right? Here is what I think- tin foil hat time! GW needed to get this book out in a hurry. They recycled a lot of art and skipped most of it during layout instead choosing to use pictures of studio models to speed up development. They tweaked a lot of stuff, but almost totally ignored an entirely new phase of the game- the Psychic Phase. Yeah, the Weirdboy is still in there, and they have a powers chart, but I just expected more. I dunno. Something to do with the Waagh! would have been awesome- like during a Waagh, all Orks are counted as having Adamtium Will or something. The layout looks nice, but is very bland. What I mean is, take a look at the Space Marines codex. There are quotes everywhere, vector graphics, they even have pages of all the various Space Marine Chapters with a brief description of them. There are very few huge blocks of text that are not broken up by some kind of graphic or artwork. The tribes of Orks are described in very nice detail, but lack any painted examples or any hint at how to paint them. Only two tribes are shown- the Goffs and Bad Moons. It looks like the Kult of Speed was written right out of the book. :(

Final Thoughts: The Orks play style has changed again, no surprise there. There is a focus on the new models, something GW has really been pushing in the last several books. The book itself is very bland and plain compared to a lot of the newer books GW has released. It shows a lot of pretty model pictures, but lacks teef if you know what I mean. I am sure that if I bought the digital codex and printed it out, it would look exactly like this book. Rules wise, like I said, GW has changed the play style of the Orks again, and I'm not sure what the focus is. Shooting? Close Combat? Both? Neither? It's definitely not in the Psychic phase, that's for sure. Sometimes, it would be nice to get a rules developer's point of view and intention of how an army is supposed to play when a new codex comes out. Right now, the fluff =/= how to play the Orks, and I don't know if that's an Ork Codex problem, or a 7th Edition rule set problem.

All these "problems" can be fixed by playing the game as designed.

Multiple CADs.
Lords of War.
Data slates and formations.

When you are playing against someone that doesn't allow these things, you are giving them an advantage.

Example: Seriously, who in their right mind is going to ignore a Stompa on the table? It's win/win for orks when they take one, and with MULTIPLE outlets for invulns and repairs.....They have to choose, shoot the giant nasty stompa, or shoot the massive hoard of infantry coming at me.

You can literally take a ORK CAD to hoard up boys, and a normal CAD for shootahs to lock down objectives. And you can literally use any fortification released now...(And orkify it)

You all asked for these things, you wanted new toys and more powerful units, quit whining and freaking use them.

This is a seventh Ed codex, if you choose to not utilize the tools GW gave you in seventh edition then that is why you are having problems.....

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Savage - so GW don't make money when people buy rhinos to convert to wagons? Or chimera, or russ...etc.

They were VERY vocal. Exceptionally so. Enough that GW noticed.

People were vocal about the Spore pod as well. I can't quantify how vocal they were, no more than you at least, and they went unheard. Is there a way you can actually point to how GW listened to the ork players while ignoring nid players other than speculation?

Well I'm not saying new orks are bad, it's just the way you play them now. I don't own loads of bugies, big gunz and baby stompas, they just look so bad in my opinion,bleh. Plus the biggest problem for me is putting all that plastic together in a bag and going by 2 buses to the shop to put my bazillion of stuff for 1000 points on the table when some space marines player just puts 2 tac squads hq and devs. I mean, I ran like 2 bws 1 trukk full of boyz and nobz and jet, which I just hate as it is so freaking big, I hate flyers!!! They are huge, it takes so much space that I can't even fit in any other vehicle in my warhammer case, if I put it there!, So this is my problem with orks.
I'd be fine to take some elite dudes and couple of bw, but carrying all this is just so annoying, I had broken my truks and some other models because transporting them is so hard . I'm almost not playing any games now just because of that, and playing kill team and mordheim more and more because i can just fit it in a back pack and off I go, which makes me realy sad as i love wh. And no, I don't have money to buy a car :(

I don't understand the explanation of the WD Looted Wagon as "They don't make a model for it". They do! They make a Chimera, and a Hellhound, and a Russ, and a Rhino.

It's almost as much a GW model as a Chaos Rhino. In fact, they could have offered an online deal with 1 Chimera/Hellhound/Russ/Rhino and a Ork Deathrolla sprue as a Looted Wagon purchase. If SM Rhino + Chaos Sprue=CSM Rhino, then SM Rhino + Ork Sprue should have equalled Looted Wagon.

I'm saddened by the general weakening of orks (seriously, Deff Dreads were too powerful fighting at I2?), but I'm really disappointed by the loss of pre-existing modeling options.
I can understand making Cybork body work as Feel No Pain, but why remove Cybork body from so many models which had it as an option? Why give (almost) every unit Stikkbombs?Why remove 'Eavy armor from Boyz mob Boss Nobs? These types of petty, pointless changes punish the dedicated fan and modeler, and push the game further away from being a tabletop wargame. If the models aren't equipped correctly, and aren't modeled appropriately, then why don't we use cardstock counters for them and save the money?

It seems to be what they are doing with Warlord Traits (you can't model them, since they are randomly rolled each game) and 'magic items' (aka Gifts of Gork and Mork). There's no way to tell the Lucky Stixx from a Waaagh Banner, and no way to tell the 'magic choppa' from a 'Uge Choppa, or the 'magic shoota' from a regular shoota. For a game that emphasizes 'cinematic' action and true line of sight, making important parts of the game only accessible on a piece of paper seems like an odd decision. I didn't like it with Chaos rewards, and I still don't like it.

I don't think anyone will be massively confused by seeing an ork nob who appears to be heavily armored but only as a 6+ save in a unit of 6+ saves, but why insult the guy who bought, modeled, and painted him that way? Given that GW doesn't sell enough armored plates to make all the orks in a box have 'eavy armor, why give the option for every unit to have it, since now orks that don't appear to have increased armor saves will, since it's an option?

 sfshilo wrote:
All these "problems" can be fixed by playing the game as designed.

Multiple CADs.
Lords of War.
Data slates and formations.

When you are playing against someone that doesn't allow these things, you are giving them an advantage.

Example: Seriously, who in their right mind is going to ignore a Stompa on the table? It's win/win for orks when they take one, and with MULTIPLE outlets for invulns and repairs.....They have to choose, shoot the giant nasty stompa, or shoot the massive hoard of infantry coming at me.

You can literally take a ORK CAD to hoard up boys, and a normal CAD for shootahs to lock down objectives. And you can literally use any fortification released now...(And orkify it)

You all asked for these things, you wanted new toys and more powerful units, quit whining and freaking use them.

This is a seventh Ed codex, if you choose to not utilize the tools GW gave you in seventh edition then that is why you are having problems.....

7th isn't "Designed" so much as it is a marketing plan with miniatures. People are not going to use multiple CADs to horde up, they'll use the minimum troops for each CAD and the maximum HQs, so they can stuff each unit with as many characters and special rules as possible. GW thinks they have figured out how to sell more box of Ork Boyz, really all they've done is sell character models. Assuming most players don't already have them.

I like the new ork codex.

Some old things got changed for better, or worse.

Sure we cant take Dreads or nobs as troops, but we can have 9 troops and 3 hqs with free mek slots.

Killakans now have double the unit size, so they aren't hurting so bad from having to take dreads in HS too.

I think the only real nerf is Lootas. Lootas got cheaper, but by moving them to HS they will not be fielded as often. Essentially they took one of the most popular units, made it slightly better, but then put it where all the new toys are and the BW are, making it so you are less likely to take them.

Ironically in a small points game you can make a very very shoot orky army with 3 loota squads and then tankbustas+ 2 5 man kommandos with 2 rokkits each. Not many points, lots of dakka. But 1500+ you probably want to spend the HS slots on something other than 3 lootas, of course when we consider more than 1 detachement, or that Orks can ally with Orks (orks/waaagh ghaz) then you can have some mojo.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 sfshilo wrote:
All these "problems" can be fixed by playing the game as designed.

Multiple CADs.
Lords of War.
Data slates and formations.

When you are playing against someone that doesn't allow these things, you are giving them an advantage.

Example: Seriously, who in their right mind is going to ignore a Stompa on the table? It's win/win for orks when they take one, and with MULTIPLE outlets for invulns and repairs.....They have to choose, shoot the giant nasty stompa, or shoot the massive hoard of infantry coming at me.

You can literally take a ORK CAD to hoard up boys, and a normal CAD for shootahs to lock down objectives. And you can literally use any fortification released now...(And orkify it)

You all asked for these things, you wanted new toys and more powerful units, quit whining and freaking use them.

This is a seventh Ed codex, if you choose to not utilize the tools GW gave you in seventh edition then that is why you are having problems.....

7th isn't "Designed" so much as it is a marketing plan with miniatures. People are not going to use multiple CADs to horde up, they'll use the minimum troops for each CAD and the maximum HQs, so they can stuff each unit with as many characters and special rules as possible. GW thinks they have figured out how to sell more box of Ork Boyz, really all they've done is sell character models. Assuming most players don't already have them.

Bull.

They design the codex with the current ruleset and units in mind. Most people I talk to do not utilize like HALF the rules for the current book. (It is new, so something can be said for that.)

I know this, using this codex to it's FULL potential, not neutering it with fifth edition B.S. will help alot of you out.

Flyers, supers, lords of war, formations, etc. Stopping whining and use them. (Or keep getting owned by Tau and Eldar players, it's your choice I guess.)

This type of stuff was never an issue in 3rd or earlier! A WD unit would come out, "Cool! Lets play that and try it out"

 sfshilo wrote:


They design the codex with the current ruleset and units in mind.

The demon chariot was made in 6th where it could not move and shoot
the DA flyer had missile lock in 6th when it had no missiles that scatter, and even in 7th it's removed from the model so it doesn't apply still. (Does anything actually have missile lock?)
Look back at Necrons released last for 5th. Are you going to tell me they didn't design it for 6th edition?

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
A few people Ive talked to agree that the Day One DLC argument doesn't have a lot of weight. For one it makes sense to have it separate if GW doesn't want model-less units in their Codexes. Second, They're just glad they still have access to it even though they never fielded them in 6th. And a buck or two to get a new unit isn't that cad when your just using spare parts you have lying around to do a Kitbash unit.

Ah, but you see, they're wrong about that! For some reason, GW doesn't seem to grasp this one important fact- their models can be used as things they weren't originally sold as!

This was the issue with some of Chapterhouse's conversion kits, this is the issue with the Looted Wagon. They don't seem to recognize that, hey, guess what, every tank they sell is a Looted Wagon.


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Gleath wrote:
The codex isn't fun. There are some lists I think will work it's just the army does not feel like orks.

I've been trying several different list so far and what seems to work really well is 'eavy armor.
I gave the books formation a try with all boyz inside Trukk's and sporting 'eavy armor.
The list worked amazing in three separate games.
Now obviously you need to round it out a bit but it did work... However it seems very un-Orky.

Different kinds of Orks. I'll admit, losing some of the interesting randomness takes a bit of the fun out of it, as does losing the Deffrolla's "Krush it all!" ruleset. However, interestingly enough this new codex seems to be more in line with certain styles of play- especially those who prefer heavier armour. Orks aren't just about the Green Tide. They're also about being Kunnin', and they're about bein' Flash, and they're about bein' Fast, and they're about bein' the biggest and the strongest and havin' the most Teef.

This Codex could easily have been called "Kodex, Bad Moons" with how it's layed out. Plastic Meganobz, cheaper Battlewagons (I ran gunwagons anyways), slightly better Flash Gitz (which I also ran), more vehicles and more armour and more shooty stuff.


The one thing I'm a bit peeved about is the "Bubbles" thing. I mean seriously?