Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok so after reading up on comments, I decided to add my first impressions and input as a day 1 launch from the new Ork codex in a Batrep:



I've had another game since then, and that is also a Battle Report, which is currently being edited and uploading as we speak..

Everyone else except Eldar, Tau, Space marines and Deamons

So your group has gaping double standards? Not really anything that can be said....

 Multimoog wrote:
I've got another Ghaz supplement question. In the rule that states you must take and issue challenges, it specifically states that your Warlord has to do it. Is there anything that says a Warboss included in a Ghaz formation HAS to be your Warlord? If I take a Green Tide, the Warboss included in the unit doesn't have to be my army's Warlord?

Correct.

The only seeming exception is "The Council of Waagh!", where Ghazghkull must be your Warlord since he has to make the Warlord rolls for his extra two Warlord traits from his book.

blaktoof wrote:
in 7th you don't pick your warlord from the HQs in a specific detachment.

You pick your Warlord, and your warlords detachment becomes your primary detachment.

Unless there is a rule stating "your warlord may not be from this detachment" or "this model must be your warlord if you take it in your army" you can make any HQ the warlord.

Since I don't have the Ghaz supplement on hand, I'm still going on secondhand accounts and didn't know whether or not the Green Tide formation required that unit's Warboss to be your Warlord. I usually make my Ork Warlord be a Big Mek w/SAG on a backfield Skyshield in a unit of Kannons stuffed with extra grot crew to make it difficult for my opponent to score Slay the Warlord (4++, T7, tons of Look Out Sir)

I think the dex, (while not great) isn't as terribad as people have been be-moaning it to be. I see some actual use of Unbound here. (Without bringing 10-riptide list bullgak) Mek gunz look cool. The Killkannon went down by essentially 10 points so that's a small plus. Tanksbustas are useable now. As are Buggies. Deffcoptas got quite a bit better and the Orktifacts are pretty nice.

All in all, not TOO bad. But still not great. I just hope Tau gets this treatment. (Heh heh heh...)

I agree with Overlord Thraka. I'm not fond of all the changes and I definitely miss our old Mob Rule, but there were enough positibe changes to compensate for this. Our Speed Freaks got vastly better, Choppa Boys are useable now (Free Stikkbombs, mini-fleet, and Run/Charge are a huge buff,) and our Relics are fun while not being OP. (I doubt I'll ever play an Ork Game without one, but never the same one.)
Our characters are definitely our forte. We don't have anyone with Chapter Master level power, but we can get huge buffs or deadly beasts for reasonable prices. Big Meks provide invulns or else cause hefty damage, Painboys are excellent all around, and a couple of Warbosses on bikes are wrecking balls that can vaporise tanks and non-CC enemies in seconds.

Do I wish Ghazzy was either stronger or not a LoW? Yeah. Do I wish Cyborks gave an invuln? Yeah. But all in all, it's an improvement.

Dragonzord wrote:

scimitar wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 WarOne wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

Necrons maybe. But Orks no.

imagine 180+ boyz with FNP... god that would be the most broken thing ever.

Its not broken at all. Iron hands marines get 6+ FNP as a chapter tactic without being even close to OP.

Do iron hands get 6 point models in large numbers?

1. Necrons with FNP would be very fluffy, and awesome. As well as having the HQs having IWND. Sadly, It would never happen.
2. The Orks getting a FNP 6+ would not have been that bad. And you can't compare Orks to Iron Hands. Are Orks the same as Veterans on Bikes with a 3+/3++ and FNP 6+ with Grav guns? No, not even close. Plus, a Battle cannon would still ruin their day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
I think the dex, (while not great) isn't as terribad as people have been be-moaning it to be. I see some actual use of Unbound here. (Without bringing 10-riptide list bullgak) Mek gunz look cool. The Killkannon went down by essentially 10 points so that's a small plus. Tanksbustas are useable now. As are Buggies. Deffcoptas got quite a bit better and the Orktifacts are pretty nice.

All in all, not TOO bad. But still not great. I just hope Tau gets this treatment. (Heh heh heh...)

Here's to Tau and Eldar getting the Tyranid/Ork treatment! *holds up glass*

But no, the codex is by no means that BAD. It's still very playable, it's just, some of the changes they did were just weird, and it's less flavorful.

Prks almost DID get armywide FNP in the new Painboy. Having played it I can assure everyone that it definitely makes a huge difference to have painboyz in big Boyz blobs.

 Multimoog wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
in 7th you don't pick your warlord from the HQs in a specific detachment.

You pick your Warlord, and your warlords detachment becomes your primary detachment.

Unless there is a rule stating "your warlord may not be from this detachment" or "this model must be your warlord if you take it in your army" you can make any HQ the warlord.

Since I don't have the Ghaz supplement on hand, I'm still going on secondhand accounts and didn't know whether or not the Green Tide formation required that unit's Warboss to be your Warlord. I usually make my Ork Warlord be a Big Mek w/SAG on a backfield Skyshield in a unit of Kannons stuffed with extra grot crew to make it difficult for my opponent to score Slay the Warlord (4++, T7, tons of Look Out Sir)

As I said before, the formation warboss does not have to be the warlord, but he does need to be the warlord if you want to use the stampede special rule (waaagh every turn). It says in the formation under stampede "If the formations warboss is your warlord you may call a waaagh each and every turn after the first"

 Billagio wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
in 7th you don't pick your warlord from the HQs in a specific detachment.

You pick your Warlord, and your warlords detachment becomes your primary detachment.

Unless there is a rule stating "your warlord may not be from this detachment" or "this model must be your warlord if you take it in your army" you can make any HQ the warlord.

Since I don't have the Ghaz supplement on hand, I'm still going on secondhand accounts and didn't know whether or not the Green Tide formation required that unit's Warboss to be your Warlord. I usually make my Ork Warlord be a Big Mek w/SAG on a backfield Skyshield in a unit of Kannons stuffed with extra grot crew to make it difficult for my opponent to score Slay the Warlord (4++, T7, tons of Look Out Sir)

As I said before, the formation warboss does not have to be the warlord, but he does need to be the warlord if you want to use the stampede special rule (waaagh every turn). It says in the formation under stampede "If the formations warboss is your warlord you may call a waaagh each and every turn after the first"

Not being able to Waaagh every turn isn't a huge deal with GT. You need to be in charge range of something to use it anyway, and by the time you are, you'll be able to spread boyz out so they'll be in range to charge something else on subsequent turns.

Waaaghpower wrote:
I agree with Overlord Thraka. I'm not fond of all the changes and I definitely miss our old Mob Rule, but there were enough positibe changes to compensate for this. Our Speed Freaks got vastly better, Choppa Boys are useable now (Free Stikkbombs, mini-fleet, and Run/Charge are a huge buff,) and our Relics are fun while not being OP. (I doubt I'll ever play an Ork Game without one, but never the same one.)
Our characters are definitely our forte. We don't have anyone with Chapter Master level power, but we can get huge buffs or deadly beasts for reasonable prices. Big Meks provide invulns or else cause hefty damage, Painboys are excellent all around, and a couple of Warbosses on bikes are wrecking balls that can vaporise tanks and non-CC enemies in seconds.

Do I wish Ghazzy was either stronger or not a LoW? Yeah. Do I wish Cyborks gave an invuln? Yeah. But all in all, it's an improvement.

Not to harp on about this but bikes got cheaper, yes, but lost objective secured which is a huge rule. There are a lot of positives in the book. The negatives are mostly about being able to build an army you like/ already had built and still have it be legal.

And the answer of 'just play unbound' isn't an answer. The codex must work in the context of the core rules/ rules as they are going to be played first and then be built out from there. Plus, even if someone does allow you to play unbound who then doesn't bring 8 Riptides or something back, you're going to lose over half the missions because no one in your army can hold an objective. Why should you be punished like that?

Why should you get got because you wanted to bring an army you used to be able to bring?

 Celtic Strike wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
I agree with Overlord Thraka. I'm not fond of all the changes and I definitely miss our old Mob Rule, but there were enough positibe changes to compensate for this. Our Speed Freaks got vastly better, Choppa Boys are useable now (Free Stikkbombs, mini-fleet, and Run/Charge are a huge buff,) and our Relics are fun while not being OP. (I doubt I'll ever play an Ork Game without one, but never the same one.)
Our characters are definitely our forte. We don't have anyone with Chapter Master level power, but we can get huge buffs or deadly beasts for reasonable prices. Big Meks provide invulns or else cause hefty damage, Painboys are excellent all around, and a couple of Warbosses on bikes are wrecking balls that can vaporise tanks and non-CC enemies in seconds.

Do I wish Ghazzy was either stronger or not a LoW? Yeah. Do I wish Cyborks gave an invuln? Yeah. But all in all, it's an improvement.

Not to harp on about this but bikes got cheaper, yes, but lost objective secured which is a huge rule. There are a lot of positives in the book. The negatives are mostly about being able to build an army you like/ already had built and still have it be legal.

And the answer of 'just play unbound' isn't an answer. The codex must work in the context of the core rules/ rules as they are going to be played first and then be built out from there. Plus, even if someone does allow you to play unbound who then doesn't bring 8 Riptides or something back, you're going to lose over half the missions because no one in your army can hold an objective. Why should you be punished like that?

Why should you get got because you wanted to bring an army you used to be able to bring?

To be fair, Orks don't get Objective Secured anyways. Want to get the Hammer of Wrath on big charges thing? No Objective Secured. Want to take any Ork FOC? No Objective Secured. If you're using the Ork setup at all, you're not getting Objective Secured.
I certainly wish we could take Warbikers as troops, just for the sake of bringing a Speed Freaks army that doesn't use unbound (Since I know a lot of people refuse to play Unbound because they only allow some of the rules to matter), but it's not an insurmountable problem. Clearly, GW is pushing players into using Unbound for fluffy lists, for better or worse.
Then again, you can always use Forge World rules and get Warbikers as troops anyways.

Unbound won't be used for fluffy lists. It'll be used for 6 Riptides or 5 WraithKnights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Waaaghpower wrote:

To be fair, Orks don't get Objective Secured anyways. Want to get the Hammer of Wrath on big charges thing? No Objective Secured. Want to take any Ork FOC? No Objective Secured. If you're using the Ork setup at all, you're not getting Objective Secured.
I certainly wish we could take Warbikers as troops, just for the sake of bringing a Speed Freaks army that doesn't use unbound (Since I know a lot of people refuse to play Unbound because they only allow some of the rules to matter), but it's not an insurmountable problem. Clearly, GW is pushing players into using Unbound for fluffy lists, for better or worse.
Then again, you can always use Forge World rules and get Warbikers as troops anyways.

This, this is exactly the wrong attitude to have. Saying that it's okay that one part of your rules sucks because another part of your rules sucks is bogus. Saying that you can make up for a hack job by purchasing another product is ignorant. It's like having a person cut off one of your legs and then thank them for not cutting off both of them instead of saying; 'no, you're not cutting off either of my legs.'

You should demand a higher quality product. One GW has already proven they can release.

6 Riptides or 6 wrathknights is actually a terrible list, simply because it doesn't have objective secured.

Your game against those armies won't be fun, but if you're troops are objective secured, you will win in the end.

Also you have to understand that while riptides were an offensive powerhouse last edition, without buffmanders... they lack the punch they used to have. They're more about being tough than being the real utlimate power devastating.

5 wrathknights can't kill 60 combat squaded space marines before the end of turn 6 or 7.


Oh, and again, the codex is terrible. Who in their right mind thought it would be fun to watch your army kill itself?

Oh wait, fantasy skaven have been doing it forever. Horray...

Exactly, I've been droning on about the loss of Objective secured from the start of this and no one's brought it up. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Goresaw wrote:
6 Riptides or 6 wrathknights is actually a terrible list, simply because it doesn't have objective secured.

Your game against those armies won't be fun, but if you're troops are objective secured, you will win in the end.

Also you have to understand that while riptides were an offensive powerhouse last edition, without buffmanders... they lack the punch they used to have. They're more about being tough than being the real utlimate power devastating.

5 wrathknights can't kill 60 combat squaded space marines before the end of turn 6 or 7.


Oh, and again, the codex is terrible. Who in their right mind thought it would be fun to watch your army kill itself?

Oh wait, fantasy skaven have been doing it forever. Horray...

Fantasy Skaven are random, but even they are a top tier army to make up for it (for the longest time Skaven were THE top tier army).

GW made this book lackluster, and underpowered. Kind of like Orcs and Goblins.... Wait....What?

Thats true. Fantasy skaven is a gamble. Big risk but big reward.

Orks just have a big risk. Take a morale check? Hurt yourself. Take a pinning check? Hurt yourself. Pay for potential to get 3 shots? Get 1 rather than potentially get 6.



Thats another fundamental problem with the book. We pay points to try to overcome our weaknesses, while other books just pay increase their strength. Pay points for a boss pole to try to mitigate our terrible weaknesses. It doesn't make us strong. It just makes us less weak. On the other hand, a space marine pays for scout, or rerolls. It makes the strong, stronger.

Can we stop with the belly aching over the mob rule. IT IS NOT THAT BAD.

How many times do we even take a morale and pinning check ? Once a phase. And if, and I do mean IF, we fail it kicks in. Even with LD 7 thats only a %50 chance to fail.

If we do Fail, we take d6 S4 hits. Lets, see if we roll 6 hits, thats on average 3 wounds. Most boys mobs( at least mine) will have FNP, so that will save 1. Loosing 2 models so pass a morale isnt that big of a deal.

Stop wanting your point and click ignore all morale mobs back.

On the topic of Not random any more. We have more random things than we use too.

Killer kanz. THEY DID NOT GO UP. Rokkit Kanz are the same points and Mega blastas went down 5. Only grotzookas /skorchas went up.

No Invul will kill your warboss. Nope think and play smart. A boyz units has A nob , probably a mek and a painboy too if you got the extra HQ ones. Have them accept the challenge and have the warboss wipe the squad. Soon as the enemy character is solo, he challenges accept with next character, then kill him. Due to new challenge rules, if he is last guy left he can be attacked by the squad.

I hoping to read about people who like the book, like i do. I just played a game with the new book last night. Guess how many boyz I lost to the mob rule and I run 30 man blobs................................................................. 2, just 2.

I've been playing 40k since rogue trader, when did ork players get to whiney. =P

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:


No Invul will kill your warboss. Nope think and play smart.

You would ALMOST think that a tactical strategy game would be more rewarding when the players use strategy and tactics. ALMOST. Apparently the real goal of 40K is to table your opponent with the least amount of thought necessary.


.............


Which is why I'm taking a Green Tide LOLOLOLOLOLO WAAAAAGGHHHHH it'll be like placing a Brillo pad down on the board and scouring the enemy away

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Can we stop with the belly aching over the mob rule. IT IS NOT THAT BAD.

How many times do we even take a morale and pinning check ? Once a phase. And if, and I do mean IF, we fail it kicks in. Even with LD 7 thats only a %50 chance to fail.

If we do Fail, we take d6 S4 hits. Lets, see if we roll 6 hits, thats on average 3 wounds. Most boys mobs( at least mine) will have FNP, so that will save 1. Loosing 2 models so pass a morale isnt that big of a deal.

The rule doesn't seem as much as weak (although it is that too) but I can imagine it to be really annoying to play. Roll dice, check how many Orks you have and whether there is a character, consult table, roll wounds, allocate wounds randomly (!), roll saves...it just seems so tiresome and unnecessarily complicated.

I can imagine it not being that big a deal for a Green tide army, but what about Trukk boyz, Lootas and Burnas?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overlord Thraka wrote:

All in all, not TOO bad. But still not great. I just hope Tau gets this treatment. (Heh heh heh...)

We already did. The new Tau codex screwed over nearly all Tau old timers by destroying everything which was fun or cool in the army. It is only powergamers and bandwagoners who like the new codex.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
My favorite is:
"That unit isn't bad, you should try it out first."
"I have. I've played several games and I just can't justify it anymore. They are bad."
"You must not have been using them right. They're great."

And on the flipside:

"I use this unit all the time and it works fine for me"
"Well, your opponents must suck"

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Can we stop with the belly aching over the mob rule. IT IS NOT THAT BAD.

How many times do we even take a morale and pinning check ? Once a phase. And if, and I do mean IF, we fail it kicks in. Even with LD 7 thats only a %50 chance to fail.

If we do Fail, we take d6 S4 hits. Lets, see if we roll 6 hits, thats on average 3 wounds. Most boys mobs( at least mine) will have FNP, so that will save 1. Loosing 2 models so pass a morale isnt that big of a deal.

Stop wanting your point and click ignore all morale mobs back.

Yeah, I do agree actually. I don't like the new Mob rule and am struggling to justify it from a fluff point of view. Taking hits in order to pass a Morale Check would probably be better as a mechanic for the Bosspole, in my opinion.

That said, I really don't think it's that bad from a gameplay perspective. As Dakkafang said, it only happens when you do take a Morale check. Smart play can help to minimize this. There's not much we can do about massed shooting, put prioritising Pinning units and/or picking combats carefully goes along way. There's one Warlord trait which allows you to re-roll Morale Checks near the Warlord and another that makes units temporarily fearless, if you've taken a Warboss and, in most instances, you have a re-roll to try and get one of these Warlord traits. There's a chance to auto-pass in combat and Bosspoles help to minimise the worst results. It's only really bad when you're under 10 models, which was when we weren't fearless in the old book anyway. On top of that, D6 S4 hits really isn't that bad. On average that's 3.5 hits, 1.75 wounds, resulting in about 1.5 dead boyz, in a normal squad. That's not factoring in FNP, or any superior armour, which seems to be more popular on normal boyz and is standard on Warbikers/MANZ etc.

It's certainly worse, but hardly the end of the world.

I like the book. Nothing super special about it (the change from the previous 3rd edition book to the 4th edition book was huge - this one is a tweak) but it is a solid book with some pretty decent point costs.

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Also, good luck being able to actually find someone who will let you field a Stompa. Cos they won't. Also, most people don't have stompas. So, yay, they gave you something that's cool but costs hundreds of dollars to use and you'll have to use it because the rest of the codex is naff.

Actually, a Stompa is only $10 more than an Orkanaut. It's cheaper than a Knight or a Lord of Skulls. I have one from when it was first released, but could easily add another for more fun in Apoc games, or just to take two in a 2000 point 40K game because I can.

But yeah, I can't really find anyone who will play against it, even though it's now in the codex, and Lord of War rules are in the rulebook, and you can use them in a Battle-Forged list.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
Can we stop with the belly aching over the mob rule. IT IS NOT THAT BAD.

How many times do we even take a morale and pinning check ? Once a phase. And if, and I do mean IF, we fail it kicks in. Even with LD 7 thats only a %50 chance to fail.

If we do Fail, we take d6 S4 hits. Lets, see if we roll 6 hits, thats on average 3 wounds. Most boys mobs( at least mine) will have FNP, so that will save 1. Loosing 2 models so pass a morale isnt that big of a deal.

Stop wanting your point and click ignore all morale mobs back.

On the topic of Not random any more. We have more random things than we use too.

Killer kanz. THEY DID NOT GO UP. Rokkit Kanz are the same points and Mega blastas went down 5. Only grotzookas /skorchas went up.

No Invul will kill your warboss. Nope think and play smart. A boyz units has A nob , probably a mek and a painboy too if you got the extra HQ ones. Have them accept the challenge and have the warboss wipe the squad. Soon as the enemy character is solo, he challenges accept with next character, then kill him. Due to new challenge rules, if he is last guy left he can be attacked by the squad.

I hoping to read about people who like the book, like i do. I just played a game with the new book last night. Guess how many boyz I lost to the mob rule and I run 30 man blobs................................................................. 2, just 2.

I've been playing 40k since rogue trader, when did ork players get to whiney. =P

I agree, I like the codex, I was just hoping that they didnt nerf some of the things that didnt really need nerfing, like kans morale (wat), deff rolla (would have been fine at d3 hits for 10pts instead of d6 for 20) and the invul thing. Like you said its not THAT big of a deal, but unnecessary for them to remove it. In a few months we will be hearing about how orks dont do well in tournies because no multiple CAD. Well thats too bad that TOs dont let you use all the rules for some reason, but ill be just fine krumping my friends with a 100+ mob of fnp ws5 fearless boyz backed up with some of the best artillery.

True anecdote: we kinda sorta lost a member of our gaming group over this codex. Despite everyone's advice to just save all his stuff, telling him using the old codex would be a-ok with all of us, he put it all up for sale at the flgs...about 7K worth IIRC.

Sad for us, but maybe he was just getting sick and tired of 40k in general.

 jasper76 wrote:
True anecdote: we kinda sorta lost a member of our gaming group over this codex. Despite everyone's advice to just save all his stuff, telling him using the old codex would be a-ok with all of us, he put it all up for sale at the flgs...about 7K worth IIRC.

Sad for us, but maybe he was just getting sick and tired of 40k in general.

That really sucks to hear man, sorry about that. My friend hasn't played any games using the codex yet (Grrrr, I've been waiting to fight it), but if he doesn't like what he sees, he's either converting over to fantasy with me, or quitting all together. I hope it doesn't come to the second option.

After flipping through my book and getting info for myself, I'm not really that upset by this book. I've heard WAY to much complaining about how we can't really manipulate our FoC anymore, when that doesn't MATTER as much anymore. Everything in this edition is scoring, and as such, we no longer need Troop Bikes or Nobz. If people wanted Super Scoring Bikes/Nobz/MANz, then things would just be stupid. Just slap as many squads of MANZ on objectives, and they can steal objectives away from other units in the process. It wouldn't be fun, it would be stupid...even for me, and I loved Troop Bikes.

I believe certain builds are still viable, we just need to tweak them a little. Our toys got a lot cheaper overall this edition. My beloved Kopters are cheaper, and get free Rokkit upgrades. That's HUGE for me. That allows me to run more Boyz than I could before, or maybe even get to fit in an extra Bike or two along the way. Speaking of Bikes...18 per!? That's AWESOME! I can field so many MORE now! And they are still just as nasty as before, even if we do lose Exhaust Cloud buff. But, Jink does the same, and gives better when we boost. Losing the 1 BS shouldn't hurt that much with Twin Linked anyway. Not to mention those Bikes SHOULD be stuck in anyway to keep fire off of everything else. A single Klaw in a Biker squad wrecks things. A single Nob has taken down walkers and tanks by himself. But now, he can do it even cheaper than before, allowing more target saturation. Using my Bikes for scoring was incredibly rare, even when they were Troops. I only wanted them as Troops so I could field MORE.

We are now the only army to be able to move, run, and assault, a rule that I wanted back immediately after we lost it. Sure, we only get it for the Waaagh, but we have options for infinite of those. Plus, we get to reroll charge dice normally, and our run dice during the Waagh. These are HUGE boons for our CC units. And I for one wont be sticking my nose up at this. I love CC, and I'm now a happy Git.

Our KFF is now an Invul. This seals a huge weakness we had before, despite the nerf to it only working on models touched, not units touched. Any Ork player who claims this wasn't cheese before is a fool. Even running 1 KFF in a squad of Trukks, and giving a fat mob of Trukks cover saves was kind of silly. But it can still be done with the new KFF if you play with the Mek on a Bike, but now...its an Invul save, which trumps cover any day of the week.

One complaint I've heard was lack of STR D weaponry. Get the Hell out of here. Str D only belongs in Apoc, not the normal game. I get pissed as it is when my opponent hauls in their Imperial Knights without informing me. I don't care if they want to use them, but at least alert me so I can plan accordingly. And thats basically what this codex comes down too. Planning. Not always easy to do, but in casual games (Which is all I play, no tournies for this guy), I can typically predict what each player will bring, because they are predictable. So now, I've gotten used to bringing enough Rokkits to drop those Knights to their knees.

Our Walkers might be viable again with the KFF invul bubbles. Kanz, though more expensive, might be able to do the Kan wall a bit more effectivly. Dredds got cheaper too, though I believe the Morkanaught/Gorkanaught are going to swiftly replace them on the table. I already know my Morkanaught is going to be a staple from this point on.

And yes, there are a few legit things that did bug me. I was annoyed by the change in Ramshackle. Will I cry over it? No, but it seemed like a sad change to something that was fluffy, and still functional without being borked.

Our Tankbusters...they aren't a JOKE anymore. And they got CHEAPER! I'm loving this! I never invested in the models because they had the worst rules. Now, I'll actually use them!

Grotsnik isn't a joke anymore either! Rampage!? Nice!

Painboyz can go ANYWHERE. 5+ FNP wherever you want it!? It's about darn time.

No invul saves in CC did bug me, but I'll work around it like I always do. I know people seem to dislike supplements, but, the more I get to work with, the better. Maybe something someday soon will give us the tools again.

Mob rule seemed like an unneeded change, but I havn't gotten to play test it hard yet. I do like that it gives my small squads a chance to actually stick around as well, and the granting of Bosspole to MANz was a great boon as well. Extra hits isn't something I rejoice, but the units that needed this the most can typically shrug off the hits well enough. Ard Armor, while a little costly, can also help shake off more of the hits as well, especially since we are no longer restricted to only one squad of Ard Boyz (which always seemed like a silly restriction).

Our fliers got both nerfs and buffs. Dakka Jets no longer spew a bunch of shots during a Waaaagh, but seems reasonable considering we now have the potential for infinate Waaaaghs, and that could potentially cause a lot of irritation for opponents, might even be broken, but we might never know now. Our plane's bombs got a lot better as well, and our Blitzas got better odds not to kill themselves as well, which is nice to see. Plus, the fliers are actually IN our codex now, and that alone is nice.

Ghazkull's changes were an interesting move. Not sure how I feel about it. To be honest, my Ghaz model has been a stand in for a MegaBoss anyway ever since his PoW rule was changed. But, with his supplement coming up, we may indeed see his true colors. His unique formation seems pretty decent, if not costly. I'll be willing to give it a try once my book arrives.

TLR - We lost stuff, but we GAIN a lot of it as well. We now just have to adapt and see what cool things we can do now. I'm going to turn to a more walker based army, now more than ever. My Naught is going to cascade the army in a bubble, and free up an HQ slot so I don't need the Big Mek (Unless I take the Big Mek elsewhere for a different role, but now doesn't need to waste points on a KFF, as the Naught's bubble is superior). I'll be using Kanz to run up the front, with foot slogging Boyz in tow, Trukks with Manz and Boyz or Tankbusters in them rushing up, while Bikes or Kopters come in through the wood work.

We lost a little, but we gained a LOT in the end.

Melevolence wrote:


No invul saves in CC did bug me, but I'll work around it like I always do. I know people seem to dislike supplements, but, the more I get to work with, the better. Maybe something someday soon will give us the tools again.

.

That was a big thing for me. This army is all about getting into melee and drowning things in bodies/attacks. But, taking away ANY form of melee Inv? Now my hive tyrant will eat a Warboss for lunch without even trying. It's really sad.