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Ok so i am aware that this list doesnt fit the mould of most eldar lists. I am not after a major rework. Just advice on specific weaknesses/things to be aware of or things to swap or add in. Also for some reason i am struggling using jetbikes well. Also this list will be an eldar exodite counts as.
I dont expect to win tournaments but i do hope to be competitive in most games
Dragon council.

Autarch
Shard of anaris
Jetbike
Banshee mask. 130pts

Farseer
Jetbike
Stone of anath
Singing spear 135pts

10 warlocks (5 join the dragon council 1 in each jetbike squad)
Jetbike
Singing spears 550 pts

5 squads 9 jetbikes
2 shurican cannon 865pts

Crimson hunter 160
Crimson hunter 160

2000pts

Looks good. Consider cutting a few singing spears to get an exarch hunter.

Consider dropping all 10 spears from warlocks and taking another cannon on each bike units.

All in all looks like fun, good luck!

You're struggling to use jetbikes well because after about 15-20 jetbikes you start to get diminishing returns on their main selling point - speed. 55 jetbikes will take a lot of table space, too much to make full use of tactics and strategies usually available to EJB. In essence, you're nerfing your own units by adding too much of a good thing.

What would you replace 30 of the jetbikes with to make the list work. Extra points if you can fit the exodite army theme i an after. thought about removing the singing spears.. will fiddle around and see what happens.


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Considered rangers for fluff reasons but from a game perspective they seem bad. Static weak unit that doesnt really support the rest and if the jetbikes arw doing their job the rangers will end up isolated.

I know you mentioned you wanted to stray from the beaten path... but your list is horrible.

You're sinking a ton of points in an unoptimized nerfed council, and the rest in Jetbikes that can't do squat except turboboost.

At 2000 points, you don't have any credible threat against any type of army imo.

morgoth wrote:
I know you mentioned you wanted to stray from the beaten path... but your list is horrible.

You're sinking a ton of points in an unoptimized nerfed council, and the rest in Jetbikes that can't do squat except turboboost.

At 2000 points, you don't have any credible threat against any type of army imo.

Lol. What would you suggest, 6+ Jink Nerfed Wave Serpents.....



Ok, its interesting, I'm not sure that a single Farseer is enough here for your small Jetseer Council. I know you want the Autarch as you are going to reserve everything but the Council and then bring everything on with a 2+, but I think you need the 2nd Farseer to make this work. With 2 you have a 75% chance of getting any particular power. You also have Warlord Traits to try and get reserve modification.

I would also sift the jetbikes around a bit to get 6 units, and keep a couple more Warlocks with the Council. Or Self ally or Dual CAD if allowed and split the Jetbikes up to get as many more Scoring units as you can. With a decent Council for board control, the EJBs can really have a run of the objectives.

A Crimson Hunter Exarch would be useful and is worth the points. If you Self Ally or Dual CAD you can get two!

As written the Bikes put out 30 S6 Shots and 11 S9 Singing Spears plus the two Crimson Hunters, which isn't terrible. The whole army is extremely mobile and most of that mobility is in Objective Secured. You will run out of real estate with all of those bikes, but it still a viable option. I would caution you, with only a small council on the board at the start of the game, if you do not get 1st Turn, you are risking an alpha strike which could cripple your army hence why I suggested a couple of more Warlocks in the Coucil and using the EJB squads without one to split up and become more MSU.

Morgoth I appreciate you taking the time to respond however if you believe the list is horrible I would appreciate any advice on making it less horrible.
Zagman, I wanted 2 farseers and an autarch but didnt want to ally with myself, I may ally with iyanden, taking a farseer from that army as most places dont allow dual Cad. I know I am putting all my eggs in one basket. But big squads of jetbikes at least on paper seem to be able to deal with most things. (50 obj secured jetbikes with tl shuricans for inf, plenty of strength 6 for transports and some spears for tougher things.) Although the new veh damage table will cause me plenty of problems.
I agree with alot of your suggestions the problem for me is finding the points, i may have to sub the autarch out for the baron altbough i realllly want to avoid that.

Well you cannot ally with Iyanden until they FAQ it.

As for the list as I have said, it isn't that bad... Its fast and has good shooting and is 99% objective secured ( I don't believe the warlocks can hold objectives because their are not an actual slot?).

BAO and Nova are allowing Self Allying, which means most tournaments will be allowing it. I know that Farsight Enclaves stills has it's Allies Language which makes self Allying legal, don't recall if Iyanden has the same clause.

I think you are better going Dual Farseers than Farseer Autarch, you can always roll looking for the +1 a Reserve a Rolls to counter the loss. If you Self Ally or not, I'd still split the bikes to get two smaller squads, and put the 6th Warlock with the Council. Would only require a couple of Jetbikes dropped.

Nova FAQ, which along with the BAO set precedent, has stated that RAW you need to split Warlocks off into their respective squads before they roll Psychic Powers. Just and FYI.

I wouldn't worry about the vehicle damage changes, with Shurikens and Singing Spears you aren't blowing them up anyway, just HP strip them like normal.

I actually like your list but I think like others have said 55 Jetbikes may be to many. Cutting it down and adding more "options" may be the way to go.

Yeah, maybe 3 full squads of jetbikes and 2/3 min squads of jetbikes for obj grabbing? That allows me to place a couple more warlocks in the seer squad.Problem with dual farseers is you miss out on assault grenades. Does anyone hear use large jetbike squads? How do you use them

Sorry for the extra late reply. I use 9-man WRJ squads, 6+ Shining Spears squads, etc. Not always at the same time, of course.

9-man WRJ squads are unwieldy. First of, you take 3 cannons for some decent mobile dakka, then you take a Warlock for a 2+ jink save and finally (this isn't required, but it's very helpful), they need a LD boost, usually in the form of an IC. Now you have 11 models that need to take DT tests every single time they move through cover. Also, 11 large models are impossible to hide, take up a huge footprint and if you jink, you snapshot your cannons next turn. If you don't, they aren't all that survivable.

I'd take 3 6-man squads with 2 cannons each and a Warlock attached and 2-3 3-man squads without upgrades (keep these cheap, add a cannon only if points allow). The larger jetbike squads are your wolf pack. Usually, they should stay close together and act as one unit, using their speed to focus down a tough MC, TEQ, MEQ or GEQ. They're multipurpose and that's great. Always keep your 2 other squads behind one that was forced to jink, so they all gain cover saves and you don't have to enter terrain and risk losing a model to Dangerous terrain test.

As far as allies or no allies goes, personally, I'd take a Baron and a Venom with 5 Haywire Wyches (my last game a squad of them took down an Imperial Knight (he had 4 HP left). After that, they penned an Annihilation Barge and took 2 tactical objectives, before they died) and Grisly Trophies. Grisly Trophies are amazing because they let you re-roll both LD tests for Perils (absolutely VITAL on Warlocks) and morale/pinning test. It also alleviates the need for a LD 10 HQ in those squads. Rerollable LD8 is super nice to have. Baron himself gives you H&R, 1+ to go first, Stealth, Defensive/Offensive grenades and a 2++ Shadowfield. Not to mention he has 5 S6 attacks on the charge. Always worth it.

Speaking of the Baron, the Council does benefit greatly from him, but I don't think the Council is the way to go in 7th, unless you go all in (8+ Warlocks, 2 Farseers, Baron). An alternative to the Council is a squad of Shining Spears. For less points than 5 bikelocks, you can get 8 Shining Spears with an Exarch with Star Lance (S8 AP2, Lance), Monster Hunter and Hit and Run. Every Shining Spear also comes equipped with Skilled Rider (means no pesky DT tests and +1 to Jink). The squad is quite brutal. With Baron, they have 2+ Jink save and since Jink doesn't prevent assaulting, they care very little about the loss of firepower (TL Shuricats help with that too). All in all, they've received several buffs with 7th edition. They're also not reliant on psychic powers to do damage, although Fortune and Invisibility puts god-mode on them, just as with any other unit.

Regarding HQs, opposite of what I've read here, I believe 1 Farseer is worth it, but 2 aren't, not without using other psykers as batteries, which means they won't be casting spells of their own (and you really should be casting those Warlock Conceals/Protects on your bikes). 1 Farseer can get up to 4 powers and generates on average 6 WC. Statistically, you should be able to cast 3 WC 1 spells with that more often than not (won't always go off, some will get denied, but that's why you have the Spirit Stone relic and the Runes of Witnessing, right?). 2 Farseers get up to 8 spells and only 9 WC average per turn. They're only worth it if you absolutely must have that one power that makes your army work, but Eldar don't need such gimmicks, at least not yet (we'll see how the codex ages; of course, if you do get Invisibility, it's amazing), so I'd rather take an Autarch for +1/-1 reserve modification and 5 WS6 I6 S6 AP3 attacks, plus a BS6 Fusion Gun, plus Banshees Mask (the most cost-effective upgrade in the entire codex, imho), plus 5 Fleshbane, Rending, ID attacks in a challenge with the Shard of Anaris (not to mention making any squad you want Fearless). Shard can be taken on a Farseer, but they're naturally more expensive and they're less effective with only 3 attacks on the charge.

To summarize: Instead of taking 5 big units of WRJ, I'd take smaller units and take 1 big unit of Shining Spears. Since they don't care about Jink's disadvantages and have Skilled Rider, the fact that they've a big footprint has no disadvantage for them, in fact, that makes it easier to corner your opponents and make it easy for your wolf pack to shred them apart.

Sorry for the wall-of-text and hope it will be helpful!

Araenion thank you very much for the wall of text... alooot to think about was concerned about the resilience of 6 jb. But i willsee how it handles with proxies. The more i think about it the more i think im going to have to ally eldar and dark eldar. The rerolla to ld are pretty important for ld8.

Mostly agree with Araenion, except about HQs, esp. with SS squad. With 8 possible powers you can game for both fortune and forewarning. You'll be wanting guide/prescience anyway so staying on these tables makes sense. With the baron this gives you 2+ Jink, 3+ armor, 4++ rerollables. Throw in star lance and the AP2 lance from iydan and you can go toe to toe with nearly any unit out there.

Alt, fortune plus invis. I mention this one secondly, b/c tournies are looking to nerf it (and most players agree its a bit much), and also at ML2 it's hard to get off with fortune/presc in the same turn.

Autarch is bringing more attacks to a unit that has a bunch already, and reserves can be manipulated in telepathy (which you are rolling on 3 times). Basically, he adds killyness to a unit that is going to struggle not wiping out its target anyway (hiding in combat with hit and run is always the right move) while the Farseer makes them more durable in that second round where you just want to survive to hit and run out.

As others have said, jet bikes main selling feature is speed and cheap. Hide em in reserve and obj. secured all over your opponent in turn 5/6. Keep squads smallish (3-6) and cheap (for one warlock on a jet bike you can just get another unit of 3). This'll let you grab fun units to play, like WS's who would fit in well with your list.

I run Eldar horde on foot, and always have 5-6 bikes with a warlock; they do a really good job of nabbing a midfield objective early game (we ONLY play tactical missions) and surviving; 2+ cover is pretty reliable. Of course if it doesn't go off they die, but oh wells.

I personally am super unimpressed with jetbikes in close combat, including warlocks. I've ran a big squad with Warlock and Autarch with both the Iyanden spear and sword; best case scenario they just die while the Autarch (hopefully) gets work done. I totally agree with Araenion that Shining Spears are the way to go; Hit and Run for Eldar is HUGE, so you don't end up locked in some stupid combat all game. Plus they seem like a really fun unit now.

You're doing Exodite bikes? How are you modeling them?