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I need some help. I play CSM and with the new changes from 7th ed I want to experiment with some new builds. What's good in 7th ed though? I play against an Ork play and have always lost due to all his large blast ap 3 or worse weaponry.

To me you need oblits and termins the deepstrike and havocs for long range,now somepeople like the idea of have like 100 zombies with typhus,the power will come from slannash bikers with icon of excess,and go to crimson slaughter to give your biker lord deamon heart for the 2 up save and it will not die,and mybe a forgefiend,to me csm punches hard,oblits can wipe out anything run like 2x3 man teams of oblits,they are just good,and mybe like some teams of deepstrike team of termis with combo guns and power axes,and the forgefiend,and the bikers squads just soak up so much fire,the havocs can give you that long range fire,with auto cannons or las cannons,to me it is all about power.the 100 zombes,are fearless and hard to move off objectives.The heldrake got hurt alot from the new rules,but you can just put it into hover mode and do its things.

I'll try the Bikers and Oblits, But whenever I DS with termies he either uses his Shokk Attak Gun or charges with his Meganobs. I also don't own a Forgefiend or Heldrake and do not have the ability to proxy for them either. I also like the chaos lord idea but again the 2+ save is practically worthless against him. I have yet to try termies with combi-meltas so I might try it next time to pierce his Meganobs armour. I could try Havocs with lascannons they would certainly have a good start if I went first. Thanks!

Havocs might have a rough go at it if your opponent is found of ap3 pie plates. Predators are a cheapish option that can be quite useful if power armor is having a tough time.

I would possibly get a Defiler or two. Walkers and vehicles in general have received a slight buff in 7th edition. That would help with the Green Tide taking some large blast templates to the face.

Havoc autocannons are probably your best option and they aren't that expensive. Heldrake did get a nerf but now you just need to be more strategic with them, they are still pretty good with the torrent baleflamer.

2 Force orge charts. 6 units of nurgle oblits. Sorcerers with spell familiars and daemonology.

Or

It strikes me that forge fiends with divination are quite nasty now too with the new vehicle rules.

JubbJubbz wrote:Havocs might have a rough go at it if your opponent is found of ap3 pie plates. Predators are a cheapish option that can be quite useful if power armor is having a tough time.

Maybe. I'd have to test which was more effective.

Solomongrundy wrote:I would possibly get a Defiler or two. Walkers and vehicles in general have received a slight buff in 7th edition. That would help with the Green Tide taking some large blast templates to the face.

Havoc autocannons are probably your best option and they aren't that expensive. Heldrake did get a nerf but now you just need to be more strategic with them, they are still pretty good with the torrent baleflamer.

I do like using the Mayhem Pack Helbrute formation it takes down his vehicles like they're nothing. I was think of taking them with power Scourges as well in case his Meganobs attack me. I might try Havoc Autocannons. Good AP long range (I think) but it won't insta kill Meganobs if it gets through their armour. Unfortunutly I also do not have a Defiler nor any possibility for proxys.

deFl0 wrote:2 Force orge charts. 6 units of nurgle oblits. Sorcerers with spell familiars and daemonology.

Or

It strikes me that forge fiends with divination are quite nasty now too with the new vehicle rules.

Oh I'm not sure. That leaves very little models on the board and once he hits them with his weapons of choice then they're gone.

A favorite thing of mine lately is to take a Level 3 (or three..), take some good combat units or something, and fish for Gate of Infinity on Sanctic demonology.

10 Terminators appearing in your enemy's face turn 1. Ahriman has done really well lately with his Witchfires, thanks to being hidden in a squad with someone else who has Gate.

 Brometheus wrote:
A favorite thing of mine lately is to take a Level 3 (or three..), take some good combat units or something, and fish for Gate of Infinity on Sanctic demonology.

10 Terminators appearing in your enemy's face turn 1. Ahriman has done really well lately with his Witchfires, thanks to being hidden in a squad with someone else who has Gate.

I'll take a look at that. I haven't really looked at the new Daemonology powers yet but I'll do that.

I've been avoiding Malefic in favor for Sanctic because most of the powers are Warp Charge 1 and that's good when we Perils on doubles anyway.

 Brometheus wrote:
I've been avoiding Malefic in favor for Sanctic because most of the powers are Warp Charge 1 and that's good when we Perils on doubles anyway.

Don't we automatically peril when using daemonology?

Edit- I don't know what I was saying.

We don't auto-Perils on Sanctic/Malefic, we Perils on any doubles.

 Brometheus wrote:
Edit- I don't know what I was saying.

We don't auto-Perils on Sanctic/Malefic, we Perils on any doubles.

Oh. And that goes for all factions (other than GK for Sanctic and CD for Maelfic)?

Maulerfiend is great with it's fast movement, try just using a disc of paper as a proxy see if it works for you to incentivise the purchase. Same as heldrake, he'll if you do well with the drake your bud may start rolling anti air whenyou can mix it up not run the drake and he's waisted some points. I think both of you just need to mix it up, if you run alot of bodies and he runs loads of ap3 just sounds a bit unfun/unfair. I'd just have a chat about mixing it up.

Correct

Yeah taking a Chaos Sorcerer who has access to a Spell Familiar and a few levels to cast Sanctuary is not terrible. Sanctuary has some great level 1 powers, add in that he himself can improve the Terms to 4++ is pretty decent but I have not seen anyone using that particular combo. Plus Hammerhand.

Nurgle Daemon Prince with wings, power armour and the Black Mace. 2+ cover save in open ground, just don't swoop and only use glide so you can charge on turn 1 or 2 though.

do you have to swoop to jink?

 marrowick wrote:
I need some help. I play CSM and with the new changes from 7th ed I want to experiment with some new builds. What's good in 7th ed though? I play against an Ork play and have always lost due to all his large blast ap 3 or worse weaponry.

For starters- tell us what stuff you have in your CSM army. Then we can help you more effectively lol.

Zognob Gorgoff wrote:Maulerfiend is great with it's fast movement, try just using a disc of paper as a proxy see if it works for you to incentivise the purchase. Same as heldrake, he'll if you do well with the drake your bud may start rolling anti air whenyou can mix it up not run the drake and he's waisted some points. I think both of you just need to mix it up, if you run alot of bodies and he runs loads of ap3 just sounds a bit unfun/unfair. I'd just have a chat about mixing it up.

Well I would be happy to proxy for one but I don't have the base measurements. Our proxy rules are that the base has to be the right size (roughly my Daemon Prince came on a termie base so I just stuck him on a cardboard cut out base) and the figure has to be around the same size though not exactly. If anyone has the measurements for a Mauler/forgefied please share

Hollismason wrote:Yeah taking a Chaos Sorcerer who has access to a Spell Familiar and a few levels to cast Sanctuary is not terrible. Sanctuary has some great level 1 powers, add in that he himself can improve the Terms to 4++ is pretty decent but I have not seen anyone using that particular combo. Plus Hammerhand.

As I said I will take a look at that. But thank you for the suggestion.

TimmyIsChaos wrote:Nurgle Daemon Prince with wings, power armour and the Black Mace. 2+ cover save in open ground, just don't swoop and only use glide so you can charge on turn 1 or 2 though.

Brometheus wrote:do you have to swoop to jink?

I'm pretty sure you do.

angelofvengeance wrote:

 marrowick wrote:
I need some help. I play CSM and with the new changes from 7th ed I want to experiment with some new builds. What's good in 7th ed though? I play against an Ork play and have always lost due to all his large blast ap 3 or worse weaponry.

For starters- tell us what stuff you have in your CSM army. Then we can help you more effectively lol.

Alright. The proxy rules are stated above but for wysiwyg I have:
10 CSM: One Melta, one Flamer, Iconbearer, Champion has Power Sword
20 Khorne Berzerkers: One Plasma Pistol, four Chainaxes, Champion has Powerfist and Chainaxe, Iconbearer
DV Helbrute
5 Raptors (plastic): One Flamer
5 Raptors (metal): One Flamer, two Plasma Pistols, Champion has two Lightning Claws
Both DV squads of Cultists
A fencepoint Rhino (That's just a rhino that I stuck as many fences as possible on it)
5 Teminators: One Power Maul, two Powerfists, One Power Axe, A Heavy Flamer, Champion has a Powerfist
Terminator Chaos Lord: Powerfist
Terminator Sorceror: Powerfist, Spell Familiar
DV Kranon (my favorite model)
2 squads of DV Chosen

I think that's it.

Yeah you need some bigger guns lol. Oblits/havocs/fiends/defilers/LR/Predators maybe a heldrake.

 Brometheus wrote:
do you have to swoop to jink?

Flying Monstrous Creatures have the Jink special rule. It's completely separate from the Swooping and Gliding rules.

In other words: no, the model does not need to be Swooping to get Jink.

 Cheexsta wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
do you have to swoop to jink?

Flying Monstrous Creatures have the Jink special rule. It's completely separate from the Swooping and Gliding rules.

In other words: no, the model does not need to be Swooping to get Jink.

So did they change that in seventh then? because in sixth you need to declare a dive to get Jink which you could only do while swooping I thought.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Yeah you need some bigger guns lol. Oblits/havocs/fiends/defilers/LR/Predators maybe a heldrake.

Indeed. Unfortunutly don't have the money right now. I should have a job next year though .

 marrowick wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
do you have to swoop to jink?

Flying Monstrous Creatures have the Jink special rule. It's completely separate from the Swooping and Gliding rules.

In other words: no, the model does not need to be Swooping to get Jink.

So did they change that in seventh then? because in sixth you need to declare a dive to get Jink which you could only do while swooping I thought.

Yes they changed it, they now just have the Jink special rule.

TimmyIsChaos wrote:

 marrowick wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
do you have to swoop to jink?

Flying Monstrous Creatures have the Jink special rule. It's completely separate from the Swooping and Gliding rules.

In other words: no, the model does not need to be Swooping to get Jink.

So did they change that in seventh then? because in sixth you need to declare a dive to get Jink which you could only do while swooping I thought.

Yes they changed it, they now just have the Jink special rule.

Awesome.

 marrowick wrote:

TimmyIsChaos wrote:

 marrowick wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
do you have to swoop to jink?

Flying Monstrous Creatures have the Jink special rule. It's completely separate from the Swooping and Gliding rules.

In other words: no, the model does not need to be Swooping to get Jink.

So did they change that in seventh then? because in sixth you need to declare a dive to get Jink which you could only do while swooping I thought.

Yes they changed it, they now just have the Jink special rule.

Awesome.

Yep, Nurgle DP is now the way to go. You could probably leave the power armour off if you're feeling confident and want a few less points on him

Unless you're fighting any army that has lots of ignores cover weapons, then you might want to rethink that

TimmyIsChaos wrote:

 marrowick wrote:

TimmyIsChaos wrote:

 marrowick wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
do you have to swoop to jink?

Flying Monstrous Creatures have the Jink special rule. It's completely separate from the Swooping and Gliding rules.

In other words: no, the model does not need to be Swooping to get Jink.

So did they change that in seventh then? because in sixth you need to declare a dive to get Jink which you could only do while swooping I thought.

Yes they changed it, they now just have the Jink special rule.

Awesome.

Yep, Nurgle DP is now the way to go. You could probably leave the power armour off if you're feeling confident and want a few less points on him

Unless you fighting any army that has ignores cover weapons, then you might want to rethink that

Just be wary of all that ignore cover weaponry that seems to be getting more used.

 Solomongrundy wrote:

TimmyIsChaos wrote:

 marrowick wrote:

TimmyIsChaos wrote:

 marrowick wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:
do you have to swoop to jink?

Flying Monstrous Creatures have the Jink special rule. It's completely separate from the Swooping and Gliding rules.

In other words: no, the model does not need to be Swooping to get Jink.

So did they change that in seventh then? because in sixth you need to declare a dive to get Jink which you could only do while swooping I thought.

Yes they changed it, they now just have the Jink special rule.

Awesome.

Yep, Nurgle DP is now the way to go. You could probably leave the power armour off if you're feeling confident and want a few less points on him

Unless you fighting any army that has ignores cover weapons, then you might want to rethink that

Just be wary of all that ignore cover weaponry that seems to be getting more used.

Well lucky for me he doesn't use any. I heard that flying DPs where absolute rubbish now but if I can give it a 2+ save I think I've got something there.

I've put a list up in the army list section that's think is very good (haven't lost a game yet). It has 6 units of plague marines in rhino's I know lots of people hated rhino's last edition but they're amazing this edition I also have the tau fire base cadre (nurglefied). I find using units in rhino's the best way to get across the board and with 12 objective secured units 6 being T5 3+ with FNP my. Opponents have a hard time dealing with them.

I like the idea of the typhus zombie army but I think it's too slow. I think the stand out units this edition are:

1.heldrake (still good anti air and anti infantry)
2. Plague marines in rhino's (durable and can take dual meltas in 5 man squad)
3. Oblits (great all purpose shooters)

I think people look at what got worse and jump on it I.E the heldrake and people look at what got a little better (forge fiends) and think they're the next best thing.

bobmgee wrote:
I've put a list up in the army list section that's think is very good (haven't lost a game yet). It has 6 units of plague marines in rhino's I know lots of people hated rhino's last edition but they're amazing this edition I also have the tau fire base cadre (nurglefied). I find using units in rhino's the best way to get across the board and with 12 objective secured units 6 being T5 3+ with FNP my. Opponents have a hard time dealing with them.

I like the idea of the typhus zombie army but I think it's too slow. I think the stand out units this edition are:

1.heldrake (still good anti air and anti infantry)
2. Plague marines in rhino's (durable and can take dual meltas in 5 man squad)
3. Oblits (great all purpose shooters)

I think people look at what got worse and jump on it I.E the heldrake and people look at what got a little better (forge fiends) and think they're the next best thing.

Looks pretty good. It'll need some tailoring for me as I prefer to play pure Chaos and me and my opponent usually play around 2000 points but I really ever though of taking five man Nurgle Marine squads.