How many Space Marines do you think it would take to sieze a planet

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**Lord Tarkin**

Iron_Captain wrote:
A hundred to crush major opposition and destabilise a world(destroy leadership and key infrastructure)
A thousand to crush almost all opposition (destroying a world's military)
100.000 to actually conquer and hold, pacify and garrison a world.

Best response so far.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Redcruisair wrote:
changerofways wrote:
I feel this thread is vague and fruitless

Well a lot of that can be attributed to the OP, who has hand waved away many a sensible responses and has three times now made insulting remarks towards people in this thread.

By the way Tarkin, breaking the forum rules is an effective way of getting a thread locked, or a nice ban. So be smart and tone down the bad attitude before something bad happens.

Maybe if people could be intelligent enough to read a question and provide a debatable response instead of asking a dozen stupid questions in return which have already been asked and answered earlier in the thread.

If anybody doesn't know what "seize" means then they can look it up on google or read a dictionary. Same for a "civilized world," look it up on a warhammer 40k wiki.

Stop being conversationally incompetent and learn something.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MajorStoffer wrote:
In point of fact on the feral thing, the whole sequence people are referencing in the Ghosts series I always felt to be Abnett's jab at un-helmeted marines. The Chaos Marine in question gets his helmet knocked off, and pummelled with more poison than is reasonable.

On topic, it all depends on Guard support. I just ignore writers who have a single company invade planets; 100 bodies simply can't do enough alone to matter. Hell, with the exception of the Badab War, marines are almost never the primary striking force in a conflict in 40k, at least when written by anyone credible.

They're a force multiplier, and I think their strategic use was best characterized in Forgeworld's Siege of Vraks books. Marines show up, hit critical areas with rapid, unrelenting assault, cripple enemy defences, and the Death Korps takes care of the rest. The more Marines you apply to a warzone, the faster the war is over, but it is predicated on having the Imperial Guard present with sufficient force to capitalize on what Marines do. They're like any current special forces, strategically very useful, and are also idea for important skirmishes over VIPs, key resources, unsanctioned conflicts and so on, but aren't going to conquer anything alone.

This was even true in the Heresy era; the Marines are more of a shock elements in that period, rather than just special forces, but it's been a well-established part of the fluff for a long time that the Imperial Army was key to actually holding anything the Marines took as the Crusade spread further and further from Terra.

As you said SM's are almost never the primary striking. IG are the backbone of the Imperium for a great many reasons. Like I said, this is my first ever poll and I will be sure to be more detailed next time, I am just tired of lazy people asking questions that were already answered earlier in the thread.

**Furyou Miko**

PhillyT wrote:

So we are using very loose and most pointless terms? How would a single marine convert an entire planet into a recruiting world without that planets people being able to spread his message?

The entire idea is ridiculous and ignores human history. And if you aren't basing it off human history, there is nothing to base the thought experiment on in the first place.

*sigh*

You're missing the point. Since I've explained it three times, I'm going to assume that you're trolling and stop bothering.

**Ultramarine vet**

I think its safe to assume that the 1,000 Space Marines would have IG support. With that being said, 1,000 Space Marines would be efficient for the task. A lot of people here seem to be simple-minded, and you have to specify every single detail.

Those of you that don't think 1,000 Space Marines can do it, must think that they have to kill the entire population. They probably won't even have to kill a quarter of the population. Especially if all the leaders are taken out, seizing the planet will be so much easier. A chapter will get it done, I promise.

**Ignatius**

Ultramarine vet wrote:
I think its safe to assume that the 1,000 Space Marines would have IG support. With that being said, 1,000 Space Marines would be efficient for the task. A lot of people here seem to be simple-minded, and you have to specify every single detail.

Those of you that don't think 1,000 Space Marines can do it, must think that they have to kill the entire population. They probably won't even have to kill a quarter of the population. Especially if all the leaders are taken out, seizing the planet will be so much easier. A chapter will get it done, I promise.

1) answering the OP's initial question required a lot of clarification, and to get an answer that is at least someone along the lines of what it would take then you need to take the extra time to get the right information. Measure twice cut once.

2) it's really easy for me to come back and say the exact opposite of what you just said, and I would be just as correct. A chapter won't get it done, I promise.

Now who is correct? Neither of us provided any sort of evidence, so it's impossible to say.

**Ultramarine vet**

Ignatius wrote:
Ultramarine vet wrote:
I think its safe to assume that the 1,000 Space Marines would have IG support. With that being said, 1,000 Space Marines would be efficient for the task. A lot of people here seem to be simple-minded, and you have to specify every single detail.

Those of you that don't think 1,000 Space Marines can do it, must think that they have to kill the entire population. They probably won't even have to kill a quarter of the population. Especially if all the leaders are taken out, seizing the planet will be so much easier. A chapter will get it done, I promise.

1) answering the OP's initial question required a lot of clarification, and to get an answer that is at least someone along the lines of what it would take then you need to take the extra time to get the right information. Measure twice cut once.

2) it's really easy for me to come back and say the exact opposite of what you just said, and I would be just as correct. A chapter won't get it done, I promise.

Now who is correct? Neither of us provided any sort of evidence, so it's impossible to say.

Are you seriously telling me a chapter cannot? Are you?

**Random Dude**

It depends on the size and fortification level of the planet. An entire chapter will most likely be able to do the job seeing as one company can defend a planet in black library novels.

**Ignatius**

Ultramarine vet wrote:
Ignatius wrote:
Ultramarine vet wrote:
I think its safe to assume that the 1,000 Space Marines would have IG support. With that being said, 1,000 Space Marines would be efficient for the task. A lot of people here seem to be simple-minded, and you have to specify every single detail.

Those of you that don't think 1,000 Space Marines can do it, must think that they have to kill the entire population. They probably won't even have to kill a quarter of the population. Especially if all the leaders are taken out, seizing the planet will be so much easier. A chapter will get it done, I promise.

1) answering the OP's initial question required a lot of clarification, and to get an answer that is at least someone along the lines of what it would take then you need to take the extra time to get the right information. Measure twice cut once.

2) it's really easy for me to come back and say the exact opposite of what you just said, and I would be just as correct. A chapter won't get it done, I promise.

Now who is correct? Neither of us provided any sort of evidence, so it's impossible to say.

Are you seriously telling me a chapter cannot? Are you?

Yes I absolutely seriously am. I have seen a heck of a lot of breathtakingly destructive weapons, explosives, and machines that our military has in action, and cannot fathom a group of 1,000 soldiers defeating them. I also know that war is a LOT more than just shooting stuff, and I don't think that the marines can possibly form an effective counter with so few soldiers.

**Lord Tarkin**

Ignatius wrote:
Ultramarine vet wrote:
I think its safe to assume that the 1,000 Space Marines would have IG support. With that being said, 1,000 Space Marines would be efficient for the task. A lot of people here seem to be simple-minded, and you have to specify every single detail.

Those of you that don't think 1,000 Space Marines can do it, must think that they have to kill the entire population. They probably won't even have to kill a quarter of the population. Especially if all the leaders are taken out, seizing the planet will be so much easier. A chapter will get it done, I promise.

1) answering the OP's initial question required a lot of clarification, and to get an answer that is at least someone along the lines of what it would take then you need to take the extra time to get the right information. Measure twice cut once.

2) it's really easy for me to come back and say the exact opposite of what you just said, and I would be just as correct. A chapter won't get it done, I promise.

Now who is correct? Neither of us provided any sort of evidence, so it's impossible to say.

Again, I apologize for the lack of clarification but I don't ask a lot of questions on Dakka and this is my first poll. Either people understand the question and can vote or they don't don't and they skip it.

And to your point, there is never any evidence of much of anything at all in 40k. Most of it is rich debate and hypothetical opinions but nothing can be proven. I mean, I seriously thought there would be no votes at all for 10 marines but there obviously is. I agree with a lot of people on this thread and disagree with others.

**Ultramarine vet**

Ignatius wrote:
Ultramarine vet wrote:
Ignatius wrote:
Ultramarine vet wrote:
I think its safe to assume that the 1,000 Space Marines would have IG support. With that being said, 1,000 Space Marines would be efficient for the task. A lot of people here seem to be simple-minded, and you have to specify every single detail.

Those of you that don't think 1,000 Space Marines can do it, must think that they have to kill the entire population. They probably won't even have to kill a quarter of the population. Especially if all the leaders are taken out, seizing the planet will be so much easier. A chapter will get it done, I promise.

1) answering the OP's initial question required a lot of clarification, and to get an answer that is at least someone along the lines of what it would take then you need to take the extra time to get the right information. Measure twice cut once.

2) it's really easy for me to come back and say the exact opposite of what you just said, and I would be just as correct. A chapter won't get it done, I promise.

Now who is correct? Neither of us provided any sort of evidence, so it's impossible to say.

Are you seriously telling me a chapter cannot? Are you?

Yes I absolutely seriously am. I have seen a heck of a lot of breathtakingly destructive weapons, explosives, and machines that our military has in action, and cannot fathom a group of 1,000 soldiers defeating them. I also know that war is a LOT more than just shooting stuff, and I don't think that the marines can possibly form an effective counter with so few soldiers.

I love how you refer to Space Marines as soldiers. Buddy, they are super human killing machines. Demi-gods even. You need to read some more Space Marine novels before coming in here spouting all that nonsense. Also, I will say this again, these 1,000 Space Marines will have IG support. You are thinking they will be all alone. I find that hilarious. Space Marines are not stupid. They will get it done.

**Ignatius**

Lord Tarkin wrote:
Ignatius wrote:
Ultramarine vet wrote:
I think its safe to assume that the 1,000 Space Marines would have IG support. With that being said, 1,000 Space Marines would be efficient for the task. A lot of people here seem to be simple-minded, and you have to specify every single detail.

Those of you that don't think 1,000 Space Marines can do it, must think that they have to kill the entire population. They probably won't even have to kill a quarter of the population. Especially if all the leaders are taken out, seizing the planet will be so much easier. A chapter will get it done, I promise.

1) answering the OP's initial question required a lot of clarification, and to get an answer that is at least someone along the lines of what it would take then you need to take the extra time to get the right information. Measure twice cut once.

2) it's really easy for me to come back and say the exact opposite of what you just said, and I would be just as correct. A chapter won't get it done, I promise.

Now who is correct? Neither of us provided any sort of evidence, so it's impossible to say.

Again, I apologize for the lack of clarification but I don't ask a lot of questions on Dakka and this is my first poll. Either people understand the question and can vote or they don't don't and they skip it.

And to your point, there is never any evidence of much of anything at all in 40k. Most of it is rich debate and hypothetical opinions but nothing can be proven. I mean, I seriously thought there would be no votes at all for 10 marines but there obviously is. I agree with a lot of people on this thread and disagree with others.

Hey no harm no foul. You've sparked a lot of debate with your poll, so I'd call it a success especially as your first one. Next time just a little more patience with answering questions will go a long way. You don't want to alienate people like that, because maybe they have some really good points to make. Again, you answered them so all is good.

And right, the way you read into the fluff has a lot to do with your interpretation of it, as does your experiences in life. I'm a pretty good example, where my military experiences have a huge impact on the way I see and understand things. Whether I'm justified in using that experience as a basis for argument is a whole nother debate however

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ultramarine vet wrote:
Ignatius wrote:
Ultramarine vet wrote:
Ignatius wrote:
Ultramarine vet wrote:
I think its safe to assume that the 1,000 Space Marines would have IG support. With that being said, 1,000 Space Marines would be efficient for the task. A lot of people here seem to be simple-minded, and you have to specify every single detail.

Those of you that don't think 1,000 Space Marines can do it, must think that they have to kill the entire population. They probably won't even have to kill a quarter of the population. Especially if all the leaders are taken out, seizing the planet will be so much easier. A chapter will get it done, I promise.

1) answering the OP's initial question required a lot of clarification, and to get an answer that is at least someone along the lines of what it would take then you need to take the extra time to get the right information. Measure twice cut once.

2) it's really easy for me to come back and say the exact opposite of what you just said, and I would be just as correct. A chapter won't get it done, I promise.

Now who is correct? Neither of us provided any sort of evidence, so it's impossible to say.

Are you seriously telling me a chapter cannot? Are you?

Yes I absolutely seriously am. I have seen a heck of a lot of breathtakingly destructive weapons, explosives, and machines that our military has in action, and cannot fathom a group of 1,000 soldiers defeating them. I also know that war is a LOT more than just shooting stuff, and I don't think that the marines can possibly form an effective counter with so few soldiers.

I love how you refer to Space Marines as soldiers. Buddy, they are super human killing machines. Demi-gods even. You need to read some more Space Marine novels before coming in here spouting all that nonsense. Also, I will say this again, these 1,000 Space Marines will have IG support. You are thinking they will be all alone. I find that hilarious. Space Marines are not stupid. They will get it done.

Buddy they are soldiers. "One engaged in military service". Yup, soldiers. I've read PLENTY of Space Marine books. Why don't you go get some actual experience about what you're talking about? Don't call my thoughts nonsense, you sound dismissive and arrogant.

The question asked how many marine it takes to take a planet. My thoughts don't include Imperial Guard support. I'm sorry you find that funny (no really I am sorry, you seem to have a terrible sense of humor) as there really isn't anything "funny" about that. The military isn't stupid. They will get it done.

**Lord Tarkin**

Ignatius wrote:
Lord Tarkin wrote:
Ignatius wrote:
Ultramarine vet wrote:
I think its safe to assume that the 1,000 Space Marines would have IG support. With that being said, 1,000 Space Marines would be efficient for the task. A lot of people here seem to be simple-minded, and you have to specify every single detail.

Those of you that don't think 1,000 Space Marines can do it, must think that they have to kill the entire population. They probably won't even have to kill a quarter of the population. Especially if all the leaders are taken out, seizing the planet will be so much easier. A chapter will get it done, I promise.

1) answering the OP's initial question required a lot of clarification, and to get an answer that is at least someone along the lines of what it would take then you need to take the extra time to get the right information. Measure twice cut once.

2) it's really easy for me to come back and say the exact opposite of what you just said, and I would be just as correct. A chapter won't get it done, I promise.

Now who is correct? Neither of us provided any sort of evidence, so it's impossible to say.

Again, I apologize for the lack of clarification but I don't ask a lot of questions on Dakka and this is my first poll. Either people understand the question and can vote or they don't don't and they skip it.

And to your point, there is never any evidence of much of anything at all in 40k. Most of it is rich debate and hypothetical opinions but nothing can be proven. I mean, I seriously thought there would be no votes at all for 10 marines but there obviously is. I agree with a lot of people on this thread and disagree with others.

Hey no harm no foul. You've sparked a lot of debate with your poll, so I'd call it a success especially as your first one. Next time just a little more patience with answering questions will go a long way. You don't want to alienate people like that, because maybe they have some really good points to make. Again, you answered them so all is good.

And right, the way you read into the fluff has a lot to do with your interpretation of it, as does your experiences in life. I'm a pretty good example, where my military experiences have a huge impact on the way I see and understand things. Whether I'm justified in using that experience as a basis for argument is a whole nother debate however

Eh, my patience runs very low when people ask 3 times in a row whay seize means or how I mean to use the word.

But I guess ...Im gonna have to be a good boy despite the immensity of dissapointment I feel when someone doesn't know what seize means. Terrible poll though as far as clarification on the scenario

**DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr**

Iron_Captain wrote:
A hundred to crush major opposition and destabilise a world(destroy leadership and key infrastructure)
A thousand to crush almost all opposition (destroying a world's military)
100.000 to actually conquer and hold, pacify and garrison a world.

WE HAVE A WINNER!

Iron Captain, your post is so god damn good I'm quoting it.

I agree exactly with what he says.

*claps*

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Redcruisair wrote:
changerofways wrote:
I feel this thread is vague and fruitless

Well a lot of that can be attributed to the OP, who has hand waved away many a sensible responses and has three times now made insulting remarks towards people in this thread.

By the way Tarkin, breaking the forum rules is an effective way of getting a thread locked, or a nice ban. So be smart and tone down the bad attitude before something bad happens.

Now THIS guy, needs to calm down and not take words so seriously.

It is a shame that most if not everybody in the world is suspectable to such "dis"ease.

You can easily comprehend such words and yet you succumb to it's design so easily.

Whoever gets mad, gets scared, gets "dis"(comforted) by an outside distraction has lost the round - this person has surrendered to the wills of "chaos"

And the game continues...

**djones520**

I'd say take a look at the Horus Heresy books. They used thousands of Marines with hundreds of thousands of Imperial Army troops to retake well established worlds.

**Ultramarine vet**

Ignatius wrote:
Lord Tarkin wrote:
Ignatius wrote:
Ultramarine vet wrote:
I think its safe to assume that the 1,000 Space Marines would have IG support. With that being said, 1,000 Space Marines would be efficient for the task. A lot of people here seem to be simple-minded, and you have to specify every single detail.

Those of you that don't think 1,000 Space Marines can do it, must think that they have to kill the entire population. They probably won't even have to kill a quarter of the population. Especially if all the leaders are taken out, seizing the planet will be so much easier. A chapter will get it done, I promise.

1) answering the OP's initial question required a lot of clarification, and to get an answer that is at least someone along the lines of what it would take then you need to take the extra time to get the right information. Measure twice cut once.

2) it's really easy for me to come back and say the exact opposite of what you just said, and I would be just as correct. A chapter won't get it done, I promise.

Now who is correct? Neither of us provided any sort of evidence, so it's impossible to say.

Again, I apologize for the lack of clarification but I don't ask a lot of questions on Dakka and this is my first poll. Either people understand the question and can vote or they don't don't and they skip it.

And to your point, there is never any evidence of much of anything at all in 40k. Most of it is rich debate and hypothetical opinions but nothing can be proven. I mean, I seriously thought there would be no votes at all for 10 marines but there obviously is. I agree with a lot of people on this thread and disagree with others.

Hey no harm no foul. You've sparked a lot of debate with your poll, so I'd call it a success especially as your first one. Next time just a little more patience with answering questions will go a long way. You don't want to alienate people like that, because maybe they have some really good points to make. Again, you answered them so all is good.

And right, the way you read into the fluff has a lot to do with your interpretation of it, as does your experiences in life. I'm a pretty good example, where my military experiences have a huge impact on the way I see and understand things. Whether I'm justified in using that experience as a basis for argument is a whole nother debate however

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ultramarine vet wrote:
Ignatius wrote:
Ultramarine vet wrote:
Ignatius wrote:
Ultramarine vet wrote:
I think its safe to assume that the 1,000 Space Marines would have IG support. With that being said, 1,000 Space Marines would be efficient for the task. A lot of people here seem to be simple-minded, and you have to specify every single detail.

Those of you that don't think 1,000 Space Marines can do it, must think that they have to kill the entire population. They probably won't even have to kill a quarter of the population. Especially if all the leaders are taken out, seizing the planet will be so much easier. A chapter will get it done, I promise.

1) answering the OP's initial question required a lot of clarification, and to get an answer that is at least someone along the lines of what it would take then you need to take the extra time to get the right information. Measure twice cut once.

2) it's really easy for me to come back and say the exact opposite of what you just said, and I would be just as correct. A chapter won't get it done, I promise.

Now who is correct? Neither of us provided any sort of evidence, so it's impossible to say.

Are you seriously telling me a chapter cannot? Are you?

Yes I absolutely seriously am. I have seen a heck of a lot of breathtakingly destructive weapons, explosives, and machines that our military has in action, and cannot fathom a group of 1,000 soldiers defeating them. I also know that war is a LOT more than just shooting stuff, and I don't think that the marines can possibly form an effective counter with so few soldiers.

I love how you refer to Space Marines as soldiers. Buddy, they are super human killing machines. Demi-gods even. You need to read some more Space Marine novels before coming in here spouting all that nonsense. Also, I will say this again, these 1,000 Space Marines will have IG support. You are thinking they will be all alone. I find that hilarious. Space Marines are not stupid. They will get it done.

Buddy they are soldiers. "One engaged in military service". Yup, soldiers. I've read PLENTY of Space Marine books. Why don't you go get some actual experience about what you're talking about? Don't call my thoughts nonsense, you sound dismissive and arrogant.

The question asked how many marine it takes to take a planet. My thoughts don't include Imperial Guard support. I'm sorry you find that funny (no really I am sorry, you seem to have a terrible sense of humor) as there really isn't anything "funny" about that. The military isn't stupid. They will get it done.

They are called the Angels of Death, with good reason. They are super humans who live to kill! A full chapter, with IG support is more than enough to seize a planet.

You are very ardent about the military.....this is respectable. But you seem to underestimate the fury of Space Marines.

However, I want to know your opinion. I assume you know just as much about Space Marines, since you've.....read plenty of books on them. You obviously don't think a full chapter can seize a planet. How many Space Marines do you think is needed to seize a planet?

**djphranq**

1,000,000.

999,999 to hold the ladder and 1 to screw in the light bulb.

**Ultramarine vet**

djphranq wrote:
1,000,000.

999,999 to hold the ladder and 1 to screw in the light bulb.

I.....don't even think there is 1,000,000 Space Marines.

**BlaxicanX**

changerofways wrote:
I feel this thread is vague and fruitless

I feel like the banner at the top of the forum should just be replaced with a screen-cap of this post, with a little "DakkaDakka Forums" title in the lower corner.

**Ignatius**

Ultramarine vet wrote:
djphranq wrote:
1,000,000.

999,999 to hold the ladder and 1 to screw in the light bulb.

I.....don't even think there is 1,000,000 Space Marines.

Yep. There are about 1,000,000 marines in the Imperium at any given time.

As for my opinion, I would say about 100,000. The world is way too big for any fewer to actually be able to hold anything. I get that they are great soldiers-super human killing machines built for war- but there are limits. They are peerless at the part about shooting and killing stuff sure, but as I said before there are a lot more things to war than just killing things. Out of the 16 branches of the US Army for example, only
7 are actually combat arms branches. The rest are only to do with combat support. Not to mention the large amount of civilian contractors that are vital to the combat effectiveness of units.

To flat out say that marines are best because they are strong is ignoring a huge amount of what goes into fighting a war. And in my opinion, an all too important aspect that cannot be looked over.

I have a lot of respect for the Army because I'm in it, and I've seen a lot of the stuff we are talking about (maybe not talking about as much in this thread, but there are some others I've offered a more detailed opinion).

BlaxicanX wrote:
changerofways wrote:
I feel this thread is vague and fruitless

I feel like the banner at the top of the forum should just be replaced with a screen-cap of this post, with a little "DakkaDakka Forums" title in the lower corner.

**Ultramarine vet**

Ignatius wrote:
Ultramarine vet wrote:
djphranq wrote:
1,000,000.

999,999 to hold the ladder and 1 to screw in the light bulb.

I.....don't even think there is 1,000,000 Space Marines.

Yep. There are about 1,000,000 marines in the Imperium at any given time.

As for my opinion, I would say about 100,000. The world is way too big for any fewer to actually be able to hold anything. I get that they are great soldiers-super human killing machines built for war- but there are limits. They are peerless at the part about shooting and killing stuff sure, but as I said before there are a lot more things to war than just killing things. Out of the 16 branches of the US Army for example, only
7 are actually combat arms branches. The rest are only to do with combat support. Not to mention the large amount of civilian contractors that are vital to the combat effectiveness of units.

To flat out say that marines are best because they are strong is ignoring a huge amount of what goes into fighting a war. And in my opinion, an all too important aspect that cannot be looked over.

I have a lot of respect for the Army because I'm in it, and I've seen a lot of the stuff we are talking about (maybe not talking about as much in this thread, but there are some others I've offered a more detailed opinion).

To actually hold the planet, I agree with you. Absolutely. Although Space Marines usually don't hold planets. That is usually left to the PDF. I'm not positive on that part however.

That is my fault for not implying that 1,000 Space Marines would have IG support. I am not that stupid, as to say 1,000 Space Marines can seize a planet ALL on their own. 1,000 marines, with tons of Guardsmen regiments at their disposal, could probably then seize a planet.

**Mozzyfuzzy**

Just 1, if that marine is an Alpha legionnaire

But I'd probably say a company so around the 100ish mark, that'll operate as marines do when they aren't charging headlong across open battlefields, quick surgical strikes against the command structure and large military targets, for me this would be done rather quickly and silently before any alarm spread, as the longer your opponent doesn't know they are fighting the easier it will be.

And of course the PDF will be killed to a man.

**mitch_rifle**

A few thousand marines and maybe 20 odd million guardsmen, increasing or decreasing in number depending on resistance/fighting condition's etc

**Iron_Captain**

djphranq wrote:
1,000,000.

999,999 to hold the ladder and 1 to screw in the light bulb.

No, it is 1 Marine to screw in the light bulb and 999,999 Marines to defend him from the other 999,999 Marines who have turned traitor

I don't exactly remember where I got that joke (was it the SoB joke thread? It probably was) but it really made me laugh.

**Vaktathi**

Ultramarine vet wrote:

They are called the Angels of Death, with good reason. They are super humans who live to kill! A full chapter, with IG support is more than enough to seize a planet.

You are very ardent about the military.....this is respectable. But you seem to underestimate the fury of Space Marines.

Fury is a poor match for numbers. 1000 marines can't cover a whole lot of ground. They just can't *BE* everywhere they'd need to be, and after even moderate casualties would start to feel very pinched indeed. 1000 marines couldn't for example, cordon off a city to prevent an enemy from fleeing, there just aren't enough to cover everywhere. They would be exceedingly vulnerable to encirclement, area effect weapons, and strategic weapons (i.e. nukes, vortex missiles, etc).

Imagine if they got caught in an artillery barrage in their landing zones?

Once again, the Space Marines are really more of a Fantasy-In-Space concept, they fall apart very rapidly when analyzed from any sort of realistic perspective.

**Furyou Miko**

Its amusing that even though its been stated so many times in this thread, there are still people who think that

"Walking death machines that can fight any concievable military force"

means that they have any ability to hold and control.

Space Marines can take ground. Given enough time, a hundred Space Marines could probably destroy every leader and soldier on earth (although it would take them time). However, they could not hold that ground.

Except in my example above of the feral world that is brought into compliance on a technicality (because the people on the planet aren't fighting back), anything more developed (modern to advanced level society) needs numbers of soldiers to keep the population placid. Either that or a tool, such as religion.

One missionary can do the work of ten thousand space marines.

**Vaktathi**

I think the concept that SM's could fight a conventional war against every leader and soldier on earth would be quite ridiculous.

Again 40k is a fantasy universe, not really a scifi one. We have capabilities today that put many things in the 40k universe to shame. We have tanks that can move at 60km/h and hit moving targets 2000 meters away with 95% hit rates with projectiles that can penetrate over a meter of cold rolled steel (and SM armor certainly isn't anything near that tough), and can do it 10 times a minute. We have rocket artillery that can roll off huge numbers of rockets very qucikly onto a target 60 kilometers away and land within 5 meters of the target. We have ~60 year old RPG's that can penetrate 200mm of cold rolled steel. After the SM's landed, unless they were able to take out the hundreds of different bases and military command centers spread throughout dozens of different nations, they'd be destroyed in short order on modern earth.

**Daba**

With BFG, Space Marines are just so Fragile. I mean, a game could pass, and you could just see and go 'Oh, that's the entire Dark Angels chapter gone.'

**Wyzilla**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Its amusing that even though its been stated so many times in this thread, there are still people who think that

"Walking death machines that can fight any concievable military force"

means that they have any ability to hold and control.

Space Marines can take ground. Given enough time, a hundred Space Marines could probably destroy every leader and soldier on earth (although it would take them time). However, they could not hold that ground.

Except in my example above of the feral world that is brought into compliance on a technicality (because the people on the planet aren't fighting back), anything more developed (modern to advanced level society) needs numbers of soldiers to keep the population placid. Either that or a tool, such as religion.

One missionary can do the work of ten thousand space marines.

No, they can hold a world. Raze all military forces, publicly kill all leaders to break morale, and sweep through all population centers with kill teams ordered to exterminate. The largest population centers are obliterated as kill-teams continue to scour the surface for survivors while Librarians probe the planet for any remaining human life. Rinse and repeat with kill-teams and orbital bombardment until there's nothing left.

Congratulations, you seized a planet

**Lord Tarkin**

Wyzilla wrote:
Furyou Miko wrote:
Its amusing that even though its been stated so many times in this thread, there are still people who think that

"Walking death machines that can fight any concievable military force"

means that they have any ability to hold and control.

Space Marines can take ground. Given enough time, a hundred Space Marines could probably destroy every leader and soldier on earth (although it would take them time). However, they could not hold that ground.

Except in my example above of the feral world that is brought into compliance on a technicality (because the people on the planet aren't fighting back), anything more developed (modern to advanced level society) needs numbers of soldiers to keep the population placid. Either that or a tool, such as religion.

One missionary can do the work of ten thousand space marines.

No, they can hold a world. Raze all military forces, publicly kill all leaders to break morale, and sweep through all population centers with kill teams ordered to exterminate. The largest population centers are obliterated as kill-teams continue to scour the surface for survivors while Librarians probe the planet for any remaining human life. Rinse and repeat with kill-teams and orbital bombardment until there's nothing left.

Congratulations, you seized a planet

*shrugs* would take 10 or 15 years but yeah

**Vaktathi**

So, how are they supposed to go about razing all military forces? Especially with such limited numbers? They couldn't be in enough places to matter. 100 space marines attacking you? Leave rearguard force, retreat a couple kilometers, rain mortars (which *have* been shown to kill space marines) and artillery on the SM's, and repeat. 100 marines certainly can't cover enough ground to block a retreat, much less do so while attacking.

Or, oh snap, they've got a couple of hundred tanks? Well, good luck Marines against that.

This is all to say nothing of the fact that, aside from Scouts trying to physically scout everything out (and it's not like there's a lot of them, nor are they as unequalled in stealth as normal SM's are in battle capabilities), the SM's have basically zero intelligence gathering methods short of capture and interrogation (which in real life delivers incredibly inconsistent information). They wouldn't know where their enemy would be in most instances.

That's not even getting into logistical issues, Emperor help them if their orbital supplies run out.

**Lord Tarkin**

Like I have said, 98,000 human soldiers will die to a SM chapter, as I have calculated.

Regular SM = 100 dead soldiers
Sergeant = 150 dead soldiers
Scout = 20 dead soldiers (calculated with the sum of 100 scouts)
Captain = 200 dead soldiers

Now think about how many humans would be able to fight on a standard civilized world. Probably 8 billion inhabitants but lets say there are 25 million trained soldiers.

SM's attack the most vital and strategic enemy positions so those 98,000 dead humans will be the result of those destroyed positons (enemy command sructures, heretical religious leaders, weapon depots, communications arrays, ect.)

But this is pretty much all they can do. They are superhuman but they cannot kill 25 million armed and trained soldiers.

This is where the IG come into play. If a dozen regiments of IG are present they can do battle with the enemy military and after the SM's complete what I explained above then the enemy will probably just surrender in a matter of a few years.

The IG are the powerful kick in the enemy gut while the SM's are the surprise right hook to the face.