Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well, that was...childish.

Is that canon? Please let it be canon, please!

Sadly it's just a fanfic, but a good one at that.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
I love the idea of the Space Wolves. I love the background and fluff. What I don't like is some of their rules.

Their Devastators get 5 Heavies because.....Space Wolves.
They get 4 HQs because....Space Wolves.

I think the whole "Space Marines +1" thing leads to resentment. I don't mind chapters getting unique things, but when it's over the top for no reason it kinda grates on you.

This about sums it up. In 2nd edition, Wolf Guard Terminators could field Assault Cannons and Cyclone Launchers *on the same model* just because they were Wolf Guard; nobody else could do that, and it made Wolves one of the most OP armies. In 3rd, basically everything they had was better than normal, for no reason. Long Fangs, in particular, could split fire which made them insane (this was before the Tau came out with Target Locks) just for being Long Fangs. They used to be the only army that got Venerable Dreadnoughts. Their characters were better in CC (in 3rd) than everyone else, because Space Vikings.

Everything about them is just better than the best. Like I said, I really like Wolves but never played them because it felt like cheating to pick something that was already good and then taken to 11 for basically no reason. Of course now it's gotten a bit stupid with Wolf this and Wolf that and Wolfy McWulf the Wolf Lord riding a Thunderwolf, but they're still Marines+1 which has never sat well with me because there's no reason for it. The only thing I can think of is that Jervis plays them (since they've been OP for 20 years, and nobody else has been with the Studio that long) but Jervis has said in the past he doesn't play any one thing in particular.

Basically Wolves have been the best of the best of the best for 20 years, for zero logical reason.

WayneTheGame wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
I love the idea of the Space Wolves. I love the background and fluff. What I don't like is some of their rules.

Their Devastators get 5 Heavies because.....Space Wolves.
They get 4 HQs because....Space Wolves.

I think the whole "Space Marines +1" thing leads to resentment. I don't mind chapters getting unique things, but when it's over the top for no reason it kinda grates on you.

The old long fangs were also stupidly expensive when compared to Marine Devistators. The Leader was 28 points and came with nothing more than PA and a Bolter. Its amazing how many people forget this part.
They get four HQs because they are supposed to be an army led by Heros. In third edition you had to take one HQ for every 750 points (round down) so anything over 1500 points had a mandatory 3 HQs. Two at 751 points. Its this way because its always been this way.

This about sums it up. In 2nd edition, Wolf Guard Terminators could field Assault Cannons and Cyclone Launchers *on the same model* just because they were Wolf Guard; nobody else could do that, and it made Wolves one of the most OP armies. In 3rd, basically everything they had was better than normal, for no reason. Long Fangs, in particular, could split fire which made them insane (this was before the Tau came out with Target Locks) just for being Long Fangs. They used to be the only army that got Venerable Dreadnoughts. Their characters were better in CC (in 3rd) than everyone else, because Space Vikings.

I never played second edition, so I have no personal experance with it, but as for third, they were better in some respects but much worse in others. But again, paid higher points for Long Fangs, and you need to be fair so please tell me you hate on Black Templars because they were the only ones to get Land Raider Crusaders. Or Blood Angles for being the only ones to get Dreads with 2D6 armor penetration and Psycher Dreads. Or BA and GK for being the only ones to get Stormravens for a time, or DA for their flyer. Someone has to get stuff first, SW were the first to get Venerable Dreads, but then marines got them, and ironclads... but where are the Ironclads in the newest SW codex? They also apparently lost all of their auspexs, special bolter ammo that Sternguard use and several other things.

Everything about them is just better than the best. Like I said, I really like Wolves but never played them because it felt like cheating to pick something that was already good and then taken to 11 for basically no reason. Of course now it's gotten a bit stupid with Wolf this and Wolf that and Wolfy McWulf the Wolf Lord riding a Thunderwolf, but they're still Marines+1 which has never sat well with me because there's no reason for it. The only thing I can think of is that Jervis plays them (since they've been OP for 20 years, and nobody else has been with the Studio that long) but Jervis has said in the past he doesn't play any one thing in particular.

Basically Wolves have been the best of the best of the best for 20 years, for zero logical reason.

Its funny how people keep bringing up the wolf name thing when there are now actually fewer wolf named wargear than there was in third. They have actually reduced that number. The only concession I'm willing to give on them being marines +1 for no reason is the Wolf Claw. I agree that it got its bonus for no apparent reason and was probably unwarranted.

They get four HQs because they are supposed to be an army led by Heros. In third edition you had to take one HQ for every 750 points (round down) so anything over 1500 points had a mandatory 3 HQs. Two at 751 points. Its this way because its always been this way.

And yet Tyranids suddenly care about having just the amount of 'heroes', so does Chaos, Orks, and other armies? Yeah no, that should have been dropped.

The only concession I'm willing to give on them being marines +1 for no reason is the Wolf Claw. I agree that it got its bonus for no apparent reason and was probably unwarranted.

Frost Blades/Axes were originally Power Weapons + 1

Grey Hunters were better then all other Tactical Marines, both in unique special abilities, and cheaper.

Long Fangs cheaper, more effective, there's plenty more but that's 5th:


2nd Edition: Higher WS, ability to take the assault cyclone terminators to break every army.

The old long fangs were also stupidly expensive when compared to Marine Devistators. The Leader was 28 points and came with nothing more than PA and a Bolter. Its amazing how many people forget this part.

*Checks his 3E books*

Long fang Pack Leaders: 36 points
Devastator Veteran Sarge: 30

Long Fangs have True Grit and Fire Control, and the Pack Leader can take special weapon options but the Veteran Sarge cannot, and thus is stuck with the bolter and chainsword. Oh and the Space Wolves can take a Land Raider for a transport, the space wolves are LD9 (including base unit) while the SM need the Veteran Sarge for LD9, the Pack leader is A1 while Veteran Sarge is A2 due to Terminator Honors.

It's not like Space Marines have things Space Wolves don't at all.

Ribon fox that was awesome. Still going to start a space wolves army with puppies because I like dogs, but I might print that story and paste it in my codex hahahaa

pm713 wrote:
It's not like Space Marines have things Space Wolves don't at all.

*Cough* Thunder Fire Cannons, Veterans *Cough*

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
My favourite part about all these threads is how, like any Space Wolf related thread, it turns into this almost witch hunt/religious pseudo debate. Their main anger seems to come from the fact that the source of powers for Rune Priests comes from a planet yet they remain in the Imperium. An Imperium headed by a "God Emperor" who has lived for centuries on a chair that they sacrifice thousands to in effort to fuel it. I just find myself astonished that out of all the insane, unrealistic, out of this world fiction, it's the Wolves of Fenris who catch the most flak for not being a cookie cutter of the other nine million chapters out there.

"You're different and I hate you for it." - The generalization of what every person who has a vendetta against wolves says.

I just find it amusing that in a game meant for adults, it's the most childish who crawl out of the woodwork to complain about these things. Especially the ones complaining about the psyker powers that NO LONGER EXIST.

Instead of them turning their annoyance towards GW and its writers, they turn on the Space Wolves players and seem to have this goal in shaming them for wanting to play something different when every other chapter is the exact same as the last in a different paint scheme.

Who cares if it makes total sense? Who cares if it doesn't follow the status quo? I have one very big realization for anyone that complains about things like this.

Warhammer 40K IS A GAME.

A GAME FOR FUN.

If your life is so dominated by a game that it causes you to do nothing but complain, ridicule and berate your fellow players than I believe you have a much bigger problem in your own personal life that should take precedence over whether or not a passage from a book related to a game makes sense to you.

There are those among the Dakka community who know that this applies to them and whether or not they want to admit to it is up to them.

I fully expect to catch a lot of flame for this but before that happens, I'd like to point out that those who have these issues against the Space Wolves should be stating them in 40k Background and not General Discussion. The fact that it leaks into what could be considered the out of character section should show just how small minded some people can be.

Wow, that is some brilliant and completely invented persecution. You're using some really strong words, like "hate", and "witch hunt". Not liking a faction in the fluff is not the same as "shaming" or "berating" people who play them. Unless, of course, you believe that you actually are a Space Wolf. The reason why it is in General Discussion is because this thread is relevant to both the tabletop game and the background. You are turning a dislike of an element of a fictional setting into perceived personal attacks, and then getting amazingly defensive over it and using Caps Lock.

If you'd read the thread, there are plenty of reasons given for why people dislike the Wolves other than their hypocrisy regarding psychic powers, and it is far from the main one. That's what it is; hypocrisy. Their power could not possibly come from Fenris, but the Wolves get away with it by stubbornly insisting that they don't have psykers.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
the Wolves of Fenris who catch the most flak for not being a cookie cutter of the other nine million chapters out there.

Are you saying that all Chapters except the Space Wolves are "cookie-cutter"? If you are, surely you can see why that would be a problem. However, that's not it. No Chapter is "cookie-cutter". Something people dislike about the Wolves in the game is that they have the same things as every other Space Marine, except arbitrarily better. Then there's the absurd overuse of wolf-related terminology. Their planet is already called Fenris, and they themselves have "Wolves" in their name, but this is far from enough. They have to ride wolves, name absolutely everything after wolves - they even become wolfmen, in their own wolfy version of the Black Rage!

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Wow, that is some brilliant and completely invented persecution. You're using some really strong words, like "hate", and "witch hunt". Not liking a faction in the fluff is not the same as "shaming" or "berating" people who play them. Unless, of course, you believe that you actually are a Space Wolf. The reason why it is in General Discussion is because this thread is relevant to both the tabletop game and the background. You are turning a dislike of an element of a fictional setting into perceived personal attacks, and then getting amazingly defensive over it and using Caps Lock.

If you'd read the thread, there are plenty of reasons given for why people dislike the Wolves other than their hypocrisy regarding psychic powers, and it is far from the main one. That's what it is; hypocrisy. Their power could not possibly come from Fenris, but the Wolves get away with it by stubbornly insisting that they don't have psykers.

At what point is it invented persecution? I've been on Dakka little more than a year and what seems like at least nine out of ten times, any Space Wolf thread posted devolves into people criticizing Space Wolves. And I use such strong words because they are completely applicable because I have seen several instances that they apply to. Not to mention the number of times that people have gone on to imply that anyone that plays and supports Space Wolves is stupid for perpetuating a chapter that they don't agree with. The only reason that anyone could not see this is if they in fact were one of those people who has done so before. And if my use of Caps Lock for wanting to point something out bothers you so much, I'll be sure to avoid it in the future.

And I have been following the thread but that's not the point, it's that this thread has become like every other thread with Space Wolves in that it's come down to one group demanding that Space Wolves players justify what they are or admit to being something they aren't. Just because their powers weren't the same as every other chapter didn't mean they were some spawn of chaos. Unless GW says otherwise then that's just how it is. I haven't seen a single instance of a Space Wolves player mentioning the Rune Priest's abilities came from their home planet without someone popping up to try and force them into being something they aren't just because the other person doesn't like how GW has done something. There are tons of SW players that openly admit that the codex desperately needs some aspects to be changed and I'm among them and hoping that the next codex is more in line with the other chapters while still having some independence.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
the Wolves of Fenris who catch the most flak for not being a cookie cutter of the other nine million chapters out there.

Are you saying that all Chapters except the Space Wolves are "cookie-cutter"? If you are, surely you can see why that would be a problem. However, that's not it. No Chapter is "cookie-cutter". Something people dislike about the Wolves in the game is that they have the same things as every other Space Marine, except arbitrarily better. Then there's the absurd overuse of wolf-related terminology. Their planet is already called Fenris, and they themselves have "Wolves" in their name, but this is far from enough. They have to ride wolves, name absolutely everything after wolves - they even become wolfmen, in their own wolfy version of the Black Rage!

Every other chapter must be the exact same since no one ever seems to complain about the things they get or do that no one else does. I never see anyone complain about Blood Angels getting psyker dreadnoughts or Dark Angels having Xeno allies when their fluff is adamant that they have no care for any xenos whatsoever. Or all the things that Codex Marines get to bring to the table that SW don't. It's only Wolves who face that persecution even though their fluff explains it all, it's just that people don't like the explanation so they sit around, whine about it and get in any Space Wolves player's face and force it down their throat that their chosen army is wrong and they have to agree or be forced to listen to more complaints.

I will agree with you on the over-wolfing of everything. I've said before in other threads that I hope that with the new codex comes a name change along with the new codex. I'm praying that they start to lean more towards the viking side of their fluff and away from the wolf side. But even here you've ended with complaining about the wolves but not about the Blood Angels. It's fine for them to turn into vampires and feast on people in a cannibalistic act that would surely have them executed for such an act but the Space Wolves similarly succumbing to the effects of their gene seed is too ridiculous to comprehend. I wasn't even trying to defend the fluff for being what it is in my last post and you still took it upon yourself to point out all the reasons you think that Space Wolves are wrong, which only goes to prove my point that anyone who says something even remotely positive about Space Wolves is instantly bombarded with reasons why they're wrong.

Actually, the Blood Angel hate during 3rd edition was legendary. It got to the point where part of setting up the game I got to hear each and every so-called ofense a BA players committed, followed quickly by "But your not like that." GW balanced that out by ignoring them for so long most people forgot. There was a brief hate resurgence during 5th, but that was more panic about a new codex than actual power on the tabletop.

The Space Wolves have the unfortunate situation of GW overpowering them with each codex or ignoring them. So each new codex the bandwagoners jump on play hard and hurt the SW's rep and then move on to the new shiny leaving the (real) SWs to take the heat. It doesn't help that most SW players I've met really identify with the character of their army and consequently take greater offense to criticism.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
At what point is it invented persecution?

Examples of invented persecution will be highlighted in olive.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
I've been on Dakka little more than a year and what seems like at least nine out of ten times, any Space Wolf thread posted devolves into people criticizing Space Wolves.

This thread is six pages long and is specifically about why people don't like Space Wolves (why they are "neglected"), so this complaint does not apply here. However, this is not because the Space Wolves and their players are the target of some unjust conspiracy, but because some people don't like Space Wolves. You're acting like this is somehow unfair.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
And I use such strong words because they are completely applicable because I have seen several instances that they apply to.

You've seen instances where the following are all "completely applicable" regarding Space Wolf players?

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:

witch hunt
anger
"[Space Wolf players are] different and I hate [them] for it."
vendetta
childish
annoyance
they turn on the Space Wolves players
shaming
[people who don't like the Space Wolves] do nothing but complain
ridicule
berate
flame

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
Not to mention the number of times that people have gone on to imply that anyone that plays and supports Space Wolves is stupid for perpetuating a chapter that they don't agree with.

Nobody has said this.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
The only reason that anyone could not see this is if they in fact were one of those people who has done so before.

So everyone who disagrees with you is one of your persecutors and they will never see it? Right.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
And if my use of Caps Lock for wanting to point something out bothers you so much, I'll be sure to avoid it in the future.

I was pointing out that you were specifically telling people that it's not a big deal by using Caps Lock, which is generally a sign of over-reacting. In short, you were making a big deal out of telling people not to make a big deal of it. In your own words, if 40k is just a game, why are you so upset about people disliking your faction?

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
And I have been following the thread but that's not the point, it's that this thread has become like every other thread with Space Wolves in that it's come down to one group demanding that Space Wolves players justify what they are or admit to being something they aren't.

Seriously, look at what you're saying. Nobody is "demanding" anything. You're making it sound like Space Wolf players are victims being blackmailed into not testifying against their victimisers, or you're under threat of being tortured by the Inquisition until you testify you're a witch. Also, actually, it is the point - I said that in direct response to your assertion that the main problem people have is the Rune Priest thing, which a read of this thread (in which people have voiced their problems with the Space Wolves) would show.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
Just because their powers weren't the same as every other chapter didn't mean they were some spawn of chaos.

Nobody has said this, unless you are taking my previous post about Fenris being a Daemon World completely wrong. My point was that planets don't have innate power. Not that Fenris actually is a Daemon World, but that it would have to be a Daemon World in order to have its own magical power and therefore Fenris does not, because Fenris is not a Daemon World. You take this much further to imply, all on your own, that this means Space Wolves are "some spawn of Chaos".

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
Unless GW says otherwise then that's just how it is. I haven't seen a single instance of a Space Wolves player mentioning the Rune Priest's abilities came from their home planet without someone popping up to try and force them into being something they aren't just because the other person doesn't like how GW has done something. There are tons of SW players that openly admit that the codex desperately needs some aspects to be changed and I'm among them and hoping that the next codex is more in line with the other chapters while still having some independence.

The point is that nobody actually believes them, the reason being that it completely does not fit into 40k whatsoever. All magic comes from the Warp, which kind of a hugely important aspect of the setting. Fenris just randomly having its own unrelated magic is completely absurd. I didn't think any Space Wolves players genuinely believed it.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
the Wolves of Fenris who catch the most flak for not being a cookie cutter of the other nine million chapters out there.

Are you saying that all Chapters except the Space Wolves are "cookie-cutter"? If you are, surely you can see why that would be a problem. However, that's not it. No Chapter is "cookie-cutter". Something people dislike about the Wolves in the game is that they have the same things as every other Space Marine, except arbitrarily better. Then there's the absurd overuse of wolf-related terminology. Their planet is already called Fenris, and they themselves have "Wolves" in their name, but this is far from enough. They have to ride wolves, name absolutely everything after wolves - they even become wolfmen, in their own wolfy version of the Black Rage!

Every other chapter must be the exact same since no one ever seems to complain about the things they get or do that no one else does. I never see anyone complain about Blood Angels getting psyker dreadnoughts or Dark Angels having Xeno allies when their fluff is adamant that they have no care for any xenos whatsoever. Or all the things that Codex Marines get to bring to the table that SW don't.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. What about Kaldor Draigo or Marneus Calgar, whose fluff is continually mocked for its stupidity? When the Allies chart came out in 6th edition, chief among the complaints were those about the almost random nature of the incredibly fluff-breaking ally levels. Also, the Librarian Dreadnought is a unique unit in the Blood Angels army, which is to be expected from a variant Codex. What would not be well-received is if their regular Dreadnoughts were cheaper and could take more and better weapons than everyone elses', with the only explanation being "because they're the Blood Angels".

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
It's only Wolves who face that persecution even though their fluff explains it all, it's just that people don't like the explanation so they sit around, whine about it and get in any Space Wolves player's face and force it down their throat that their chosen army is wrong and they have to agree or be forced to listen to more complaints.

Kaldor Draigo's fluff is explained. He just carved his master's name into a Daemon Primarch's heart, is all. Are you still talking about the Rune Priest thing? Nobody is saying that your "chosen army is wrong".

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
But even here you've ended with complaining about the wolves but not about the Blood Angels. It's fine for them to turn into vampires and feast on people in a cannibalistic act that would surely have them executed for such an act but the Space Wolves similarly succumbing to the effects of their gene seed is too ridiculous to comprehend.

Is this a thread about the Blood Angels? No. Did I say that the Space Wolves having a Black Rage equivalent was "too ridiculous to comprehend"? No. I mentioned it as part of my criticism of, as you say, the "over-wolfing of everything". Their Black Rage equivalent is that they literally turn into wolf-men. They're called Wulfen! The Flaw in the Blood Angels is a huge part of their fluff, and is all to do with their Primarch and whatnot. It is a big part of them. The Blood Angels also don't become angel-like when they succumb to the Black Rage, and the Red Thirst is obviously vampire-related, but it's comes off more as raw madness and cannibalism. The Space Wolves, on the other hand, just have wolf-men because hey, that happens sometimes and wolves are cool. Wolf wolf wolf wolf. However, the Blood Angels have guys with nipple-armour and once almost wiped themselves out by suicidally attacking a Space Hulk - then, around 600 years later, they did exactly the same thing.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
I wasn't even trying to defend the fluff for being what it is in my last post and you still took it upon yourself to point out all the reasons you think that Space Wolves are wrong, which only goes to prove my point that anyone who says something even remotely positive about Space Wolves is instantly bombarded with reasons why they're wrong.

I was responding to your statement that they "catch the most flak for not being a cookie cutter of the other nine million chapters out there" by detailing some of the criticisms given in this very thread, which you then took to be an unwarranted attack. I don't think the Space Wolves are "wrong". Your point, however, is completely wrong. You can say plenty positive about the Space Wolves without being "instantly bombarded with reasons why" you're "wrong". Nobody is telling you that you are "wrong" for liking the Space Wolves as they are. Furthermore, just because someone doesn't like aspects of them doesn't mean they dislike them, or hate them, as you might say. Nobody hates or dislikes Space Wolf players for being Space Wolf players.

Did you know that sometimes people like things that other people don't? Probably the most significant internal divide between players of the same faction in 40k is between those who like the "Newcrons" and those who don't. This doesn't mean they actually hate each other.

EDIT:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
It doesn't help that most SW players I've met really identify with the character of their army and consequently take greater offense to criticism.

Really starting to see that.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
It doesn't help that most SW players I've met really identify with the character of their army and consequently take greater offense to criticism.

You also have to take in to account Space Wolf players get hounded for their choice more often than most other players. I started collecting SW in 2nd edition because I love Wolves and I love Norse things and I prefer CC to shooting so it was a blatantly obvious choice. One of the first things I remember is the shop keeper railing at me for collecting the puppies. I didn't even know if they were a powerful army or not (at the time I was new to the game and simply assumed the armies were balanced).

I also collect half a dozen other armies and have never heard as much whinging from other players about those armies as I have about the SW.

I understand some people don't like SW and I dislike a lot of the aspects of their fluff and presentation (I don't like the absurd wolfiness either), but people love to attack SW's with such malice that it's not wonder SW players sometimes get a bit defensive.

This thread has become a flame war. I think that space wolves are an amazing army and I hope their codex does well. I hope they get some cool formations and the pre-order bonus is a real life battle axe and a wooden barrel cast tankard.

I want to see more wolves on the field and dammit I'll ally with you and totally not ever abandon you in the first turn of the battle. Promise.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
It doesn't help that most SW players I've met really identify with the character of their army and consequently take greater offense to criticism.

You also have to take in to account Space Wolf players get hounded for their choice more often than most other players. I started collecting SW in 2nd edition because I love Wolves and I love Norse things and I prefer CC to shooting so it was a blatantly obvious choice. One of the first things I remember is the shop keeper railing at me for collecting the puppies. I didn't even know if they were a powerful army or not (at the time I was new to the game and simply assumed the armies were balanced).

I also collect half a dozen other armies and have never heard as much whinging from other players about those armies as I have about the SW.

I understand some people don't like SW and I dislike a lot of the aspects of their fluff and presentation (I don't like the absurd wolfiness either), but people love to attack SW's with such malice that it's not wonder SW players sometimes get a bit defensive.

I own a Heldrake. I own a Riptide. I may own a Revenant in a month or two. Should I start feeling like a special snowflake that everyone hates?

EDIT: It's hardly a flame war, Duo.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
I own a Heldrake. I own a Riptide. I may own a Revenant in a month or two. Should I start feeling like a special snowflake that everyone hates?

EDIT: It's hardly a flame war, Duo.

What are you on about? I never said anything about feeling like a special snowflake, I'm just talking about the reality if SW's get ragged on with such malice for so long that you'll start having people being defensive. You get Tau players being all defensive as well at times, but that's a more recent thing since they became top dogs because of GW's pathetic ability to balance their game.

Also, those other things are nothing alike. People have been ragging on Space Wolves as a whole for the nearly 20 years I've been collecting. It's not the same as people whinging about the latest power unit that you bought for whatever reason.

Simple reality, if you attack something a lot, prepare to hear the occasional defensive person.

People disliking space wolves for having awful background and silly rules is not some attack on the player for daring to choose the faction. People in general are not going to like really bad background pieces like Draigo or Calgar holding off an entire ork army by himself. Nor are they going to like when an army gets a kinds of silly bonuses just cause. Also space wolves don't get ragged on nearly as much as Tau, Eldar and Necron players IMO. Have you seen the sheer number of tau hate threads or how people constantly say how they don't fit in 40k and should be removed. Shame really since they are rather interesting faction for not being exactly the same as everyone else.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
I own a Heldrake. I own a Riptide. I may own a Revenant in a month or two. Should I start feeling like a special snowflake that everyone hates?

EDIT: It's hardly a flame war, Duo.

What are you on about? I never said anything about feeling like a special snowflake, I'm just talking about the reality if SW's get ragged on with such malice for so long that you'll start having people being defensive. You get Tau players being all defensive as well at times, but that's a more recent thing since they became top dogs because of GW's pathetic ability to balance their game.

Also, those other things are nothing alike. People have been ragging on Space Wolves as a whole for the nearly 20 years I've been collecting. It's not the same as people whinging about the latest power unit that you bought for whatever reason.

Simple reality, if you attack something a lot, prepare to hear the occasional defensive person.

It's different when the person is being defensive of themselves, and treating any and all criticism of the Space Wolves as a serious personal attack. "Malice" is a very strong word. People dislike all kinds of things for all kinds of reasons. It's okay to be defensive about something you care about, but it's important to defend the actual topic and not yourself. It should be "the Space Wolves are actually really interesting and here's why" or just "I like their background", not "we Space Wolf players are much-maligned pariahs, outcasts, hated and misunderstood". Honestly, making it so personal is really strange. Not that you are, mind, but Crimson Devil's comment suggests that this is relatively common. The same applies for everyone else, too. Blood Angel, Tyranid, Dark Eldar, whatever - getting actually offended is totally uncalled for.

I used those models as examples because they are probably the most disliked units in the game at the moment (the Heldrake less than in 2012, but still). I was trying to point out that it would be silly for me to get actually offended if someone started talking about how they don't think Heldrakes fit into the Chaos fluff, or whatever.