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Greetings!

Being a player who much prefers to rush into the enemies line to pull off some proppa' krumpin' rather than playing the objectives many times, I am inherently drawn to Death Star builds. Having tried a smaller Nob Bikerz star in 6th, I was intending on expanding it into a full blown killin' machine with the release of the new codex. However, as of Waaagh! Ghazghkull, a new contender has appeared: the WAAAGH! Council. One has speed, the other a brutal amount of killyness unmatched by anything I've ever seen (Slight hyperbole). So now I need help deciding between the two, as well as some tips on how to support them with my leftover points as I am very new to Orks in general. The stars in mind are either:

A) Nob Bikerz, 2 CADS (1 Vanilla, 1 W!G)
- Warboss w. Klaw, Bike, Attack Squig, Lucky Stikk 150pts
- Warboss w. Klaw, Bike, Attack Squig, Big Bosspole 145pts
- Big Mek w. Killsaw, Bike, Attack Squig, Mega Force Field 180pts
- Painboy w. Bike 75pts
- 10 Nob Bikerz w. 2 Klaws 550pts
1100 points total

B) WAAAGH! Council + Vanilla CAD
- Ghazghkull w. Attack Squig 240pts
- 2x Warboss w. Mega Armour/Klaw, Attack Squig 230pts
- Warboss w. Mega Armour/Klaw, Attack Squig, Lucky Stikk 140pts
- Mad Dok Grotsnik w. Attack Squig 175pts
- Big Mek w. Mega Armour, Killsaw&Klaw, Attack Squig, Mega Force Field 175pts
- 10 Nobz, Waaagh! Banner 200pts
- Battlewagon w. Boarding Plank 125pts
1285 points total

I realize these are both way overboard with toyz, and while that's how I like them I do welcome opinions on what can be cut without reducing too much of the 'krumpiness. I might have gone slightly overboard with the squigs, as an example. Anyhow, in both Stars the plan is to use a Lucky Stikk boss to tank small arms fire with re-rollable saves, and then use LoS! when either the Stikk fails twice or we're talking ID to let Nobz take the hit. The bikes gets 27 S5, 3 S9ap2 AB and 8 S10ap2 attacks off the charge (or while charging multiple units). The Council increases that to 30 S5, 8 S9ap2 (4 with AB) and a whooping 21 S10ap2 attacks, Without charge bonus. Charging in against a more numerous enemy (once the ablative nobs have been used) would yield on average 42(!) S9/10 ap2 attacks thanks to Rampage. Add 6 more for each Klaw you add to the Nobz.

Weaknesses are the lack of proper CC ++saves, and the slow advance of the Council out of their Wagon. Also, they eat huge amounts of points. Short of 2K, any of these stars would be hard to support, so let's assume that's the points value we're working with. What star would you choose, how would alter their loadout and how would you support it? Remember that the objective is not winning as much as having the star wreak as much havoc as possible. All I wan' iz a good fight!

10 Nobz are complete overkill either way, I wouldn't take any more than 3-5, since the rest of the unit already evaporates anything they touch. For the same reason, you should drop all the attack squigs. Seriously, what are a couple of rerolls going to fix if 15+ PK attacks fail to obliterate the enemy.

In addition to that, I think people with the Warboss edition said that Thrakka's Formation can't be joined, so no Lukky Stikk there.

The first one has the advantage of the two warbosses (and maybe the big mek) being able to split off and kill something on their own, while everyone is forced to stay with Thrakka in the second unit.

However, Thrakka gets a total of three warlord traits when you buy is council, and you've got more killing and staying power in general, due to mega armor, 2+ LoS! on almost everyone, increased WS, rampage as tarpit protection and not to mention the 2++ during that one turn when you want to kill something like the Swarmlord, Appadon or Lysander.

So one is faster and more flexible, the other hits harder.

I'd take normal Warbikes in that 1st death star. You save 9 points for 2 bikerz vs 1 Nob, and the normal Bikers can get a cheaper Nob with PK in their unit (like 30 points cheaper than a Nob with PK).

 More Dakka wrote:
I'd take normal Warbikes in that 1st death star. You save 9 points for 2 bikerz vs 1 Nob, and the normal Bikers can get a cheaper Nob with PK in their unit (like 30 points cheaper than a Nob with PK).

This.

15 Warbikers + Nob with bosspole and klaw + Bikerboss with klaw and gazbag's bike + Painboy with bike and orderly comes in at only 510 points.
The pure dakka this unit can put out cannot be underestimated. Many units will be crippled on overwatch alone if they even try to charge. This unit puts out 48 twinlinked S5 AP5 shots and 3 twinlinked S6 AP3 shots every shooting phase. That's 26.5 hits at regular BS and 14 hits at BS1, not counting the extra AP3 shots.

This is an extremely shooty unit that can also steamroll most anything in combat as well. 56 S4 WS4 attacks (but casualties will most likely happen before then), 4 S5 poisoned attacks, 4 S9 AP2 attacks, and 5 S10 AP2 attacks on the charge is enough to kill pretty much any deathstar out there. Hell, you don't even really need the S4 attacks with all the other attacks.

This unit is also waaayy more durable than nob bikers for the points, and is three times as shooty. 4+ cover (or armor) followed by 5+ FnP blocks tons of stuff.

This is THE new Ork deathstar. Pretty much Nob bikers upgraded in every way. It's fast, can shoot like crazy, and steamroll through anything within a few hundred points of the same cost. What more could you want? For 510 points this is a bargain when you consider the dream teams of most armies usually run in excess of 800+ points.

Nob Bikers are still just as powerful as they were in the last codex, in my opinion. Well, let me rephrase: For almost the same cost, you have a nearly equal unit in terms of power level. There are a couple new weaknesses, though: To get an invuln, FNP, and your Warboss attached you are now using three HQ slots. Plus, they can't be troops, so if you are using the BRB Force Organization, you can't get an Invuln and they don't get objective secured. Lastly, since you are getting your Invuln from a KFF Mek, you have one more person in the squad who it's absolutely vital to keep alive but doesn't deal much damage. (Along with your Waaagh! banner and Painboy.)

However, that's not why Biker Nobz are no longer the cream of the crop.
The reason Biker Nobz are failing now is because there is just a much better alternative. For less than half the cost per model, you lose some options (With only a couple Power Klaws at most in the squad, one from the Boss and one from the Nob,) but get more attacks. The attacks are 1 Strength less, but you have far more models. Plus, a full squad is cheaper, and they're just as durable. And, now that you can attach a Painboy or even a Big Mek with a KFF to your bikers, they have the same access to durability-boosting buddies as the Nobs do. (Heck, you can even take a buffed up WAAAGH! banner in one squad if you want to.) Your shooting will be stronger than Biker Nobz, you'll not have to worry about Instant Death so much, and while you take a small hit in Close Combat damage output you get a few more attacks which more than makes up for it.
Plus, it's cheaper, so you aren't pouring a full army's points into one unit.

Exactly Waaaghpower. I don't think Nob Bikers are worse per say but warbikers are just way better now. However I do have to say the invuln hit is very hard, and I don't think a KFF is really worth it nor a good replacement for a couple reasons. First of all, it's really expensive for, like you said, a guy who really doesn't pack any punch. He's essentially a 110 point nob in the squad. Also, needing to keep everybody in a 6" bubble is a very bad idea, because there are now so many blast and template weapons that can stack on wounds like crazy and punish you for bunching up. Finally, the KFF takes up an HQ slot, and Orks now have arguably the most crowded HQ slot in the entire game. It's really a shame that we don't have anything outside of the FoC like the last two codexes. I'm not even sure a Warboss is really a good choice anymore and that in many cases it's best to just take Painboyz.

I would vote for a Biker type of death start because of the movement, better shooting and higher toughness. I had 10 nob bikers that I used in 6th and now I am breaking of arms to make them warbikers. For less points you get more shots.

I just ran the following with some success.

Warboss
-Bike
-BP
-PK
-Da Lucky Stikk

Painboy
-Bike

Big Mek
-Bike
-KFF

5 Warbikers
-Boss Nob
-PK
-BP

I certainly see the point of the cheaper warbiker mobs and the fact that the only piece of wargear that nobz get over them is now the WAAAGH! banner, which the Lucky Stikk mirrors anyhow. I'll certainly run a star based on them from now on.

I'm going to try out the Council star as well though - in combination with the Blitz Brigade, I can scout 5 wagons with the star and burnas or meganobz (or just plain boyz) up and be ready to engage turn 2 no matter what. Just need to squeeze it all in at low enough points. Using only the formations ends up at 1427 points (4 nobz, no extra warboss, no squigs). So it's not that great a choice below 2k I suppose, but I'll try it anyhow.

Minimum points for the Blitz Brigade with rams and boarding planks is 650
Minimum points for the Council of the Waaagh! is 614, adding the special KFF, big choppas and 'eavy armor for the warbosses bumps that to 707
Then, to take boyz at all, you must add a CAD with a HQ (painboy makes most sense here) adding another 50 point before boyz, for a total of 1407 points minimum requirement for that tactic. A unit of slugga boyz with PK nob is 160, so to fit the whole thing into 2k, you'll probably have to skip on having a KFF on your mega-death star at all, which is a bad idea IMO, or leave one of the wagons empty.

Still jealous of White Scars Move Through Cover. Maybe there'll be a supplement HQ that grants it to a unit or 3.

I lost more bikers last Thursday night to DT tests than any other single factor. Even with a 4+ armor and 5+ FNP. Eh, that's why we take 15 I guess?

ive swapped my must-take 7man Nob Biker+Boss unit in the old codex for a 15man Warbiker unit with nob pk/bp, a painboy on bike, and warboss. Its dramatically more wounds (17 models vs 8, 2 of these models have 2 wounds and warboss has 3), doesnt give two craps about S10 other than it denies my FNP since im single wounded models, has the attacks to melt numbers compared to my bikernob unit sometimes struggling, all WS5 thanks to Da Lucky Stikk, and its STILL 200pts cheaper lol. Only drawback is the HoW are S3 rather than S4 and i only have 2 PKs instead of 3 (counting the boss here). I'll live with it lol.

Even if the Nobz didnt lose their invul i wouldnt take bikernobz anymore. Two big reasons here being the sheer number of attacks difference and Kombi Skorchas are 10pts now, not 5, so my Bikernobz are literally the same cost as before yet much less durable thanks to no invul save, and the increase in Kombi Skorcha cost replacing the previous Cybork Body purchase.
Regular nobz are so pointless. With a PK theyre more expensive and squishier than a MANz for some reason, and footnobz have always been dumb anyway.

I am actually going to take a Big Mek instead of the warboss for the bike squad. I will be tooling him up with KFF, Killsaw & Lucky Stikk. He doesn't hit like a WB but will help keep the boys around him safer then the WB. He is also a bit better at killing vehicles with the Killsaw and can even peel off before combat to attack some tanks etc. If you roll up the +1s Warlord trait from the book you can hit with a S10 Killsaw. Ouch. He is better to stay with the boys though to give the WS bonuses.

So I was thinking of this

Biker Boss, Klaw, BP, Lucky Stikk
Biker Boss, Headwompa
Biker Painboy
Biker Big Mek,KFF, Killsaw
3 Deffkoptas, Buzzsaw

So h+r, outflank, FNP, kff save, jink, 'ere we go, 30 attacks many AP2, lots of rokkits and dakkaguns and lessz than 600 pts.

The 15 bikes in the squad with pain boy and either WB or BM is less than 600pts and you get 17 models.

This has a lot of two wound models and h+r.

 herpguy wrote:
15 Warbikers + Nob with bosspole and klaw + Bikerboss with klaw and gazbag's bike + Painboy with bike and orderly comes in at only 510 points.

Now that this unit has been dubbed a Death Star, it makes me want to sculpt a Darthvader helmet for my Warboss.