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The new Codex: Orks comes with a nice bit of Wargear: the Gitfinda.

"A model with a Gitfinda that remained stationary during its movement phase has Ballistic Skill 3 until the end of the turn."

Relentless (from a Warbike) or SaP (from Mega Armour) allows the model to count as stationary when firing certain weapon types.

Would Relentless or SaP allow a model to move and claim the Bs3?

Debate!

Relentless specifies that you count as stationary for purposes of the weapon. Gitfinda isn't a weapon, so I don't think it would work. It's an interesting thought though!

I voted no but I didn't read the message. Most ork weapons are assault which doesn't work with relentless or SnP, but I guess a case can be made of it working with SaG + SnP.

Much like Orbital Bombardment in past codices, Relentless does nothing if the rule specifically states that the model must remain stationary to use a piece of wargear or to gain the benefits of a special rule.

relentless models can shoot with heavy, salvo, or ordanance weapons, counting as stationary, even if they moved. They may also charge in the same turn if they fire pretty much any ranged weapon type we have seen rules for so far.

Yeah, RAW it seems it only works for certain weapons, then gives you permission to charge.

RAI It seems you count as stationary and would get the BS3

HIWPI I would stick to the RAW not specifically saying it lets you, and hope a faq comes out that says you can, and until then not do it :(

 Rautakanki wrote:
I voted no but I didn't read the message. Most ork weapons are assault which doesn't work with relentless or SnP, but I guess a case can be made of it working with SaG + SnP.

Shokk Attack Gun on a Warbike is a option now

With Ammo-runts for those sweet re-rolls (no idea how they hang off the bike with all the ammo, but never mind...)

I disagree with your claims on RAI. I see nothing that indicates anything other than what the RAW says. This isn't the first time this situation has come up in the rules.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Rautakanki wrote:
I voted no but I didn't read the message. Most ork weapons are assault which doesn't work with relentless or SnP, but I guess a case can be made of it working with SaG + SnP.

Shokk Attack Gun on a Warbike is a option now

With Ammo-runts for those sweet re-rolls (no idea how they hang off the bike with all the ammo, but never mind...)

Huh. That's pretty sweet. I guess there's some use for the plastic SAG's then.

Anyway the Gitfinda rule is pretty clear. You get +1 BS for the rest of your turn if you remained stationary during your movement phase. It doesn't even mention shooting like Relentless does. With relentless they count as stationary if they moved, but they already have lost the opportunity to get +1 BS in the movement phase.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Rautakanki wrote:
I voted no but I didn't read the message. Most ork weapons are assault which doesn't work with relentless or SnP, but I guess a case can be made of it working with SaG + SnP.

Shokk Attack Gun on a Warbike is a option now

With Ammo-runts for those sweet re-rolls (no idea how they hang off the bike with all the ammo, but never mind...)

With a shock attack gun, they ARE the ammo! :-)

There is no doubt about it not working.

Every time we quote the Relentless rule, people usually say 'the model counts as stationary'. This was fine since there hasn't been any reason to ever check the conditions on it, until now.

Even if it did, the way that the Gitfinda is worded is very clear that the models must not move in their movement phase to gain the benefit. So it's a simple question 'Did the model move in the movement phase?' If the answer is yes, then no bonus for Gitfinda. It's that simple. On a somewhat related not, the Gitfinda is also specific for how long it works as well. I remember having a discussion about a Gitfinda model on an ADL using his BS on a Quad-gun. Seems to not be allowed by the rule, but it didn't matter since the model with it was joined to some Grotz.

The debate reminds me of the ID/EW/FnP interaction that creeps up from time to time, and it's the same situation here. The timing on each rule doesn't interact with each other.

As I said in one of the other threads, this is not a broken mechanic, and I probably wouldn't bring it up until the game was over. I don't normally check my opponents lists before the game so wouldn't catch it before hand. Anyone that loses a game vs. Orks isn't going to lose because the Ork player spammed Gitfindas on as many bikes as he can take, but this doesn't give him permission to bring them w/o asking his opponent first. I wouldn't be surprised if GW came out and FAQ'd it to work together, but until then, we shouldn't be recommending that anyone do it.

I voted yes, but would have changed it to "other" now if I could.
Seems to me like gitfinda works with relentless as long as the model is firing a heavy/salvo/ordnance weapon, and the ork is limited to BS2 when firing assault/pistol weapons.

Just hold the firing model still, while 4 of your friends slowly move the table underneath him 6 or 12" in the right direction. (thats kinda how space travel works in Futurama anyways, and thats sci-fi too)

Great, if gitfinder works like that then I'll be able to move my GK Chaptermaster and use Orbital Bombardment as well! This is great news!

While only relevant to the SAGs and sometimes the random weapon relic from the supplement (no other heavy or ordnance weapons can be combined with gitfinders), the exact rules allow you to shoot that weapon counting as stationary. It does not allow you to use other wargear as if stationary, no gitfinda bonus.

Since the SAG mek rarely wants to move, a mostly irrelevant discussion.

 Jidmah wrote:
While only relevant to the SAGs and sometimes the random weapon relic from the supplement (no other heavy or ordnance weapons can be combined with gitfinders), the exact rules allow you to shoot that weapon counting as stationary. It does not allow you to use other wargear as if stationary, no gitfinda bonus.

Since the SAG mek rarely wants to move, a mostly irrelevant discussion.

Yes, but a lot of lists are showing up with Bikes taking the Gitfinda, which is why it came up in the first place.

Relentless (as well as Slow and Purposeful) doesn't work for assault weapons which is about every weapon that a bike or mega-armoured models can take in the ork codex.

List of heavy weapons:
Bubblechucka (Mek gun)
Deffgun (Lootaz, Killa-Dakka relic may randomly become this)
Deffstorm mega-shoota (Gorkanaut)
Grotzooka (Killa Kanz)
Kannon (Mek gun, Battlewagon)
Kustom-mega kannon (Mek gun)
Lobba (Mek gun, Battlewagon)
Skorcha Missile (Burna bommer)
Smasha (Mek gun)
Supa-gatler (Stompa)
Supa-rokkit (Stompa)
Traktor kannon (Mek gun)
Zzap gun (Mek gun, Battlewagon)

List of ordnance:
Killkannon (Battlewagon, Looted Wagon)
SAG (Big Mek)

No salvo for orks.

Units able to take Gitfindas:
Warboss
Big Mek
Painboy (no access to any shooting weapons)

Out of all of these guns only the SAG and the Deffgun can be found on non-vehicle, non-artilery models at all. Lootaz can't take Gitfindas, so unless you turn your Killa-Dakka into a deffgun no BS3 for that one.
The SAG can benefit from a bike/MA and a Gitfinda at the same time, so it's the only candidate for that kind of combination.

So even if they Gitfinda would allow you to shoot at BS3 when counting as stationary, only a single weapon would ever benefit from it, and that one is large blast. Hurray!