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Would love to get your thoughts on my list -- as you can probably tell pretty quickly, I'm looking to maximize objective secured and flood the objectives. Two test games have gone well, but I certainly feel there's still room to improve!

Iron Hands:
Chapter Master - Artificer Armor, Power Fist, Jump Pack
Tactical Squad in a drop pod with Plasma Gun, Combi Plasma, Lascannon
Tactical Squad in a drop pod with Flamer, Combi Flamer, Lascannon
Tactical Squad in a drop pod with Melta Gun, Combi Melta, Missile Launcher
Tactical Squad with a TL Lascannon Razorback, Plasma Gun, Combi Plasma, and Missile Launcher

Eldar:
Spiritseer
5 Wraithguard with Wraithcannons in a Wave Serpent with TL Scatter Laser, Holo Fields, and Shuriken Cannon
5 Wraithguard with Wraithcannons in a Wave Serpent with TL Scatter Laser, Holo Fields, and Shuriken Cannon
1 War Walker with two Brightlances

It's a pretty straightforward list. A couple of items that I have considered include dropping one tac marine so that the CM can ride in a pod; and dropping the heavy weapons from one or more tac squads -- however, I've found it quite useful to be able to reach out and touch what I need to once I clean up a particular area I've dropped into.

I have 15 points left over -- possibly melta bombs, possibly an upgrade for a Wave Serpent, perhaps something better?

Thanks in advance!

V

Drop war walker. The only thing its doing is giving first blood to the opponent. Its damage out put is pathetic (in these large games, and only because you only have one war walker).

I agree with ninja here. The single War Walker needs to go. That leaves you with 85 points left over. If you can squeeze out anothe 15 points somewhere else, you could have a Thunderfire Cannon.

Interesting idea, good thinking. Thunderfires are pretty dang broken. Perhaps I drop a missile launcher to get there, as it's probably the least useful item in the list.

Any thoughts on the tactical squad load outs?

With the points you would save by dropping a war walker you should grab shield eternal for your chaptermaster.

Upgrade two missile launchers to lascannons for redundancy/ ap2.

Anti Air would be what I'd try and find points for. In my 1850 point army I take minimum two fliers and would basically just trash your serpents then dump some elite troops on your backfield objectives to neutralise them.

I mean, that's just what my armies revolve around however, but if you know that you're not facing fliers then from my knowledge the list looks good. I don't use thunderfires, so I can't comment on that, but if you're trying to make a tournament list then at 1850 you NEED fliers; or at least an aegis defence line.

This has better anti air then some. Wave serpents are ok anti air.

Some very good ideas. Shield eternal is boss -- although situational (I did lose my CM in one of my test games to S8).

Anti-air is certainly a weakness. Indeed the list is better than it might first appear -- I can usually handle a single stormraven without difficulty. However, more air power than that would present me a problem -- and this list is particularly vulnerable to a certain AP3 flame template flyer we all know and love.

The thunderfire is great, but I'm actually probably better off for anti-infantry power at the moment than I am for anti-air.

If I drop the other ML and the combi-flamer, I can add a stormhammer stormtalon. Might be just what the doctor ordered.

BTW, I do agree that the extra five points for lascannons over MLs is pure win.

So the updated list would potentially look something like this:


Iron Hands:
Chapter Master - Artificer Armor, Power Fist, Jump Pack
Tactical Squad in a drop pod with Plasma Gun, Combi Plasma, Lascannon
Tactical Squad in a drop pod with Flamer, Lascannon
Tactical Squad in a drop pod with Melta Gun, Combi Melta,
Tactical Squad with a TL Lascannon Razorback, Plasma Gun, Combi Plasma
Stormtalon with Skyhammer missiles

Eldar:
Spiritseer
5 Wraithguard with Wraithcannons in a Wave Serpent with TL Scatter Laser, Holo Fields, and Shuriken Cannon
5 Wraithguard with Wraithcannons in a Wave Serpent with TL Scatter Laser, Holo Fields, and Shuriken Cannon

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
This has better anti air then some. Wave serpents are ok anti air.

They're BARELY anti air. S6 Heavy 4 TL scatter laser isn't what I'd call effective air resistance, especially when they're going to be supporting the eldar advance for objectives in enemy deployment zones and the midfield. Sure, they' may get lucky and get a few hits on some rear armour but it's not what they're going to be doing when there are ground target everywhere threatening to squish the eldar with the serpent's support.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Verthane wrote:
Some very good ideas. Shield eternal is boss -- although situational (I did lose my CM in one of my test games to S8).

Anti-air is certainly a weakness. Indeed the list is better than it might first appear -- I can usually handle a single stormraven without difficulty. However, more air power than that would present me a problem -- and this list is particularly vulnerable to a certain AP3 flame template flyer we all know and love.

The thunderfire is great, but I'm actually probably better off for anti-infantry power at the moment than I am for anti-air.

If I drop the other ML and the combi-flamer, I can add a stormhammer stormtalon. Might be just what the doctor ordered.

BTW, I do agree that the extra five points for lascannons over MLs is pure win.

So the updated list would potentially look something like this:


Iron Hands:
Chapter Master - Artificer Armor, Power Fist, Jump Pack
Tactical Squad in a drop pod with Plasma Gun, Combi Plasma, Lascannon
Tactical Squad in a drop pod with Flamer, Lascannon
Tactical Squad in a drop pod with Melta Gun, Combi Melta,
Tactical Squad with a TL Lascannon Razorback, Plasma Gun, Combi Plasma
Stormtalon with Skyhammer missiles

Eldar:
Spiritseer
5 Wraithguard with Wraithcannons in a Wave Serpent with TL Scatter Laser, Holo Fields, and Shuriken Cannon
5 Wraithguard with Wraithcannons in a Wave Serpent with TL Scatter Laser, Holo Fields, and Shuriken Cannon

I think that that looks pretty damn solid now, and that stormtalon not only has the ability to take out opposing fliers, but can also harass enemy armour once it's done it's job in the skies.

And although the Lacannons do seem like they would be much more useful than the ML, but I'm just wondering about the actual payoff from doing it? I mean, if they land first turn then and you're trying to claim an objective it will be a few turns before they can actually fire and all that time he's under threat of dying before he can even shoot. I mean it's a risky 60 points that's right in the enemy line of fire and really needs to be given a bit of breathing space to be used to it's full capacity.

This looks very similar to a list I posted a while back. It is something I am definitely pondering for my next army build. SM / Eldar or pure Eldar. It's a tough one. Here is what I came up with.

Vulkan

Ironclad Dreadnaught
-Assault Launchers
-HF x 2
-Drop Pod

3 x 5 Tac Marines
-Melta
-Sgt. Combi Melta
-Drop Pod

2 x Storm Talons
-Skyhammer ML

Thunder Fire Cannon
-Drop Pod

Spirit Seer

5 Wraith Guard
-D-Scythes
-Wave Serpent w/ SL, SC, GWM

5 Wraith Guard
-Wave Serpent w/ SL, SC

1850

This was a good piece of advice that was posted in my thread that still applies to your list:

"Your list is balanced; but fails to present your enemies with ultimatums. Any great list in any edition does this. Now, it doesn't have to be (and perhaps shouldn't be) a Deathstar anymore. 7th ed has ushered in MSU once again. But you don't have the sheer volume of some of the lists above, nor do you dictate the action with a single overwhelming unit or combination of units."
-The Shrike

That looks like a fun list to play as well! In some ways very similar, in many of the details very different.

That's an interesting philosophy.

I actually strive not to have one single obvious key piece that if I lose it, the army suffers. Interchangeable, replaceable, redundant parts that can pick up where the others leave off is what I tend to try for.

For instance, I'm sorely tempted to grab a box of dev centurions and go wild. But it's such an investment to get it just right, that when it all goes pear-shaped for them, you're in a big hole!

Different strokes for different folks, but it was very interesting to see Shrike's comment, thanks for posting it!

 thetallestgiraffe wrote:

And although the Lacannons do seem like they would be much more useful than the ML, but I'm just wondering about the actual payoff from doing it? I mean, if they land first turn then and you're trying to claim an objective it will be a few turns before they can actually fire and all that time he's under threat of dying before he can even shoot. I mean it's a risky 60 points that's right in the enemy line of fire and really needs to be given a bit of breathing space to be used to it's full capacity.

Absolutely true, and the two remaining lascannons are probably the most questionable point spend in the list. One of them I should move over to the razorback squad, since that combat squad will be deployed to start and it can then fire from turn one.

Any thoughts on a better use of 20 points?

 thetallestgiraffe wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
This has better anti air then some. Wave serpents are ok anti air.

They're BARELY anti air. S6 Heavy 4 TL scatter laser isn't what I'd call effective air resistance, especially when they're going to be supporting the eldar advance for objectives in enemy deployment zones and the midfield. Sure, they' may get lucky and get a few hits on some rear armour but it's not what they're going to be doing when there are ground target everywhere threatening to squish the eldar with the serpent's support..

Ya.... Try 7 strength 6 twin linked shots, and d6+1 (averaging 4.5) s7 shots (twin linked) ignoring jink.
Then multiply that by 2.
the 2 serpents are averaging around 2.6 hull points.

Decent anti air. Try again.

Although the math does drop off a bit when the scatter laser doesn't register any hits on eight rolls -- four misses followed by four misses.

In this event, the other weapons aren't twin linked.

That being said, it shouldn't happen all that often (although it sure seems to!).

Your underlying point, however, that many folks underestimate the AA capabilities of wave serpents, is a solid one!

 Verthane wrote:
and this list is particularly vulnerable to a certain AP3 flame template flyer we all know and love

It got nerfed pretty hard. Baleflamer is hull mounted in new FAQ. It's still good, but we won't be seeing 4 of them anymore. I just played 1850 vs marines and they were just meh. They didn't earn their points back like they used to, that's for sure.