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Made in gb
Confessor Of Sins





Newton Aycliffe

I have a "new" question on MSS:

The rule says:"he inflicts D3 hits on his own unit when it is his turn to attack"

So if the affected model's initiative is lower than the Lord, he may well die before even attacking due to MSS?

DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage.
Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. 
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin





Out of my Mind

 BlackTalos wrote:
So if the affected model's initiative is lower than the Lord, he may well die before even attacking due to MSS?

Yes. This is another 'common' mistake that happens with MSS. The models is equipped with something 'Unwieldly', usually a Powerfist. Necron Players are notorious for saying 'Okay, the Powerfist swings, taking out the Character and 1-2 guys with him.' 'Oh wait, I forgot, My Overlord still gets to attack.' It's an honest mistake for new Necron players, since they become so used to I2, and everything going before them, that it's easy to forget.

With the 7th ed. rules. There is no reason to resolve the combat separately, so just start getting into the habit of resolving the challenge as part of the combat, keeping track of which ones wound to assign them to the correct models.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/24 00:18:04


Current Armies
40k: 15k of Unplayable Necrons
(I miss 7th!)
30k: Imperial Fists
(project for 2025)

 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh






Dallas, TX

It's also worth noting that they can make you use whatever equipment you are using, but can't make you use special rules. We encountered this when my daemon prince was called upon to attack himself. He can make your sergeant use his powerfist, or your librarian use his force weapon (thankfully the activation happens during the psychic phase now), but he can't make a monstrous creature choose to smash.

40k Armies I play:


Glory for Slaanesh!

 
   
Made in gb
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine





*bursts though room with axe* HEEEAAARRRS JHONNY!!!

Here's a question a friend of mine pointed out..

Is MSS a one shot in assault type of thing?

Now I don't have the codex but my friend pointed out that is says some where in the paragraph that MSS works after charging has occurred, but after the 2nd turn of combat (if there is one) there is no charging, so therefore MSS cannot be used as it says specifically that it happens after charging, and since there is no charging after the second round of combat then it cannot be use by the wielder..

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/25 17:56:48


Night Lords (40k): 3500pts
Klan Zaw Klan: 4000pts

 Grey Templar wrote:

Orks don't hate, they just love. Love to fight everyone.


Whatever you use.. It's Cheesy, broken and OP  
   
Made in ca
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





Your friend is incorrect, you are free to use MSS on each ensuing round of combat.

edit: the item doesn't reference charging at all. sorry.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/25 18:02:29


 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Virginia

So let me get this straight, with the new challenge rules, even if, say, my lord is in a challenge, but he's still in base contact with other models that aren't in the challenge, then MSS could affect one of them instead? I haven't run into this problem since I don't usually run Lords, but if this is true, that's kinda messed up.

40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 krodarklorr wrote:
So let me get this straight, with the new challenge rules, even if, say, my lord is in a challenge, but he's still in base contact with other models that aren't in the challenge, then MSS could affect one of them instead? I haven't run into this problem since I don't usually run Lords, but if this is true, that's kinda messed up.


Yes, though I wouldn't say it is "messed up". I have always thought that they way MSS worked with challenges was an oversight when 6th came along, it is really nasty having something lock down a combat like that
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 krodarklorr wrote:
So let me get this straight, with the new challenge rules, even if, say, my lord is in a challenge, but he's still in base contact with other models that aren't in the challenge, then MSS could affect one of them instead? I haven't run into this problem since I don't usually run Lords, but if this is true, that's kinda messed up.


correct.

also if it is your opponents turn they can opt for you to use MSS before challenges are issued/refused.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/25 18:23:00


 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Virginia

Automatically Appended Next Post:
blaktoof wrote:
 krodarklorr wrote:
So let me get this straight, with the new challenge rules, even if, say, my lord is in a challenge, but he's still in base contact with other models that aren't in the challenge, then MSS could affect one of them instead? I haven't run into this problem since I don't usually run Lords, but if this is true, that's kinda messed up.


correct.

also if it is your opponents turn they can opt for you to use MSS before challenges are issued/refused.


Well I know that, but this pretty much makes MSS useless on anything other than an Overlord on a Barge. Granted, I don't put MSS on anything else, but I guess this seals the deal as to why I don't.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/25 18:40:50


40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





It's not useless, its just not as amazing as it once was for all of 15 pts

its still bonus attacks, and removing attacks from the enemy.

considering many armies have upgrades that remove only 1 attack from an enemy, or give you only 1 attack or a single reroll for close to the cost of MSS, they are still very good.
   
Made in us
Gargantuan Gargant





New Bedford, MA USA

Need to remember these gems

 Akar wrote:
To summarize here though, MSS are usually played incorrectly, and this gives the impression that they're OP, when really they're not all that great.

1) As stated, try to pick them out. This is not easy to do on an Overlord in a unit with a 2+ or 3i save. LoS, while better than a normal unit, is once again restricted to 6", so if you have the firepower you can even single him out. Court Lords only have 1 Wound and LoS on a 4+, so they're significantly easier to pick out. Be aware though, that some Necron players will place the downed model directly in the path if they make their RP roll, there isn't much you can do about this, which is why this is a risky maneuver.

2) In the Movement phase, try to position your models so that the closest model in the unit you intend to assault with so that the closest 1-2 models are not in line with the MSS model. While difficult, you can actually move your models to block other models from making base contact with the MSS model on the charge. If there are no models in base contact, then there are no models eligible to be hit by MSS (More on this in a bit). Some clever Necron players will think they're being smart by placing the unit in a wedge formation, making it difficult for you to charge anything but the MSS. If this is the case, refer to Tip 1, since he has just made it easier for you to single him out.

3) If you can't avoid making base contact with the MSS, then put as many average joes in base contact with him as possible. It's random who the MSS targets, and if it's some guy with a combat knife instead of the Power weapon, then you're good to go.

4) Challenges (a). As juraigamer pointed out. MSS and Challenges occur at the same time. On pg. 17 under 'Sequencing' you'll find the rule on how to deal with this. AS the controlling player, on the turn you charge, Always, always, ALWAYS, ask your opponent if he has MSS, then inform him that he MUST use them first, even if there is nothing in base contact with the MSS. You're being a good sport, and following the rules by allowing him the opportunity during your turn to use his piece of kit. If he says something like 'no Im going to wait until challenges', then show him pg. 17 and move on to challenges. When it happens against me, I just assume that the MSS doesn't work on the turn I get charged. It saves the debate, and speeds the game along. Not all Necron players are this honest, so don't trust em.

5) Challenges (b). This is easier to pull off if you have large units, and is a decent tactic to use in some situations regardless of MSS. Models that aren't 'engaged' can't accept or issue challenges. So if the MSS is far away, or more than likely you hang your Champ/Char in the back of the charge you can bypass the challenges. They still happen, there are just no models eligible to use the rules. The trick is placing them somewhere where they will become 'engaged' when they pile-in.

* After all that, all you need to do is wipe the unit on the turn you charge. There is a myth that Necrons suck in CC, so don't think you're going to steam roll them by throwing any assault unit in there, you need to actually hit them hard. They are LD10, so you need to WIN combat by 3 to put him on his toes. Even Warriors are WS4/S4/T4. I2 doesn't make any difference if you can't down them before he gets to swing back. I can't tell you the number of times my opponent has smiled when he downs 3-5 Warriors, and then acts as if the remaining 12-16 aren't going to close that gap, and the odd Warscythe pushes me into a win. If Necrons lose combat by 1 or 2, then we're doing just fine. If you don't get them to break, after all of these tips, then you deserve to deal with MSS in the following rounds.

6) If you are forced into multiple rounds with MSS, then try at every chance you get, to get as many models in base contact with the MSS, even if in a challenge. The Necron player will be doing what he can to keep your guys out, but you get to pile-in first on your turn, so don't forget that.

That said, MSS are still fantastic! I pretty much only limit them to units I intend to be assaulting with, like Phaerons, DLords, or Royal Courts kit'd out for CC. With all of these ways to get around them, they're too pricey for me to be used defensively, since each one would get me 1 more Warrior.


+

 Lord Yayula wrote:
You can also play with Glorious Intervention in your turn, something that at least I don't see as much in my LGS, and whenever y pull it to replace an ongoing challenge between my chaos lord and an overlord it infuriates the necrons. Swapping a chaos lord for a weaponless champion helps a lot to reduce the dmg of the MSS if you fail to finish them in turn 1. Some overlord can be pretty tough with their 3++


nosferatu1001 wrote:
That rule was in for the whole of 6th as well. IF you are nto engaged before I10, you cannot offer or accept any challenges.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/18 02:25:42


   
 
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