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Made in gb
Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

Incubi swords are Strength 4 AP 2, so they will shear through Mega Armour like it's not there. So it's really a matter of how many Mega Nobz die before they can strike, because statistically each Incubi does a single wound to T4 no invul models at Initiative 5 and they are 22 points. Nobz have 2 wounds and a fair few attacks at strength stupid AP 2, so if many survive those Incubi are going down.

As for Incubi vs Warp Talons, that is a fight i would gladly take! 5 unmarked Warp Talons costs 160pts, for that i get 7 Incubi! Since you can't charge and deep strike, i get the charge, so 21 attacks hitting on 3's (14) wounding on 4's (7) vs a 5++ (4/5). You are left with 1 Warp Talon left. If you take marks it might be a better fight, for example Slaanesh meand mutual destruction, but if you get Marks i get a Klaivex

On the other hand, while Imperial Assasins are badass, a Sucubus comes in with similar stats, is cheaper, and I am sure would give an Eversor Assasin the fight of his life!

 
   
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Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Big pile of 100% meaningless game mechanics


I believe you lost your way, friend. The tactics forum is here. This is the background forum. Easy mistake.

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Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

The fluff is based on the game isn't it? Not the other way around, because the game came first (could be wrong here, but seem to remember Warhammer started on the back of a cereal box), so using the stats given in-game to determine how strong something might be is perfectly reasonable. They GIVE US statistics to compare one unit to another, an Incubi is Ws 5, showing he is more skilled then a Warp Talon. They are Initiative 5, showing they are faster. They are strength 4, showing they can match their toughness. Back ground goes hand in hand with the game sometimes, and while i understand not always, but when we have no fluff to compare the situation to then using the stats given is the best way?

Were is the fault in that logic?

 
   
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
The fluff is based on the game isn't it? Not the other way around, because the game came first (could be wrong here, but seem to remember Warhammer started on the back of a cereal box), so using the stats given in-game to determine how strong something might be is perfectly reasonable. They GIVE US statistics to compare one unit to another, an Incubi is Ws 5, showing he is more skilled then a Warp Talon. They are Initiative 5, showing they are faster. They are strength 4, showing they can match their toughness. Back ground goes hand in hand with the game sometimes, and while i understand not always, but when we have no fluff to compare the situation to then using the stats given is the best way?

Were is the fault in that logic?



Please explain how a naked Imperial Guard Company Commander can eat three times as much Dark Eldar poison as a naked Space Marine.

Please explain. I am waiting.

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Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

There you hit the big one, Space Marines. Some fluff paints them as ridiculously over powered, others show them as ludicrously ineffective on the grand scale of things. And to be fair, the fluff has just as many idiotic moments as the game, Draigo carving a name onto the heart of a DAEMON PRIMARCH being amougst them. As i said, either you can produce Incubi vs Warp Talon, or you can't. If you can't then we use the only thing we have to go on, which is the mechanics. What other option is there other then pure conjecture?

 
   
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Fixture of Dakka




Basing things on the game is stupid. For example the game says my fist does as much damage as a gun that can blow off a mans arm with 1 shot. Using lore for logical debate is the only sensible option.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
There you hit the big one, Space Marines. Some fluff paints them as ridiculously over powered, others show them as ludicrously ineffective on the grand scale of things. And to be fair, the fluff has just as many idiotic moments as the game, Draigo carving a name onto the heart of a DAEMON PRIMARCH being amougst them. As i said, either you can produce Incubi vs Warp Talon, or you can't. If you can't then we use the only thing we have to go on, which is the mechanics. What other option is there other then pure conjecture?


Using the extremely flawed game mechanics is hardly a 'last option'. It is just misleading and an option best not considered at all.

I can go on though. The Company Commander is thrice as resistant to DE poison as an Ork...

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 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
The fluff is based on the game isn't it? Not the other way around, because the game came first (could be wrong here, but seem to remember Warhammer started on the back of a cereal box), so using the stats given in-game to determine how strong something might be is perfectly reasonable. They GIVE US statistics to compare one unit to another, an Incubi is Ws 5, showing he is more skilled then a Warp Talon. They are Initiative 5, showing they are faster. They are strength 4, showing they can match their toughness. Back ground goes hand in hand with the game sometimes, and while i understand not always, but when we have no fluff to compare the situation to then using the stats given is the best way?

Were is the fault in that logic?


Then please do explain how autoguns do the exact same damage, despite autoguns being a generic term that in W40K could describe everything from 5.56 to 8.25. Owait, that's right, the table top rules are incredibly stupid and it's impossible to apply them to the actual W40K universe due to their simplistic nature and being based on a D6 instead of a D10 or D20.

You'd have to be incredibly stupid to go off TT rules for a picture of what in-universe W40K would be like. The problem is people thinking there is any association at all between the TT and fluff, they're separate entities. Which isn't suprising at all given that the Black Library is a separate division of the parent GW company.

“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
 
   
Made in gb
Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

Ok, how would you compare an Incubi to a Warp Talon in a fight to the death situation? I'd give it to the Incubi because he is faster and more skilled and has a weapon that can shear through Power Armour like butter. The Warp Talon on the other hand will invariably kill the Incubi in a protracted fight due to the physicality of a Marine. What would you base your assumption off, due to us having no fluff to base it off? Is there any fluff on Banshee's vs Assault Marines, that might be relevant.

 
   
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Fixture of Dakka




The only time a protracted fight really starts to give a bonus to Astartes is when the fight goes for a ridiculously long time seeing as Incubi can last a fair while as well.

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

 Ashiraya wrote:
 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
The fluff is based on the game isn't it? Not the other way around, because the game came first (could be wrong here, but seem to remember Warhammer started on the back of a cereal box), so using the stats given in-game to determine how strong something might be is perfectly reasonable. They GIVE US statistics to compare one unit to another, an Incubi is Ws 5, showing he is more skilled then a Warp Talon. They are Initiative 5, showing they are faster. They are strength 4, showing they can match their toughness. Back ground goes hand in hand with the game sometimes, and while i understand not always, but when we have no fluff to compare the situation to then using the stats given is the best way?

Were is the fault in that logic?



Please explain how a naked Imperial Guard Company Commander can eat three times as much Dark Eldar poison as a naked Space Marine.

Please explain. I am waiting.


Please don't summon Lynata like this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/07 19:00:24


 
   
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 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Ok, how would you compare an Incubi to a Warp Talon in a fight to the death situation? I'd give it to the Incubi because he is faster and more skilled and has a weapon that can shear through Power Armour like butter. The Warp Talon on the other hand will invariably kill the Incubi in a protracted fight due to the physicality of a Marine. What would you base your assumption off, due to us having no fluff to base it off? Is there any fluff on Banshee's vs Assault Marines, that might be relevant.


Well for one, Astartes have reflexes and speed equal to Eldar, if not superior. Their only problem is lack of maneuverability due to the size of power armor, which they make up for however in raw strength. Fluff-wise the Codex paints Warp Talons as actually among the most fearsome units you could ever face, as they can rip open holes into the warp which they use to teleport behind enemies. They attack by then teleporting right on top of the enemy and presumably either killing them right then and there by materializing their lightning claws inside the enemy or dragging them back into the warp.

Tiss a shame their rules are gak. GW seems to have had a bad streak as of late of making fairly interesting units and giving them gak rules. Or models.

“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
 
   
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 TheCustomLime wrote:
 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:
 TheCustomLime wrote:
And people say Marine fans are bad.


Yes discussing how deadly a unit is in the eldar army is comparable to people thinking their marines are invincible and will always win no matter what. Anyway Incubi are certainly one of the most dangerous units you can face in close combat, but there are multiple other units who are at least as dangerous if not more so. Like aspect warriors the Incubi are highly skilled, disciplined, and very well equipped killers who few can even hope in matching.

Ashiraya
A marine might be physically tougher, but the klaive incubi use not only cuts through even the toughest armor it also greatly enhances the user's strength. Combine with their superior equivalent to power armor( in the sense that it dose not even way down the user nor make a sound when moving) and the incapacitating effects of the tormentor helms, most of the time the incubi would slaughter a space marine. Only the most experienced and well equipped marine such as a veteran with something like a storm shield would even have a chance of winning a fight with a incubi. Also remember that wyches for example would not just attack the hardest parts of the marine's armor, they aim for vital points like the eye slits or the throat, Jes himself said they are more then capable of killing a marine with a knife.


To use a tired meme.

>Says discussion is different from Marine fans declaring their chosen men are the best.

>Details how their chosen men are the best.

I do agree with you, though. I'm just ribbing you Space Elf fans.

Haha fair enough, but I just love my toy soldiers so much!

Otto Weston
Remember not only can a dead DE be regenerated, but they also take the remains of their dead after the end of a battle. Considering how many Incubi are used as bodyguards there must be lots of shrines with many members. I sure there are ways to make more armor, since the incubi had to start from somewhere.

Wyzilla
Can you show me examples of when space marines are shown to have superior reflexes to eldar? I never came across this myself as from what I have read Eldar have far superior reflexes and speed. Just took a look at the warp talon entry, reminds me a lot of other units like Wraiths and Deathmarks yet have way worse rules.

Regarding if they are the best martial fighters can we count special characters or not? Otherwise Lelith is far better then almost any mortal can ever hope to be.
   
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

I suspect Custodes actually win this contest. When your Incubi are fast enough to swat aside las-fire, then I will admit they win. But they don't.

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Eisenhorn has swatted las-fire. lol

He's kind of a giga-badass.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/07 19:05:38


 
   
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

I call bull on Astartes being faster then Eldar, that has never been true. Being equal is even a big push, if anything most authors drastically downgrade how fast an Eldar can move. I read fluff saying that Imperial Vid Catpures of a Dark Eldar raid had to be slowed down x4 to even be able to register the Dark Eldar as shapes rather then blurs, they were also shown to be able to dodge las-fire and kick grenades out of the air (!) back at the thrower.

Dark Eldar, while there psychic abilities have been diminished, they are still Eldar and still psychically empathic (shown by there ability to be pain vampires) so it seems very likely they could 'feel' the tear in the warp before it happened. For example a Dark Eldar in a novel could 'feel' the air ionizing before an explosion and ducked away, i think they could do the same for a Warp Talon. And once that little trick is used up, it's a straight up brawl with the Warp Talon going up against a Faster, More skilled opponent with a better weapon. At least thats how the fluff shows to me.

 
   
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I call bull on Astartes being faster then Eldar, that has never been true. Being equal is even a big push, if anything most authors drastically downgrade how fast an Eldar can move. I read fluff saying that Imperial Vid Catpures of a Dark Eldar raid had to be slowed down x4 to even be able to register the Dark Eldar as shapes rather then blurs, they were also shown to be able to dodge las-fire and kick grenades out of the air (!) back at the thrower.

Dark Eldar, while there psychic abilities have been diminished, they are still Eldar and still psychically empathic (shown by there ability to be pain vampires) so it seems very likely they could 'feel' the tear in the warp before it happened. For example a Dark Eldar in a novel could 'feel' the air ionizing before an explosion and ducked away, i think they could do the same for a Warp Talon. And once that little trick is used up, it's a straight up brawl with the Warp Talon going up against a Faster, More skilled opponent with a better weapon. At least thats how the fluff shows to me.


Lightning Claws are really not bad weapons. He is also stronger and tougher than his foe.

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Southern California, USA

Swatting Lasfire? A nervous system that operates as fast as/faster than the speed of light? I have no words.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/07 19:29:27


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Made in gb
Angered Reaver Arena Champion




Connah's Quay, North Wales

Not a bad weapon, but the Klaive is better. Shearing through Terminator Armour and enhancing the strength. Also the ability to be used as a Sword, Spear or Axe, so the Incubi has a lot longer range then the Warp Talon.

 
   
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Not a bad weapon, but the Klaive is better. Shearing through Terminator Armour and enhancing the strength. Also the ability to be used as a Sword, Spear or Axe, so the Incubi has a lot longer range then the Warp Talon.


Yes, RAW the Incubi power weapon may be a sword, spear or axe. But since when do we take wacky RAW as fluff?

Also


 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Shearing through Terminator Armour


Because it does in-game, yes. Stop assuming game mechanics mean anything. They don't, and how many absurd examples do I need to give for this to be clear?

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
enhancing the strength.


As I already said, this is just because it's two handed. Look at comparable two-handed weapons and you see a strength bonus there as well.

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 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:
 TheCustomLime wrote:
 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:
 TheCustomLime wrote:
And people say Marine fans are bad.


Yes discussing how deadly a unit is in the eldar army is comparable to people thinking their marines are invincible and will always win no matter what. Anyway Incubi are certainly one of the most dangerous units you can face in close combat, but there are multiple other units who are at least as dangerous if not more so. Like aspect warriors the Incubi are highly skilled, disciplined, and very well equipped killers who few can even hope in matching.

Ashiraya
A marine might be physically tougher, but the klaive incubi use not only cuts through even the toughest armor it also greatly enhances the user's strength. Combine with their superior equivalent to power armor( in the sense that it dose not even way down the user nor make a sound when moving) and the incapacitating effects of the tormentor helms, most of the time the incubi would slaughter a space marine. Only the most experienced and well equipped marine such as a veteran with something like a storm shield would even have a chance of winning a fight with a incubi. Also remember that wyches for example would not just attack the hardest parts of the marine's armor, they aim for vital points like the eye slits or the throat, Jes himself said they are more then capable of killing a marine with a knife.


To use a tired meme.

>Says discussion is different from Marine fans declaring their chosen men are the best.

>Details how their chosen men are the best.

I do agree with you, though. I'm just ribbing you Space Elf fans.

Haha fair enough, but I just love my toy soldiers so much!

Otto Weston
Remember not only can a dead DE be regenerated, but they also take the remains of their dead after the end of a battle. Considering how many Incubi are used as bodyguards there must be lots of shrines with many members. I sure there are ways to make more armor, since the incubi had to start from somewhere.

Wyzilla
Can you show me examples of when space marines are shown to have superior reflexes to eldar? I never came across this myself as from what I have read Eldar have far superior reflexes and speed. Just took a look at the warp talon entry, reminds me a lot of other units like Wraiths and Deathmarks yet have way worse rules.

Regarding if they are the best martial fighters can we count special characters or not? Otherwise Lelith is far better then almost any mortal can ever hope to be.


Blood Gorgons immediately jumps to mind.

“As Hepshah struggled to regain his breath, the Chaos Space Marine gripped him firmly by the face, pinning his head with a delicate grip. His other hand darted, whisper quick, tapping him on the temple with a longmace. No more than a light double tap. Hepshah stopped struggling. The dark eldar was no longer recognisable from the neck up. The encounter took just seconds and by the time Hepshah’s body was discovered, Barsabbas was already gone.

Moribeth found Draaz hung from the rafters. She found Fhaisor and Amul Teth reclining behind a bombed out dust buggy. In the open, tossed amongst the debris, was a stove boiler that leaked blood. She did not open the coal hatch, but presumed it to contain the remains of Sabhira. She did not feel fear – only indignity. Snarling, she stalked through the ruins. Occasionally she stopped to crack her whip meaningfully, with a belligerent pop. It was a declaratory snap and most knew to run when they heard it.

‘You can’t hide from me,’ she sang. She had always been the predator. Ever since her young maiden years, Moribeth had accompanied her cousins on slave raids. This was second nature to her. In her free hand, hidden behind her back, was a neural blade gifted to her by her kabal’s mistress. The poison it secreted overloaded the pain nerves in living creatures. She pitied anything that crossed her path.

‘Come out, come out,’ she cooed.

‘Here I am.’ The voice sounded like slabs of rockcrete grinding together. A shadow fell across her. Moribeth turned and her confidence dissipated. She slashed her neural whip low, but the tip snapped listlessly as it connected with ceramite. With a speed that surprised her, the horned warrior slapped the top of her head with his palm. There was a pop as her spine compressed and vertebrae slipped out of joint. Moribeth died still believing herself a predator.

‘Face me!’ Vhaal howled, raising his arms into the air in challenge. A muzzle flashed in the distance. Low and muffled. The bolter’s bark. Vhaal, second son of the kabal, fell unceremoniously through a screen paper window, his feet stiffening awkwardly in the air. He was already dead before he landed, felled by a single shot.

The monkeigh warrior appeared indifferent to his threats. He walked into and through the caprid fence that separated them, splintering the wood with his shins and thighs.

‘Catch me to kill me!’ Sindul spat. He leapt up against the sheer rock wall behind him, limbs splayed against the surface, and began to scarper up the vertical drop. He used his lacerator gloves, dragging the hooked claws of his fists for purchase. He shot up the wall like a rodent, scaling twelve metres in a matter of seconds before bounding backwards into the air. A bolter round missed him as he leapt. He landed behind the monkeigh, slashing his lacerators as he sailed overhead. But the horned warrior was faster than Sindul had estimated. It was a grave error. The monkeigh spun with practiced fluidity, pouncing with all the weight and drive of a quarter tonne primate. Sindul rolled aside, but not fast enough. The monkeigh snagged him with its paw and dragged him to the ground by his ankles. Sindul tried to regain his gyroscopic balance, but his thin ankle was locked in a hammer grip of ceramite.

‘I don’t need to kill you yet,’ growled the Traitor Marine as Sindul thrashed like a hooked fish. Dragging his splinter pistol free from its chest holster, the dark eldar began to fire. The first shot hammered a toxic splinter into heavy chest plate. The monkeigh dodged the second with a little dip of his head.

‘Stop, now.’ With that, the monkeigh backhanded him with steel-bound hands. Sindul’s head snapped violently off to the right and he blacked out.” / Blood Gorgons, p.75 & 76 - **
...
“When Sindul collapsed from exhaustion, Barsabbas simply draped him across one arm. The dark eldar weighed little more than his bolter.” / Blood Gorgons, p.84 - **


The classic bit where Space Marines can drive mortals insane by simply seeing them due to them being impossibly fast.

“Transhuman dread. Aximand had heard iterators talk of the condition. He’d heard descriptions of it from regular Army officers too. The sight of an Adeptus Astartes was one thing: taller and broader than a man could ever be, armoured like a demigod. The singularity of purpose was self-evident. An Adeptus Astartes was designed to fight and kill anything that didn’t annihilate it first. If you saw an Adeptus Astartes, you knew you were in trouble. The appearance alone cowed you with fear.

But to see one move. Apparently that was the real thing. Nothing human-shaped should be so fast, so lithe, so powerful, especially not anything in excess of two metres tall and carrying more armour than four normal men could lift. The sight of an Adeptus Astartes was one thing, but the moving fact of one was quite another. The psychologists called it transhuman dread. It froze a man, stuck him to the ground, caused his mind to lock up, made him lose control of bladder and bowel. Something huge and warlike gave pause: something huge and warlike and moving with the speed of a striking snake, that was when you knew that gods moved amongst men, and that there existed a scale of strength and speed beyond anything mortal, and that you were about to die and, if you were really lucking, there might be just enough time to piss yourself first.” / Age of Darkness, p.163 - **


Microsecond reaction speeds.

“As the shell seared past, Rangar threw himself flat behind the low pile of rubble trying to make himself as small a target as possible. That had been close, too close. The shot had almost parted his hair. Only his lightning quick reflexes, and the microsecond's warning provided by his superhuman senses had got him out of the way. If he had ducked half a heartbeat later, his head would have been an exploding fountain of gore and bone.” / The Space Wolf Omnibus, p.269 - **
'

Slapping bolts out of the air (which are supersonic for hard targets like space marines).

“Plague Marines shot at him. Those shots that Gammadin did not slap out of the air, he took against his shoulder plates. Shrapnel puffed against him.” / Blood Gorgons, p.159 - **


Oh, and here's a Chaos Astartes going full blown Jedi on an Obliterator by deflecting incoming rounds with his sword, matrix-style dodging between shots, and grabbing rounds out of the air.

“Amakyre dodged backwards and let himself fall from the platform rather than face Veq’s blade, honed from the heart of a star and white-hot to all but Veq himself.

Gunfire erupted again from below. Veq swatted away a score of bullets from the Obliterator and caught three more with his free hand, throwing them back down to the floor of the bridge with a curse. The young one, the most dangerous, fired a well-aimed shot at his temple, but Veq flicked his head to the side and the silenced bolt flittered past him.

Veq took two steps and leapt, dropping through the lattice of bullet trails to land directly in front of the Obliterator whose every weapon was blazing at him from point-blank range. The star-sword cut through the air as Veq met every bullet, sending a sparkling fan of deflected fire in every direction.

The hulking Obliterator reeled as several of its own bullets punched through its biomechanical body. The flesh of one arm became fluid, extruded, and solidified into a blade of bone with gnawing teeth at the cutting edge. Veq ducked the first blow and parried the second, shearing the first blade in two as a barbed whip, tipped with a lamprey-like mouth, lashed from the Obliterator’s other arm. Veq grabbed the lash, wrapped it round his fist, and used it to swing the Obliterator hard into the wall by the doorway.

Armour split and cracked. Corrupted blood spilled. Veq paused to dodge more bolter fire from the other Word Bearers who were falling back through the doorway.” / Daemon Worldgons, p.472 - **





Besides the insanity, I'd put Astartes either being full equals or above Eldar, their only weakness being that while the Black Carapace completely removes awkward moment from power armor by allowing the Astartes to wear it as a second skin, it's still big. Which means it's going to be a lot more constricted than an Incubi when fighting in a small hallway or other tight spaces.

Of course, this doesn't really matter much for the Warp Talon, which by its fluff should just pop up behind you and scream SURPRISE RAPE before dragging you into the materium, no matter who or what you are. Damn shame their rules don't reflect the codex description. Same with half of the Necron units.

“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
 
   
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St. George, UT

 Otto Weston wrote:
 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:
 Ashiraya wrote:
 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:

A marine might be physically tougher, but the klaive incubi use not only cuts through even the toughest armor it also greatly enhances the user's strength. Combine with their superior equivalent to power armor( in the sense that it dose not even way down the user nor make a sound when moving) and the incapacitating effects of the tormentor helms, most of the time the incubi would slaughter a space marine.


Except... You know... No.

In a way I'd almost argue PA is superior to Warsuits. Warsuits are more silent, for sure, but that is entirely irrelevant in a situation like we are discussing. Do you know how the black carapace functions? For a Marine, wearing armour is like wearing nothing at all. No matter how lightweight or skintight Warsuits are, they simply can't match this without similar neural interface technology, which they do not use.

Incubi are deadly, and they would slaughter a Guardsman squad in a few seconds, but they are not that deadly.

The way Klaives increase the wearer's strength is the way a Relic Blade or Big Choppa does. It's simply two-handed. Nothing more esoteric than that. Game mechanics.

You just proved why the Incubi warsuit is superior to power armor ( note I only talking about it terms of combat between the two, not the other functions the power armor has like life support etc.) , it does not need additional equipment or enchantments in order to provide incredible protection without hindering the user. Page 31of the Dark Eldar codex in the Incubi entry states states the process a incubi has to go through to become the killer that he is. First he has to visit one of the shrines were and survive fighting the other aspirants before facing a full fledged incubi in single combat and killing him then taking his armor . He then has to face an aspect warrior from an craftworld and kill them in combat, take and shatter their spirit stone and reforge it into a tormenter before finally becoming a true Incubi. Consider the fact that aspect warriors focus nothing else then perfecting a particularly style of killing it takes a truly skilled individual to best one in single combat. Remember the incubi are incredible killers in a dimensional world literally filled with nothing but the most evil, sadistic killers in the galaxy. When you take in account their skill, tech and weaponry most marines would not stand a chance in close combat. Again a veteran space marine with the proper equipment and a course leaders like a captain can take them on, but it would not be easy.



Wait, wait. For a fledgling incubi in training to become a true incubi, he has to kill a true incubi first? So basically, you can never swell the numbers of the Incubi BUT every one killed in combat (not part of the training), means there's one less potential Incubi EVER..... that's kinda stupid imo.


Your forgetting about the Homunculii. As long as a few cells are still alive the destroyed DE can be fully regrown including all their skills, abilities, and memories with no loss of statistics.

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I actually seen a bit in the Dark Eldar codex depicting dark eldar to be so fast that they appear as simply feint blurs until it's too late...

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NauticalKendall wrote:
I actually seen a bit in the Dark Eldar codex depicting dark eldar to be so fast that they appear as simply feint blurs until it's too late...

They are suppose to be quicker then even space marines, but seems Black Library authors made sure to taken even that away from them.
   
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NauticalKendall wrote:
I actually seen a bit in the Dark Eldar codex depicting dark eldar to be so fast that they appear as simply feint blurs until it's too late...


Being a blur actually isn't that impressive speed-wise, the human eye is flawed resulting from it being water-based (IIRC that's the cause of our terrible motion tracking ability). Wave you hand really fast. Congratulations, you're now moving in a blur of motion. It's semi-impressive when an Incubi or Space Marine does it simply due to the feth ton of armor they wear (in the Astartes' case a literal ton) being describe as moving in a blur, but it's not hold the press level. Fast is when Eldar and Space Marines start deflecting supersonic shells out of the air or even catching them.

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TheCustomLime wrote:Swatting Lasfire? A nervous system that operates as fast as/faster than the speed of light? I have no words.


Actually, as with most sword techiques, Eisenhorn's laser-deflection is less a matter of sheer speed, and more a matter of perfect timing.

Eisenhorn is, after all, a Jedi - and uses his force psychic powers in all kinds of cheating ways.

Anyway, if you want to talk about 'insanely fast people', Ephrael Stern, a baseline human in terms of physical capabilities (her daemonifuge powers only affect the warp) survived for weeks in a Dark Eldar fighting pit, and was shown punching out Succubi on the page.



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Southern California, USA

 Furyou Miko wrote:
TheCustomLime wrote:Swatting Lasfire? A nervous system that operates as fast as/faster than the speed of light? I have no words.


Actually, as with most sword techiques, Eisenhorn's laser-deflection is less a matter of sheer speed, and more a matter of perfect timing.

Eisenhorn is, after all, a Jedi - and uses his force psychic powers in all kinds of cheating ways.

Anyway, if you want to talk about 'insanely fast people', Ephrael Stern, a baseline human in terms of physical capabilities (her daemonifuge powers only affect the warp) survived for weeks in a Dark Eldar fighting pit, and was shown punching out Succubi on the page.


Here is the thing about Lasers: They move at the speed of light. For you to intercept them your nervous system would have to work faster than the speed of light which is absurd. Even if he saw where the schlub was shooting at he would still not be able to catch the Laser beam because by the time his brain registered that it fired or gave the order to his arm to swing that laser bolt is long gone.

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 TheCustomLime wrote:


Here is the thing about Lasers: They move at the speed of light. For you to intercept them your nervous system would have to work faster than the speed of light which is absurd. Even if he saw where the schlub was shooting at he would still not be able to catch the Laser beam because by the time his brain registered that it fired or gave the order to his arm to swing that laser bolt is long gone.


OK. Order of operations for Eisenhorn deflecting a laser.

1: Eisenhorn's Spider Sense warns him that someone is going to shoot him.

2: Eisenhorn starts to move his sword in a sweeping motion, putting it in the path of each predicted laser.

3: The enemy pulls the trigger, sending several shots, which all move at the speed of light.

4: Eisenhorn's sword is in the right place and the shots deflect off it.



"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. 
   
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Southern California, USA

 Furyou Miko wrote:
 TheCustomLime wrote:


Here is the thing about Lasers: They move at the speed of light. For you to intercept them your nervous system would have to work faster than the speed of light which is absurd. Even if he saw where the schlub was shooting at he would still not be able to catch the Laser beam because by the time his brain registered that it fired or gave the order to his arm to swing that laser bolt is long gone.


OK. Order of operations for Eisenhorn deflecting a laser.

1: Eisenhorn's Spider Sense warns him that someone is going to shoot him.

2: Eisenhorn starts to move his sword in a sweeping motion, putting it in the path of each predicted laser.

3: The enemy pulls the trigger, sending several shots, which all move at the speed of light.

4: Eisenhorn's sword is in the right place and the shots deflect off it.


Yeah, I just thought of that and the problem with it is that you're guessing. If you're good at guessing then this is viable but you aren't swatting Las shots so much as putting yourself in the path of where the shooter is going to shoot.

Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
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The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!  
   
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For you or I, it's guessing. For Eisenhorn, its literal combat precognition, no guesswork involved.

The problem with your problem is that it doesn't matter - even if its just a guess, it works!



"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. 
   
 
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