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Relevant rules:

Codex Orks Gubbinz and Gunz wrote:Waaagh! Banner

All models in a unit that includes a Waaagh! Banner add +1 to the Weapon Skill characteristic on their profile.

Council of the Waaagh! Restrictions wrote:The Nobz unit must be equipped with a Waaagh! banner.

Council of the Waaagh! Special Rules wrote:Banner of da Great Waaagh!: As long as the bearer of the Waaagh! banner is still alive, all models in the same unit have the Fearless special rule and add 1 to the Weapon Skill characteristic on their profile. In addition, all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12” re-roll failed Morale and Pinning checks.

Council of the Waaagh! Special Rules wrote:Ghazghkull’s Leftenuntz: Both of the Ork Warbosses in the Formation have +1 WS on their profile.

So, am I reading this right? Do the two Warbosses from the formation have WS 8 (normally 5) as long as the carrier of the Waaagh! banner is alive?

Looks like two different banners to me, so you would need both of them, and they would both have to be in the same unit as the Warbosses. Haven't delved deeply into my new copy of the Ork Codex yet so I don't know if that can be done.

Is the Banner of da Great Waaagh! the same as a Waaagh Banner? Or are they 2 separate banners?

Banner of da Great Waaagh! is the formation's special rule, and it talks about the nob carrying the mandatory Waaagh! banner (piece of wargear).

You don't get +2 WS. You just get +1 and Fearless, alongside of the reroll bubble for failed Morale and Pinning checks.

RAW it looks like it's +3 WS, but I bet the intent is for the special rule to include and replace the normal banner rule.

 Kanluwen wrote:
You don't get +2 WS. You just get +1 and Fearless, alongside of the reroll bubble for failed Morale and Pinning checks.

Why?

 Jidmah wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
You don't get +2 WS. You just get +1 and Fearless, alongside of the reroll bubble for failed Morale and Pinning checks.

Why?

I'm referring specifically to the Waagh banner stuff. The reason being that it does not say under the Banner of the Great Waagh that "you gain an additional +1 WS".

Rule for applying Modifiers from multiple sources already covers that.

Multiple Modifiers wrote:If a model has a combination of rules or wargear that modify a characteristic, first apply any multipliers, then apply any additions or subtractions, and finally apply any set values. For example, if a model with Strength 4 has both ‘+1 Strength’ and ‘double Strength’, its final Strength is 9 (4×2=8, 8+1=9). If a model with Strength 4 has both ‘+1 Strength’ and ‘Strength 8’, its final Strength is 8 (ignore +1 Strength and set it at 8).

According to this, it doesn't have to say that. It's also not a special Waaagh! banner, but a special rule, which is not a piece of wargear. It doesn't say that it replaces the regular banner's effect, so on what base would you assume it does?

 Jidmah wrote:

Multiple Modifiers wrote:If a model has a combination of rules or wargear that modify a characteristic, first apply any multipliers, then apply any additions or subtractions, and finally apply any set values. For example, if a model with Strength 4 has both ‘+1 Strength’ and ‘double Strength’, its final Strength is 9 (4×2=8, 8+1=9). If a model with Strength 4 has both ‘+1 Strength’ and ‘Strength 8’, its final Strength is 8 (ignore +1 Strength and set it at 8).

According to this, it doesn't have to say that. It's also not a special Waaagh! banner, but a special rule, which is not a piece of wargear. It doesn't say that it replaces the regular banner's effect, so on what base would you assume it does?

On the base that it would say "As long as the bearer of the Waagh! banner is still alive, all models in the same unit have the Fearless special rule and add 2 to the Weapon Skill characteristic on their profile. In addition, all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12" re-roll failed Morale and Pinning checks."

It doesn't have to say that though.
The dudes are getting 1 WS from one source and 1 WS from another. The sources are irrelevant because a) nothing in either rule is preventing stacking and b) modifiers are allowed to stack.

You're making an assumption without rules support. I agree that's likely what's intended, but it's not at all what's written.

They don't have to say "This doesn't stack" because essentially the "Banner of da Great Waagh!" just expands the Waagh! Banner rules.

 Kanluwen wrote:
They don't have to say "This doesn't stack" because essentially the "Banner of da Great Waagh!" just expands the Waagh! Banner rules.

And I'm sure you have a rule to cite to back up that statement. From a RAW point of view.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
They don't have to say "This doesn't stack" because essentially the "Banner of da Great Waagh!" just expands the Waagh! Banner rules.

And I'm sure you have a rule to cite to back up that statement. From a RAW point of view.

Yeah.

Banner of da Great Waaagh!: As long as the bearer of the Waaagh! banner is still alive, all models in the same unit have the Fearless special rule and add 1 to the Weapon Skill characteristic on their profile. In addition, all friendly units with the Orks faction within 12" re-roll failed Morale and Pinning checks.

Nowhere does it say "add 2 to the Weapon Skill characteristic" like it would read if it were intended, since the Formation has a restriction of requiring a Waaagh! banner.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Nowhere does it say "add 2 to the Weapon Skill characteristic" like it would read if it were intended, since the Formation has a restriction of requiring a Waaagh! banner.

So you're arguing what they intended, not what's written? Cool, we agree.
That's not what you said earlier though,

You don't get +2 WS. You just get +1 and Fearless, alongside of the reroll bubble for failed Morale and Pinning check

I'm referring specifically to the Waagh banner stuff. The reason being that it does not say under the Banner of the Great Waagh that "you gain an additional +1 WS"

They don't have to say "This doesn't stack" because essentially the "Banner of da Great Waagh!" just expands the Waagh! Banner rules.

So you agree that, as written, they stack - correct? I'd hate to make an assumption.

 Kanluwen wrote:
They don't have to say "This doesn't stack" because essentially the "Banner of da Great Waagh!" just expands the Waagh! Banner rules.

Which it might be in your head, but not in the book.

I could argue that it was intended for this special Waaagh! banner to provide +2 WS because it encourages the orks even more than a regular Waaagh! banner or even his old banner, the Lucky Stikk. Also note how the Lucky Stikk explicitly tells us how it doesn't stack with a Waaagh! banner, while this does not.

Whatever. It's very clearly written and you just want it to read what you want, so have fun with that.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Whatever. It's very clearly written and you just want it to read what you want, so have fun with that.

So are you arguing raw, or failing to mark your posts as hywpi? Which is it?

The rule 'Ghazghkull's Leftenuntz' (or something) says that the Warbosses add +1 WS to their profile, then the standard Waaagh! banner piece of equipment grants a +1 also. I believe that it would say 'this does not stack with the standard +1 WS for a Waaagh! banner' if it didn't, as other equipment or rules sometimes specify.

'Banner of da Great Waaagh!' refers to the mandatory banner you have to take as a formation restriction and is only called Banner of da Great Waaagh! for the purposes of the unit (it is Ghazghkulls council of war afterall), it is not a different piece of equipment.
So the Warbosses gain a total of +2 WS to their profile and everybody else just gains the normal +1 WS. This is how I have understood it.

I have to side with the +3 WS for the Warbosses (and +2 for everybody else) camp as far as RAW goes (and even possibly RAI).

The Banner of da Great Waaagh! special rule doesn't say "instead of the usual Waaagh! Banner bonus...." or even indicates that you should replace the Waaagh! Banner special rules with the Banner of da Great Waaagh! rule, it just lists another set of bonuses for the formation.

I would think that if it was meant to replace the Waaagh! Banner rules, it would say something to the effect of "In addtion to the +1 WS bonus granted with the Waaagh! Banner, all models in the same unit have the Fearless special rule and all friendly units with the Orks Faction within 12” re-roll failed Morale and Pinning checks."

Why would RAI mean that the Warbosses end up being the same WS as Ghazghkull? He is the baddest Ork in the galaxy but a pathetic Warboss is just as skilled with a weapon? I play Orks and I think it's cheeky enough that the Warbosses are getting +2WS as it is, you people are dreaming.

Im also leaning towards the great waagh banner IS the single banner the nob is carrying, meaning the nobz have WS5 and the 2 warbosses have 7. But yes, they could have written is much more clear either way.
Its kinda like the ere we go for the dreadmob formation, not super clear.

@xlDuke Ghazghkull has a WS of 6, so the warbosses ends with the same WS as him RAI/RAW either way. (they all 3 end at either 7 or 8)

xlDuke wrote:
Why would RAI mean that the Warbosses end up being the same WS as Ghazghkull? He is the baddest Ork in the galaxy but a pathetic Warboss is just as skilled with a weapon? I play Orks and I think it's cheeky enough that the Warbosses are getting +2WS as it is, you people are dreaming.

That is still true even if you only add the +1 for the Waaagh! Banner. Ghaz has WS 6, stock Warboss has WS 5, which is increased to 6 with this formation, then you add all the other bonuses which apply to everybody.

I stand corrected on that point!

Also fluff-wise, Ghazghkull and his two Leftennanz are the three greates Warboss of the galaxy, so it's still fair

It's not clear from the quote, and I haven't gotten a look at the supplement yet. Is Banner of the Great Waaagh! a special rule for the formation, or is it a wargear entry? If it's a special rule for the formation, then they get +1 for the banner and +1 for the special rule. If it's a Wargear entry, it's overwriting the text of the existing banner, so it's only +1.

It's a special rule. One restriction for the formation is that you must purchase a Waaagh! banner for the Nobz and then the Banner of the Great Waaagh rule says that 'if the bearer of the Waaagh! banner is still alive all models in the unit have +1WS and Fearless'.

Then I don't see why it wouldn't stack. You've got a Waaagh! banner, which is giving you +1 WS, and you've got a special rule that confers benefits while the banner bearer is alive.