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In the new Ork book the ghazzy in his final moments was transported back in time to form "The Great WAAAGH" and as such he decided to go to the Overfiend of Octarius "to show what a real overfiend looks like"

On top of that, GW new entry for his "Da Goff Guard" states "When the Prophet of Gork and Mork cut deep into the Tyranids on Octaria, it was the black armoured might of the Goff Guard that chopped their way behind him."

This leads me to believe that ghazz broke the stalemate in the system? could this be true...could the Orks have finally come out on top?

p.s. I am lead to believe that Octaria is a typo on GWs part, due to the correlating evidence between Tyranids and Ghazzy going to Octarius(because come on Octaria and Octarius are super close)

No. What this means is that, where as before, the orks are now gaining ground instead of losing it. This in no way means that the stalemate is broken, it just means that the balance is swinging towards the orks. You have to understand that before Ghazzy arrived, the orks of the Octarius empire had been losing ground for some time. Imho Ghazzy just took the nids by surprised and with this, just pushed his advantage and took alot of ground back. The nids and orks are even, whereas before the nids were winning because of the Swarmlord was there adapting and guiding them, there had been sightings from the IoM that it had entered the Octarius war, which is why the nids had been slowly winning, now, the orks have Ghazzy who will hopefully match\beat the Swarmlord in tactics and strength.
I am a ork player who thinks that the orks will win if this fight actually ends, but just because Ghazzy shows up on one planet does not necessarily mean that the war is over. Just means that it is balancing out.

willhman wrote:
No. What this means is that, where as before, the orks are now gaining ground instead of losing it. This in no way means that the stalemate is broken, it just means that the balance is swinging towards the orks. You have to understand that before Ghazzy arrived, the orks of the Octarius empire had been losing ground for some time. Imho Ghazzy just took the nids by surprised and with this, just pushed his advantage and took alot of ground back. The nids and orks are even, whereas before the nids were winning because of the Swarmlord was there adapting and guiding them, there had been sightings from the IoM that it had entered the Octarius war, which is why the nids had been slowly winning, now, the orks have Ghazzy who will hopefully match\beat the Swarmlord in tactics and strength.
I am a ork player who thinks that the orks will win if this fight actually ends, but just because Ghazzy shows up on one planet does not necessarily mean that the war is over. Just means that it is balancing out.

Of course the whole war has swung back and forth so many times since it started that Ghazghull may well find himself bogged down in a meat grinder, just like Armageddon (which he essentially got bored of and went elsewhere). Which of course sort of works in his favor anyway because there is a certain wisdom to Ghazkhull travelling to all the major battles in the galaxy and stirring up the Ork hordes to Armageddon/Octarius levels of conflict.

Alternatively, Ghazkhull may end up with a Deathleaper to the face.

And where Ghazzy goes so Yarrik will end up. They'll be best buds and team up to fight the nids

that is what I find funny...ghazzy is finally in a place that Yarrik cannot follow. He literally went back in time to beat/gather all the great ork warlords throughout time..I got chills just reading that part in the codex.

We are talking Yarrick, Hell find a way even if he has to rip a hole in time with his bare hads he'll follow Gazzy to the end, middle and begging of time. Thats just how committed Yarick is

Xyptc wrote:

willhman wrote:
No. What this means is that, where as before, the orks are now gaining ground instead of losing it. This in no way means that the stalemate is broken, it just means that the balance is swinging towards the orks. You have to understand that before Ghazzy arrived, the orks of the Octarius empire had been losing ground for some time. Imho Ghazzy just took the nids by surprised and with this, just pushed his advantage and took alot of ground back. The nids and orks are even, whereas before the nids were winning because of the Swarmlord was there adapting and guiding them, there had been sightings from the IoM that it had entered the Octarius war, which is why the nids had been slowly winning, now, the orks have Ghazzy who will hopefully match\beat the Swarmlord in tactics and strength.
I am a ork player who thinks that the orks will win if this fight actually ends, but just because Ghazzy shows up on one planet does not necessarily mean that the war is over. Just means that it is balancing out.

Of course the whole war has swung back and forth so many times since it started that Ghazghull may well find himself bogged down in a meat grinder, just like Armageddon (which he essentially got bored of and went elsewhere). Which of course sort of works in his favor anyway because there is a certain wisdom to Ghazkhull travelling to all the major battles in the galaxy and stirring up the Ork hordes to Armageddon/Octarius levels of conflict.

Alternatively, Ghazkhull may end up with a Deathleaper to the face.

The Reason the Ghazzy left Armageddon was because the season of fire happened on the planet forcing both sides to take shelter for a certain amount of time. Ghazzy is fine with meat grinders, but if there is no fighting he will get bored and leave, nothing is gonna interrupt him here in the Ocarius sector.

If Deathleaper came after Ghazzy, Ghazzy would just head but it to death.

So now Ghazzy can time travel? HOW!?!

willhman wrote:
No. What this means is that, where as before, the orks are now gaining ground instead of losing it. This in no way means that the stalemate is broken, it just means that the balance is swinging towards the orks.

I may be misreading you here, but that is what it means to have a stalemate broken. The orks are starting to win.

 PhillyT wrote:

willhman wrote:
No. What this means is that, where as before, the orks are now gaining ground instead of losing it. This in no way means that the stalemate is broken, it just means that the balance is swinging towards the orks.

I may be misreading you here, but that is what it means to have a stalemate broken. The orks are starting to win.

What has happened is that the arrival of Ghazzy has surprised the nids and he has pushed them and taken lost ground. After awhile the nids\Swarmlord(if he is in the Octarius sector that is) will then be able to adapt and plan accordingly. The situation before was that the nids had gained the advantage and was slowly starting to snowball. Ghazzy has arrived halting their advance and retaking ground that the orks had lost previously. There is no clear winner in this fight still, so it is still up to either army to win, which is why I still believe that the stalemate is still there.

The arrival of Ghazzy is probably just going to stabilize the situation, allowing for some hopefully good fluff on how the SL and Ghazzy outfight and outsmart each other. Now I should not have said "no" and should have said "not necessarily" because we just do not have enough information on the situation at this point. Knowing GW though this is just going to stabilize the situation.

willhman wrote:
The arrival of Ghazzy is probably just going to stabilize the situation, allowing for some hopefully good fluff on how the SL and Ghazzy outfight and outsmart each other. Now I should not have said "no" and should have said "not necessarily" because we just do not have enough information on the situation at this point. Knowing GW though this is just going to stabilize the situation.

Knowing GW, aye.

But maybe this will be the end of the Tyranids. Growing your weapons when you could build them, then attaching them to your warrior instead of hands when they could have hands and a choice of weapons... Is there any more stupid way of making war? The poor bugs are expending tremendous resources on fighting in stupid ways, maybe because this is the first galaxy where they have actually encountered opposition beyond a planet-bound civilization. This is the galaxy that will make or break them forever.

edit: so GW - stalemate

Spetulhu wrote:

willhman wrote:
The arrival of Ghazzy is probably just going to stabilize the situation, allowing for some hopefully good fluff on how the SL and Ghazzy outfight and outsmart each other. Now I should not have said "no" and should have said "not necessarily" because we just do not have enough information on the situation at this point. Knowing GW though this is just going to stabilize the situation.

Knowing GW, aye.

But maybe this will be the end of the Tyranids. Growing your weapons when you could build them, then attaching them to your warrior instead of hands when they could have hands and a choice of weapons... Is there any more stupid way of making war? The poor bugs are expending tremendous resources on fighting in stupid ways, maybe because this is the first galaxy where they have actually encountered opposition beyond a planet-bound civilization. This is the galaxy that will make or break them forever.

edit: so GW - stalemate

An alternative take is that Behemoth, Kraken, Gorgon, Leviathan etc are all the equivalent of vanguard organisms on a galactic scale, sent in to assess the resistance in the galaxy. Armed with the appropriate knowledge of what awaits them, the Tyranids then turn the genetics of the indigenous races against them and deploy Tyranids designed specifically to exterminate Orks/Eldar/humans, built out of Orks/Eldar/humans.

The Valedor novel implies this is very much the case. Wars like Octarius, Ichar IV, Macragge and Duriel are exactly what the Hive Mind wants.

Not even the Stormlord can "adapt & plan accordingly" against the Orks what makes you think the Swarmlord can?

Orks wuz mad ta fight, an win!

 Dinamarth wrote:
Not even the Stormlord can "adapt & plan accordingly" against the Orks what makes you think the Swarmlord can?

Orks wuz mad ta fight, an win!

Except they demonstrably can and have done so. The entire point of the Ghorala swarm fluff is that the part of Hive Fleet Leviathan that entered the Octarius sector was destroyed in the Ghorala system by the Orks, to the point where the last surviving bioship in the system was forced to dump all of its spores at the main Ork world as a last ditch attempt to survive, and was then killed.

The Tyranids in the spores waged guerrilla warfare against the Orks (which vastly outnumbered/out-gunned them and had complete air supremacy), built up their biomass, learnt about the Ork leadership, baited the Ork warlord into a trap, killed him and then devoured the planet in the ensuing infighting. Within a year, the planet was consumed and the Tyranids had birthed a whole new fleet of bioships to spread out into the rest of the Octarius system.

That's the cool thing about the Orks vs Tyranids conflict; it really could go on forever (well almost; eventually Leviathan will have scoured enough worlds to make the sector worthless to the Orks - many of those worlds they are winning back will have almost no value by this point).

Well it isn't helped by the fact that much of the Tyranid fluff is the most garbage produced.

 PhillyT wrote:
Well it isn't helped by the fact that much of the Tyranid fluff is the most garbage produced.

What can I say? You are what you eat.

Xyptc wrote:

 Dinamarth wrote:
Not even the Stormlord can "adapt & plan accordingly" against the Orks what makes you think the Swarmlord can?

Orks wuz mad ta fight, an win!

Except they demonstrably can and have done so. The entire point of the Ghorala swarm fluff is that the part of Hive Fleet Leviathan that entered the Octarius sector was destroyed in the Ghorala system by the Orks, to the point where the last surviving bioship in the system was forced to dump all of its spores at the main Ork world as a last ditch attempt to survive, and was then killed.

The Tyranids in the spores waged guerrilla warfare against the Orks (which vastly outnumbered/out-gunned them and had complete air supremacy), built up their biomass, learnt about the Ork leadership, baited the Ork warlord into a trap, killed him and then devoured the planet in the ensuing infighting. Within a year, the planet was consumed and the Tyranids had birthed a whole new fleet of bioships to spread out into the rest of the Octarius system.

That's the cool thing about the Orks vs Tyranids conflict; it really could go on forever (well almost; eventually Leviathan will have scoured enough worlds to make the sector worthless to the Orks - many of those worlds they are winning back will have almost no value by this point).

... Umm lulz orks don't care about worlds, they just wanna fight an winz. Also orks can actually repopulate a world by nids fairly quickly. They have a moving ecosystem with them where ever they go, so this fight can go on forever if no clear winner appears.

I still hold the theory that the Nids are running from whatever was in there original galaxy.


..which were many many..many orks.

willhman wrote:
... Umm lulz orks don't care about worlds, they just wanna fight an winz. Also orks can actually repopulate a world by nids fairly quickly. They have a moving ecosystem with them where ever they go, so this fight can go on forever if no clear winner appears.

Orks still need a place to live, and Tyranids absorb everything of value from a planet; all the biomass, every drop of water, every mineral in the soil. Even Ork spores need nutrients to grow. So no, Orks should not be able to re-colonize the dead husks Tyranids leave behind them.

tgjensen wrote:

willhman wrote:
... Umm lulz orks don't care about worlds, they just wanna fight an winz. Also orks can actually repopulate a world by nids fairly quickly. They have a moving ecosystem with them where ever they go, so this fight can go on forever if no clear winner appears.

Orks still need a place to live, and Tyranids absorb everything of value from a planet; all the biomass, every drop of water, every mineral in the soil. Even Ork spores need nutrients to grow. So no, Orks should not be able to re-colonize the dead husks Tyranids leave behind them.

That is true, but the orks can provide that in the form of dead bodies. Orks crash land on a planet that the nids had eaten, thinking that there was still fighting to happen, when they find out that there is no more nids, couple of boyz and grots die, and the orks leave their excrement all over their landing area, then they leave, this thus provides the needed nutrients for the orks to re-colonize for the orks. Orks being messy and unsanitary may seem barbaric, and it is, but it is a great way for them to be able to reproduce faster and in more places. Now I am not saying that ork warbands are gonna land on dead worlds and do this, but I am saying that this is a possibility, and that there is still a chance for this to happen.

The idea that tyranids are 100% efficient is silly, yet it seems like a foundational concept in many people's argument of the effectiveness of tyranids.

 PhillyT wrote:
The idea that tyranids are 100% efficient is silly, yet it seems like a foundational concept in many people's argument of the effectiveness of tyranids.

What is perhaps even sillier is the idea that the Orks somehow magic the conditions needed to breed, mature, survive and rise above the feral Ork stage on a truly dead world.

Isolated enclaves of Orks might pop up, but even Orks have trouble when there is no atmosphere.

Xyptc wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
The idea that tyranids are 100% efficient is silly, yet it seems like a foundational concept in many people's argument of the effectiveness of tyranids.

What is perhaps even sillier is the idea that the Orks somehow magic the conditions needed to breed, mature, survive and rise above the feral Ork stage on a truly dead world.

Isolated enclaves of Orks might pop up, but even Orks have trouble when there is no atmosphere.

Someone who posts around here has a quote of mine in their signature.. It mentions Orks running around in the nude bashing one another's heads in with rocks. That's what Orks would come to on world which the Tyranids had laid waste to.

The upside is that, should other space-faring Orks come along, the on-world Orks could be recruited to the cause of fighting nids.

Xyptc wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
The idea that tyranids are 100% efficient is silly, yet it seems like a foundational concept in many people's argument of the effectiveness of tyranids.

What is perhaps even sillier is the idea that the Orks somehow magic the conditions needed to breed, mature, survive and rise above the feral Ork stage on a truly dead world.

Isolated enclaves of Orks might pop up, but even Orks have trouble when there is no atmosphere.

What? orks need a atmosphere? When has that been a part of the fluff?

Seriously now, the fluff has given examples of ork raiding ships being destroyed next to asteroid belts and then years later we will see ork roks raiding those same areas. Coincidence maybe or it is the possibility that orks can reproduce in areas with no atmosphere.In the Gothic war Shadowpoint,might be Execution Hour, we see it happens there. Also as I said before, orks own lifestyle helps their own growth on a planet, all it takes is one crash landing and we have feral orks in the years to come.

To get back on topic

Ghazzy has a giant fleet of orks coming with him and he is no stranger to attrition battle or high thinking tactics..if anyone has a chance to take them out it is him.

Space Marines stopped a hive fleet, why can't the best Ork one that had both Gork and Mork intervene and prevent his death do it as well.