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Pretty straight forward. Is any grey knight player having luck with mordak in 7th?

Looking to build a fun alpha strike list with mordak leading the charge. Curious if anyone is doing good

Mordrak is the preferred HQ in many Shunt based lists, so yes, Mordrak is seeing quite a lot of play right now. One build that pops up on the webs is Mordrak + Draigo in an Aplha bomb supported by two shunting NDKs and 20-30 GK Interceptors, while a small number of Solodins DS to secure objectives. Both GMs have the Grand Strategy, allowing to entire army (minus the HQ bomb) to score like Troops. A common variant is to squeeze in a Stormraven for AA and Anti-Psyker goodness. Usually nets 12-13 WC before die roll.

There is also the Inquisitor Bomb list, that mates several PML1 Inquisitors in TDA w/ Psycannons to Mordrak for an Invisible Alpha Bomb that includes a truck-load of S7 Rending.

On a personal note, I'm still rocking a TDA heavy Ghostwing list, focused on TDA MSU. People still have trouble rooting out TDA in cover, and Mordrak is still a great "transport" for a Librarian or other appropriate multi-PML Power-caddy.

SJ

I have trouble seeing how a shunt list can be good. Let me clarify, I don't see it being a good 'alpha strike' list. Mordak and whoever he brings will be extremely expensive for the very limited firepower they can put out on turn 1.

The beauty of a Shunt list is all or most of your units are in your opponent's deployment zone on turn 1 killing support units, taking objectives, and reducing your opponent's ability to fight back going into turn 2. Its an aggressive Blitz list, that goes all in on turn one. What the Mordrak Bomb brings to the Shunt list is a guaranteed no-scatter DS on turn 1 that delivers a Psychic payload wrapped in a resilient shell that forces your opponent to deal with the Bomb (and ignore the Shunt), or deal with the Shunt (and ignore the Bomb).

It's about board control, setting the pace, and turn 1 dominance.

SJ

But mordrak and his ghosts don't do anything turn one. Just a few bolter shots. The only alpha strike is whatever the Psyker you bring along can do. 500+ points for not much offense turn one.

Shunt lists seem like they have very little alpha strike on turn 1, but have a nice punch turn 2 provided they don't get shot up too much.

Mmmmm, you do know that Shunting is a 30" move that ignores intervening terrain? As in, a 66" threat range if deployed from your deployment zone edge? And not only to most GKIS use Psybolts for S5 Stormbolters, the NDKs have Torrent heavy Flamers. You literally pop up field, fry enemy soft units, and have the resiliency to still be there turn 2. Add to that a TDA threat in the backfield that can tank ID while going toe-to-toe with Deathstars and MCs.

Really, the only thing going against a Mordrak-Shunt list is low model count.

SJ

I don't know the intricacies of GK, only having the Inq dex... can mordak shunt any unit he joins? Or just GK? Can he shunt a 50man AM blob with poweraxes, meltabombs and flamers, with a supporting priest for fearless, rerolls to hit (and maybe wound) and an attached xenos inquisitor with rad granades. If so can the unit be given orders?
If this is possible you are looking at a 415pt unit + mordak that can seriously cause issues in the opponents deployment zone turn1. Also counters low model count somewhat.
Or is this a flight of fancy and unallowed with the rules?

Poly Ranger wrote:
I don't know the intricacies of GK, only having the Inq dex... can mordak shunt any unit he joins? Or just GK? Can he shunt a 50man AM blob with poweraxes, meltabombs and flamers, with a supporting priest for fearless, rerolls to hit (and maybe wound) and an attached xenos inquisitor with rad granades. If so can the unit be given orders?
If this is possible you are looking at a 415pt unit + mordak that can seriously cause issues in the opponents deployment zone turn1. Also counters low model count somewhat.
Or is this a flight of fancy and unallowed with the rules?

Mordrak is a character but not an independent character. He comes with his own unit of Terminator 'Ghost Knights' and he has a special rule that allows him and his unit to Deep Strike on turn 1 without scattering.

So only Independent Characters that can also Deep Strike can join him to benefit from his turn 1 Deep Strike.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In an Apocolypse game I took 10 Grand Masters with PML 2 for the lols and attached them to Mordrak's unit. It was untouchable and erased entire units during the psychic phase, very amusing.

Ahhh thats a pity. Although your apocalypse unit sounds a blast!

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Mmmmm, you do know that Shunting is a 30" move that ignores intervening terrain? As in, a 66" threat range if deployed from your deployment zone edge? And not only to most GKIS use Psybolts for S5 Stormbolters, the NDKs have Torrent heavy Flamers. You literally pop up field, fry enemy soft units, and have the resiliency to still be there turn 2. Add to that a TDA threat in the backfield that can tank ID while going toe-to-toe with Deathstars and MCs.

Really, the only thing going against a Mordrak-Shunt list is low model count.

SJ

Thanks for ignoring what I said and implying I didn't know what the shunt move entailed.

Again, I said Mordrak and his ghost crew are expensive and offer little in the way of an alpha strike. An additional HQ added to then ups the offensive power, some, but it's still hugely expensive for a poor alpha strike from that unit.

That's what you were responding to. Now, on top of that I am going to say something new. 7th means more MSU and more mech. S5 stormbolters don't impress me much. Not much of an alpha strike if interceptors can barely take out a couple of rhinos.

It doesn't kill everything but it is still a very competitive list. Anything not in a vehicle (except open topped vehicles... lol at the new template rules) can get alpha striked from a shunt list. If you're only fighting vehicles then you might pop something turn 1 with combined psycannon fire from interceptors but otherwise you'll just have to surround them the best you can to limit their movement and hope you survive to turn 2. Target saturation is what you're going for and Mordrak is a good HQ for a Shunt list because he easily adds himself to the pool of threats on turn 1.

Maybe I play too many mech lists in my meta because I run GK and never got around to using Mordrak because I feel it would perform horribly relative to the points spent on his squad.

Maybe I'll try a shunt list without Mordrak.

Super Newb wrote:
Maybe I play too many mech lists in my meta because I run GK and never got around to using Mordrak because I feel it would perform horribly relative to the points spent on his squad.

Maybe I'll try a shunt list without Mordrak.

If you Deep Strike Mordrak near 2 or 3 valuable vehicles then he MUST die or your opponent is going to start losing vehicles to his hammer on turn 2. At the sametime you have 2 DKs within threat range and interceptors nearby also with hammers. So now what does your opponent's parking lot do? Which is the bigger threat?

If they're Eldar then they can try to run away with their Wave Serpents but the board is too crowded for all of them to escape. Everything else is just going to have to try and fight it out. You force their hand.

First, let's look at the post I responded to:

Super Newb wrote:
But mordrak and his ghosts don't do anything turn one. Just a few bolter shots. The only alpha strike is whatever the Psyker you bring along can do. 500+ points for not much offense turn one.

Shunt lists seem like they have very little alpha strike on turn 1, but have a nice punch turn 2 provided they don't get shot up too much.

Now let's look at my response:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Mmmmm, you do know that Shunting is a 30" move that ignores intervening terrain? As in, a 66" threat range if deployed from your deployment zone edge? And not only to most GKIS use Psybolts for S5 Stormbolters, the NDKs have Torrent heavy Flamers. You literally pop up field, fry enemy soft units, and have the resiliency to still be there turn 2. Add to that a TDA threat in the backfield that can tank ID while going toe-to-toe with Deathstars and MCs.

Really, the only thing going against a Mordrak-Shunt list is low model count.

SJ

So, looks like I addressed your concern about a perceived lack of turn 1 Alpha strike by pointing out all of the turn 1 striking ability. While I did not address Mordrak's cost, there was no need to: he costs what he costs. If you don't want to use him, then don't.

SJ

Lol! Ha ha ha ha! You're hilarious! Let's not worry about unit costs in a tactics thread. The points efficiency of a unit has nothing to do with army tactics! Lol. God, you are just too much. Anyway, thanks for giving me a hearty belly laugh.

Super Newb wrote:
Lol! Ha ha ha ha! You're hilarious! Let's not worry about unit costs in a tactics thread. The points efficiency of a unit has nothing to do with army tactics! Lol. God, you are just too much. Anyway, thanks for giving me a hearty belly laugh.

Your post did not indicate you have ever tried shunting, much less knew what it was. Reading your post I assumed you were offering input without ever trying it, which still sounds correct. Stop stroking your e-peen and contribute or GTFO of the thread.

1) I have contributed. Points efficiency matters in this game - *especially* in competitive lists. Mordrak and his ghosts are very expensive. Yes, they can be turn 2 threat, but I am not sure that is enough, as Turn 1 they do very very little for the points invested.

2) Did you just admit to everyone you have more than two accounts here? You're responding as if I was already talking with you here. Very bizarre.

Both of you should calm down and discuss the matter in a style befitting DakkaDakka.

So, here's the thing, when your original post asked for advice on using Mordrak in an Alpha Strike role, I was not aware that you had no intention of using Mordrak due to his cost. Let's look at what you originally wrote:

 Smotejob wrote:
Pretty straight forward. Is any grey knight player having luck with mordak in 7th?

Looking to build a fun alpha strike list with mordak leading the charge. Curious if anyone is doing good

"Looking to build a fun alpha strike list with Mordrak leading the charge," to which I posted a valid, widely used Mordrak tactic, and to which lead to this comment:

Super Newb wrote:
Lol! Ha ha ha ha! You're hilarious! Let's not worry about unit costs in a tactics thread. The points efficiency of a unit has nothing to do with army tactics! Lol. God, you are just too much. Anyway, thanks for giving me a hearty belly laugh.

I'm guessing your original post was an attempt to troll for a response you could then lampoon. Well sorry to inform you, but that goes against forum tenets. I will however address the Mordrak cost question, since you find a unit's cost to have tactical value. The line "looking to build a fun alpha strike list with Mordrak leading the charge" implies that you have accepted the cost of using Mordrak so as to unlock his special rules, and wish to learn how to use those rules tactically. This means that the cost of the unit was considered, and the value of the rules being unlocked were seen as being worth the cost of the unit. As such, there is no value in complaining about Mordrak's point cost nor is there value in disregarding proposed tactics base on an accepted points cost. If your original post was not a troll, then there was no need for your later states regarding Mordrak's cost impacting any tactical use of Mordrak.

So again, I stand by my statement that Mordrak's cost is either accepted in order to uses his rules, or it us not acceptable which leads you to not using him at all. And seeing as you asked about using Mordrak tactically, Mordrak's cost is a non-factor in any tactics that includes Mordrak's rules. Mordrak is a Transport with a set minimal cost to unlock his special rules; if you chose to use Mordrak's rules, then you have chosen to pay for Mordrak.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

So again, I stand by my statement that Mordrak's cost is either accepted in order to uses his rules, or it us not acceptable which leads you to not using him at all. And seeing as you asked about using Mordrak tactically, Mordrak's cost is a non-factor in any tactics that includes Mordrak's rules. Mordrak is a Transport with a set minimal cost to unlock his special rules; if you chose to use Mordrak's rules, then you have chosen to pay for Mordrak.

SJ

You might want to double check who made the OP. (It wasn't Super Newb) The OP (Smotejob) asked about using Mordrak and Super Newb said he doesn't think he is worth it because of the cost and the fact that on turn 1 Mordrak and his unit don't do much.

Back on topic, Shunt Lists are competitive because they deliver a lot of high-threat targets to the enemy on turn 1, leaving them with 1 turn to deal with all of them before being clobbered. Mordrak serves well in this roll mainly because the rest of the HQ choices for Grey Knights do not. The rest need at least 2 turns to do what Mordrak does on turn 1. The added bonus is that Mordrak can take an IC with him that will give his unit some punch on Turn 1 instead of just hoping to survive to turn 2.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I'm guessing your original post was an attempt to troll for a response you could then lampoon.

Oh dear. "Smotejob" and "Super Newb" aren't very close at all. I mean they both start with an 'S' and end with a 'b' but that's it. One guy has a profile pic and the other doesn't. One is one word the other is two words. I'm just shaking my head here.


*Anyway*, Mordrak and his ghosts are a 400 point investment. More if another IC is brought along. 500-600 points then. I'm wondering if a cheap GK HQ instead is the more competitive way to go, and then some allied drop pods to better fill the alpha strike role... Smotejob did say "alpha strike" list. Mordrak is definitely a "beta strike" character.

Super Newb wrote:

*Anyway*, Mordrak and his ghosts are a 400 point investment. More if another IC is brought along. 500-600 points then. I'm wondering if a cheap GK HQ instead is the more competitive way to go, and then some allied drop pods to better fill the alpha strike role...

Since IC can join single model units now, you only need to invest 200 points for Mordrak himself and maybe 40 more points for a single Ghost Knight to give the unit Stealth. After that you can attach any ol' IC and you can put Mordrak in front to tank the wounds.

So 240 pts for Mordrak and a Ghost Knight to provide turn 1 transport for an IC and to provide turn 2 Thunder Hammer assault. You could attach Draigo and use single Paladins as Troops choices, that would actually save you points since GK Troop choices are not able to Shunt and are expensive. Draigo and Mordrak together can take a huge beating and still survive. I'd say an opponent would be foolish to try and kill these two rather than going for the 2-3 DKs and Interceptor squads that shunted turn 1.

Or you can ally in a small Space Marine drop pod force and attach one of their ICs. I can't think of the names of any of them but I'm sure there's a couple that you wouldn't want to see in your face turn 1.

Zimko wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

*Anyway*, Mordrak and his ghosts are a 400 point investment. More if another IC is brought along. 500-600 points then. I'm wondering if a cheap GK HQ instead is the more competitive way to go, and then some allied drop pods to better fill the alpha strike role...

Since IC can join single model units now, you only need to invest 200 points for Mordrak himself and maybe 40 more points for a single Ghost Knight to give the unit Stealth. After that you can attach any ol' IC and you can put Mordrak in front to tank the wounds. ... You could attach Draigo ...

Hmm, good point there. The Mordrak / Draigo bomb isn't nearly as expensive then. I doubt that's super competitive but it sounds pretty good, it would be a tough squad. Also, only having one Ghost terminator or two, means you don't cry as much when Mordrak dies from an ID high strength attack and then your ghosts go poof.

Super Newb wrote:
Smotejob did say "alpha strike" list. Mordrak is definitely a "beta strike" character.

And Mordrak is, indeed, a very powerful element of the GK shunt list. He is not merely a delivery vehicle for another character (although, ignoring that aspect would be unwise), His ability to be precisely where you want him to be is very useful. Do not dismiss the effectiveness of 10+ stormbolter shots against rear AV10, or against a small enemy objective holding/supporting unit. Do not also dismiss the role he plays in the overall army as well. A good shunt army will have Mordrak, 2+ Dreadknights, and 2+ Interceptor squads all in the opponent's face on Turn 1. A shunt list's "alpha strike" isn't solely confined to Turn 1. They will use their firepower on Turn 1 to remove at least one immediate threat, and continue to shoot and assault on Turn 2. Mordrak is a key element of that, as he provides an additional threat for the opponent to deal with.

Has anyone tried to do a shunt / drop pod hybrid list? With Mordrak or without. I am wondering how well that would work...

Sternguard w/ ,multimelta in a drop pod dropping behind armor as your grey knights shunt forward make for a pretty good alpha strike... then you can just add whichever grey knight hq you desire to take in the drop pod unit to tank for the sternguard.

Well, I wouldn't give Mordrak a shot in a competitive army.
Alpha strike is very situational. Mostly, it makes no sense to sacrifice Mordrak and Ghosts for another unit or units of the same value, since they have more to offer than dying or getting decimated in turn 1 or 2.

I've been running Mordak lists in 7th and so i hope this helps.

A Mordrak based list can be great, but as people have already pointed out he can lack the resilience needed to carry an Alpha Strike strategy, and it really depends on who you're up against.

Luckily, GKs lists contain some of the most flexible multi-purpose units. Also, list tailoring for the faction you'll be playing against has be legitimised in 7th edition.

I try to take advantage of this by running lists that can switch between an Alpha and Beta strike strategy with small adjustments depending on the faction I'm up against, the mission we're playing and how I expect my opponent to play that mission.

Alpha Strike Mordrak needs support from DKs and Interceptors. If you send him out on his own or even with a hefty squad of Ghosts, you can expect your opponent to concentrate on killing him on their turn after he lands. If you team him up with a Libby or Inq who rolled helpful psychic powers, and you position their landing carefully, you can do serious damage to your opponent in turn one, but you're really relying on good table rolls.

moving interceptors and DKs up the board with him provides more targets for your opponent, but those interceptors are very likely to die (maybe taking out a single unit of troops before they go) and they're a REALLY expensive way to annoy your opponent. In my experience, shunting interceptors turn one will result in dead interceptors.

DKs are more resilient, and you can get lucky - they could last the whole game - but not out on their own. If combined with Interceptors, the opponent will probably concentrate on them. They're less resilient and still very expensive.

So an Alpha strike can be devastating in turn one, and it's very rewarding to watch your opponent's face as they get hit by incinerators and psycannons, but if you are unlucky and/or your opponent is good, it may fall a bit flat. you need to be absolutely sure that Alpha strike is the right thing to do for that game/opponent/mission.

Recently, I've been leaning towards a Beta strike strategy, with some nice successes!

Most of the new missions rely on taking/holding objectives, and killing your enemy MUST come second to this. Interceptors, shunting DKs and turn-1 Deepstriking models are SO valuable for the new missions, that they pretty much must survive the opening rounds of the game.

Save that shunt move for picking up late game objectives when one or two extra points could easily win you the game.

Interceptors - use that 12 inch move to get into position for your turn 2 assault, where incinerators and storm bolters followed by force weapon charges and Hammer of Wrath can really make a huge difference (same with DKs).

If mordrak gives these units scout, you can almost have them anywhere you want on the board turn-one without using up your shunt (either way they can't assault turn-one).

Mordrak - plonk him on top of an unclaimed objective in cover (but still in your opponent's half of the board). A couple of ghost knights in front of him, plus stealth will make him loads more resilient, and he'll still be a priority target. sometimes your opponent will come to you, other times he's controlling a massive section of the board. Either way, he can probably do more if he survives the game than a devastating Alpha followed by death. I like to run him with a Libby, and if i have the points - teleport homer. My reserved termies can then back him up from turn 2 onwards turning a medium-resilience unit into a power-house team. Rolling well for Psychic Powers can make an Alpha Strike more tempting though.

The typical shunt list features units that are mobile and deadly, and can pick their targets and objectives to a certain extent - just too good in a Maelstrom mission to risk in an Alpha strike. Using that first turn for perfect positioning followed by the Beta Stike backed up by reserves is a very strong strategy.

I've really found that my opponents are so worried about dealing with me that they sometimes just ignore objectives completely. Meanwhile, I'm scoring objectives AND doing plenty of damage - just not as much as that first turn Alpha.

Beta seems to really be better than Alpha Strike, but be flexible enough that you can swap strategy in the right situation.

Finally, Alpha strike is a hell of a lot more fun for that first turn.

Mordrak isn't in the new GK codex. One of the many things GW cut out of the codex (yet is charging even more money. Less options for more money, the GW way). :(

Super Newb wrote:
Mordrak isn't in the new GK codex. One of the many things GW cut out of the codex (yet is charging even more money. Less options for more money, the GW way). :(

Why would you pull this up from a month ago :/