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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 01:43:18
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Wow, never thought I would see the day when someone had more insane prices than GW.
I was on Steam, and saw that Privateer Press game Warmachine is having a computer game. For early access, all you have to pay is $65 American, and I think $85 for the Brits. Game is only in Beta and they are charging more than FULL PRICE.
I guess everyone is learning after GW now. So since 40K is becoming like a video game, with DLC (supplement books and Data Slates) and this video game based on miniatures, do you think GW will just do something even more insane? After seeing this, what do you think will be in store for us now?
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Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong". |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 02:02:02
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot
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I think you get some perks for buying into the beta.
Your name in the credits or something.
Essentially this, if it is too rich for your blood wait until it comes out.
I imagine only the real gung ho warmachine players are investing in the beta anyways.
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Captain Killhammer McFighterson stared down at the surface of Earth from his high vantage point on the bridge of Starship Facemelter. Something ominous was looming on the surface. He could see a great shadow looming just underneath the waters of the Gulf of Mexico, slowly spreading northward. "That can't be good..." he muttered to himself while rubbing the super manly stubble on his chin with one hand. "But... on the other hand..." he looked at his shiny new bionic murder-arm. "This could be the perfect chance for that promotion." A perfect roundhouse kick slammed the ship's throttle into full gear. Soon orange jets of superheated plasma were visible from the space-windshield as Facemelter reentered the atmosphere at breakneck speed. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 02:23:34
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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There are a bunch of DLC units that early adopters will get for free, and I believe retail customers will have to pay extra for. The early access is pretty much a digital deluxe edition with bonus beta access.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 03:11:44
Subject: Re:And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Fail?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 03:22:00
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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Google Elite Dangerous Beta, read about it, then get back to me.
For those without Google-fu enabled, $150.00 to get expanded beta access. You read that right. Or if you want regular beta access, it can be yours for the low low price of $75.00. Pure digital product, $75.00 or $150.00. No. Thank. You.
https://store.zaonce.net/
Link provided purely as proof to the statement made.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/11 03:25:15
You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 04:09:55
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Sister Vastly Superior
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A lot of these games up on early access that you see with huge prices to get into beta actually have a very good reason for doing so. Many of these games started out on kickstarter and in order to get access to the beta you needed to pledge a certain amount, often more than what just buying the game itself would cost.
What kickstarter developers do is not screw over the people who pledge money and put their faith in them from the begining and make the early access cost the same as what the kickstarter pledge cost to get into the beta was. Just imagine how you would feel if you pledge a kickstarter game at a higher level to get into the beta only to later see people paying less than you to get the same thing.
It just unfortunate that many people don't understand this and just look at the price and start complaining about outrageous pricing. Planetary Anihilation was also a big victim of this reciving lots of critisicm from many gaming news sites that really should have known better.
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Double Fine Adventure, Wasteland 2, Nekro, Shadowrun Returns, Tropes vs. Women in Video Games, Planetary Annihilation, Project Eternity, Distance, Dreamfall Chapters, Torment: Tides of Numenera, Consortium, Divinity: Original Sin, Smart Guys, Raging Heroes - The Toughest Girls of the Galaxy, Armikrog, Massive Chalice, Satellite Reign, Cthulhu Wars, Warmachine: Tactics, Game Loading: Rise Of The Indies, Indie Statik, Awesomenauts: Starstorm, Cosmic Star Heroine, THE LONG DARK, The Mandate, Stasis, Hand of Fate, Upcycled Machined Dice, Legend of Grimrock: The Series, Unsung Story: Tale of the Guardians, Cyberpunk Soundtracks, Darkest Dungeon, Starcrawlers
I have a KickStarter problem. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 04:15:23
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Maryland
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Madcat87 wrote: What kickstarter developers do is not screw over the people who pledge money and put their faith in them from the begining and make the early access cost the same as what the kickstarter pledge cost to get into the beta was. Just imagine how you would feel if you pledge a kickstarter game at a higher level to get into the beta only to later see people paying less than you to get the same thing. The solution is simple, then. The developers either shouldn't have put the Beta access level at $65 during the Kickstarter, or they should have restricted Beta access only to people who pledged for it during the Kickstarter. As the whole point of the Beta is to allow more people to test the game outside of the development team, who would be better than the people who cared enough to Kickstart the game in the first place?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/11 04:16:55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 04:23:54
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Sister Vastly Superior
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Why does there need to be a solution? There is no problem. No one is being scammed or ripped off, they're getting the exact same amount of content as everyone else who paid the same price.
This really is a case of don't like it, don't buy it, wait til the game is actually released and buy a complete version at a lower price.
The higher price point allows people who wanted to kickstart it but weren't able to at the time, they're giving people an option to continue supporting the game after the kickstarter has ended and this is considered a bad thing?
The video game industry has many issues with horrible pricing schemes I'll admit, this is not one of them.
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Double Fine Adventure, Wasteland 2, Nekro, Shadowrun Returns, Tropes vs. Women in Video Games, Planetary Annihilation, Project Eternity, Distance, Dreamfall Chapters, Torment: Tides of Numenera, Consortium, Divinity: Original Sin, Smart Guys, Raging Heroes - The Toughest Girls of the Galaxy, Armikrog, Massive Chalice, Satellite Reign, Cthulhu Wars, Warmachine: Tactics, Game Loading: Rise Of The Indies, Indie Statik, Awesomenauts: Starstorm, Cosmic Star Heroine, THE LONG DARK, The Mandate, Stasis, Hand of Fate, Upcycled Machined Dice, Legend of Grimrock: The Series, Unsung Story: Tale of the Guardians, Cyberpunk Soundtracks, Darkest Dungeon, Starcrawlers
I have a KickStarter problem. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 04:47:44
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Repentia Mistress
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It does seem steep pricing to me. A lot of the full, non-beta games you get from Steam cost less than that. Or at least the ones I've bought, like Crysis and XCOM. And these are pretty mainstream titles.
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DS:70+S+G+M-B--IPw40k94-D+++A++/wWD380R+T(D)DM+
Avatar scene by artist Nicholas Kay. Give credit where it's due! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 04:51:08
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion
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milkboy wrote:It does seem steep pricing to me. A lot of the full, non-beta games you get from Steam cost less than that. Or at least the ones I've bought, like Crysis and XCOM. And these are pretty mainstream titles.
So...you are just ignoring the 'they did it so they didn't insult X backers who pledged at that level and above' point? Or did you actually miss the posts on it, or do you think companies should run kickstarters, then kick whoever supported them in the nuts when it comes to early-release
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I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 05:19:03
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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Maybe they should just expect reasonable prices from everybody.
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P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 05:21:39
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion
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Don't get me wrong, their recent price rises (like Imperatus and Stryker3, ridiculous pricing?), but this particular game isn't the issue people seem to be making it out to be in my opinion.
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I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 05:24:55
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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I agree, its slightly overpriced but meh you and me are used used to $90-$110 day 1 releases so this doesn't strike me as too outlandish, certainly not in comparison to GW's prices. Game certainly isn't cheap, however I payed $90 for Xcom: Enemy Unknown when it was released, probably somewhat comparable to what you'll be getting here.
It's not cheap for what it is though.
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P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 05:27:03
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion
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SHUPPET wrote:I agree, its slightly overpriced but meh you and me are used used to $90-$110 day 1 releases so this doesn't strike me as too outlandish, certainly not in comparison to GW's prices. Game certainly isn't cheap, however I payed $90 for Xcom: Enemy Unknown when it was released, probably somewhat comparable to what you'll be getting here.
It's not cheap for what it is though.
True, my aussie prices for games (before I discovered steam sales) is probably skewing my vision a bit.
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I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 05:30:35
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Repentia Mistress
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motyak wrote: milkboy wrote:It does seem steep pricing to me. A lot of the full, non-beta games you get from Steam cost less than that. Or at least the ones I've bought, like Crysis and XCOM. And these are pretty mainstream titles.
So...you are just ignoring the 'they did it so they didn't insult X backers who pledged at that level and above' point? Or did you actually miss the posts on it, or do you think companies should run kickstarters, then kick whoever supported them in the nuts when it comes to early-release
Well I did look at the Kickstarter. For $65 backer, they get
Kickstarter-exclusive multiplayer solid GOLD WARJACK skins + access to the BETA TEST of WARMACHINE: TACTICS ============================== ALSO INCLUDES: ============================== The Game + Digital Game Manual + Forums Badge + Digital Strategy Guide + Alternate Company Skins + Extreme Warjacks + Digital Art Book + Commander Sturgis + mp3 Game Soundtrack
and at $85
1 Kickstarter-exclusive LIMITED-EDITION SCULPT with exclusive GOLD CARDS & COLLECTOR'S COIN of your choice + Kickstarter-exclusive multiplayer solid GOLD WARJACK skins + access to the BETA TEST of WARMACHINE: TACTICS ============================== ALSO INCLUDES: ============================== The Game + Digital Game Manual + Forums Badge + Digital Strategy Guide + Alternate Company Skins + Extreme Warjacks + Digital Art Book + Commander Sturgis + mp3 Game Soundtrack
Of course, no one expects them to price the Beta access value equal to backers who have staked their money and goodwill. Still, comparing what a $65 backer gets and what a Beta tester gets, I would say the difference if quite a bit. I'm sure the $65 the backer paid also goes to the final game, manual, strat guide, alternate skins etc.
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DS:70+S+G+M-B--IPw40k94-D+++A++/wWD380R+T(D)DM+
Avatar scene by artist Nicholas Kay. Give credit where it's due! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 05:30:55
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Oberstleutnant
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Planetary Annihilation did this quite a while ago, for the same reason mentioned above - it was first on Kickstarter and early access to the game cost more as a higher pledge level. That's a viable way of increasing funding for the project by offering the option to people willing to pay it. They gained nothing over others once the game is released. Anything prior to release is largely irrelevant, games are judged in their release state - which it will be sold at normal retail pricing. If there's DLC shenanigans going on that can be more complex to judge.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/11 05:32:15
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 05:47:35
Subject: Re:And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Stitch Counter
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Gaining vanity items to change the skin of things in game - While I don't think it's generally worth the additional price to encourage 'beta', I understand many people like it.
Gaining extra units in game though... so you pay for an advantage / greater tactical flexibility over those who get the released game. I think that's ridiculous.
What ever happened to games being a finished, completed product on release? Bring back the days of Age of Empires 2 and Dungeon Keeper where we didn't have any of this DLC/Special-unit-because-I-paid-for-it nonsense
EDIT: I just realised, that whole ''Special-unit-because-I-paid-for-it nonsense''...it's the same concept as the current Warhammer dataslates :O
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/11 05:50:06
Thousand Sons: 3850pts / Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / Black Death 1500pts
Saga: (Vikings, Normans, Anglo Danes, Irish, Scots, Late Romans, Huns and Anglo Saxons), Lion Rampant, Ronin: (Bushi x2, Sohei), Frostgrave: (Enchanter, Thaumaturge, Illusionist)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 06:13:48
Subject: Re:And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Oberstleutnant
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Horus Heresy era skins cost $35 in the new 40k MMO. $35 for a single weapon skin. It is an iconic skin, but 1. $35 is ridiculous - over half the price of this entire warmachine game and 2. iconic skins like that should be rewards for in game achievements, not out of game wealth. Cosmetics are fine to sell generally, but they can't be integral to the lore of the setting.
Wulfmar wrote:EDIT: I just realised, that whole ''Special-unit-because-I-paid-for-it nonsense''...it's the same concept as the current Warhammer dataslates :O
Yep we've been criticising that pretty heavily. GW is copying the DLC model exactly with that stuff, even down to Day one DLC with the looted wagon in white dwarf released at the same time as the Ork 'dex
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 07:09:48
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Plenty of keen videogamers will pay extra in some form or other to participate in closed beta testing programmes. Not only do they enjoy closer engagement with the game, they benefit the final release by helping iron out bugs and polish gameplay elements.
The difference with the GW model is that a videogame is a stand-alone product. You either buy it or you don't. If you don't buy it, nothing the rest of the players do can affect you.
In 40K, if only some high spending players have access to certain parts of the rules, it obviously biases the entire game for all participants.
I don't know that is a huge factor in the single game scenario, to be honest, because it is easy enough to say you don't play dataslates or something. Though that of course affects the experience of people who do use them.
The problem is dividing the player base farther and farther, when one of the key plus points of 40K is how widely player it is.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 10:07:29
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
Breslau
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Well, Kickstarter or not, the price is ridiculous, trying to 'justify' it is silly. It was -their- decision to put the beta access in this price bracket and if they didn't want anyone to whine they shouldn't put that option at such a high price. $65 is a new console game here while a new AAA title for PCs usually clocks at around 40$. They should be kissing the pledgers' hands for giving them money earlier, trusting them with it and giving them more stuff for less instead of asking for more money to test their game for them. Preposterous and more and more popular idea nowadays.
Then again we're talking about Privateer Press whose models cost a lot. They kinda got their customers used to those prices.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 10:37:09
Subject: Re:And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Repentia Mistress
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It's interesting if you look at the "value" of the Beta offer. I went back to look at the Kickstarter again.
The $55 pledge gives you
Advance multiplayer access to Cygnar & Cryx warcaster COMMANDER STURGIS + an mp3 game SOUNDTRACK. ============================== ALSO INCLUDES: ============================== The Game + Digital Game Manual + Forums Badge + Digital Strategy Guide + Alternate Company Skins + Extreme Warjacks + Digital Art Book
And again, the $65 pledge
Kickstarter-exclusive multiplayer solid GOLD WARJACK skins + access to the BETA TEST of WARMACHINE: TACTICS ============================== ALSO INCLUDES: ============================== The Game + Digital Game Manual + Forums Badge + Digital Strategy Guide + Alternate Company Skins + Extreme Warjacks + Digital Art Book + Commander Sturgis + mp3 Game Soundtrack
So approximately, $10 extra gives you a chance at Beta and Gold Warjack skins. For those who wish to join the Beta, I guess they can increase their pledge. But you must be a diehard fan to pay 6.5 times otherwise. Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: The price quoted gives the game too, when it is released in full. Is that right? At least that's what I gather from Steam. So it's not that bad. Automatically Appended Next Post: Unless you only want the Beta but not the full game.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/11 10:55:25
DS:70+S+G+M-B--IPw40k94-D+++A++/wWD380R+T(D)DM+
Avatar scene by artist Nicholas Kay. Give credit where it's due! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 10:56:20
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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It's very simple folks:
Don't buy unfinished games.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 11:12:01
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
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Red__Thirst wrote:Google Elite Dangerous Beta, read about it, then get back to me. For those without Google-fu enabled, $150.00 to get expanded beta access. You read that right. Or if you want regular beta access, it can be yours for the low low price of $75.00. Pure digital product, $75.00 or $150.00. No. Thank. You.
You need to realise that those are connected to the Kickstarter tiers, as well as the developer's intention of not wanting to have every random Joe Shmuck with only a passing interest in the game in the Alpha and Beta phases. The final game will cost $50 upon release.
It's also worth pointing out that the $150 Premium Beta includes a Lifetime Expansion Pass, which might actually end up saving you money if you like the game that much.
tl;dr: Charging more than full price at beta is kind of the point. "Insane pricing" would only apply if the cost would actually remain stagnant past release, or climb even higher. That would be GW-style.
H.B.M.C. wrote:It's very simple folks:
Don't buy unfinished games.
Unless of course you are very confident in the developer and/or simply want to support the game's creation.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 11:13:50
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
Inside Yvraine
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It's weird because this EXACT thread is literally right below this one.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 11:24:14
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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I don't buy anything in beta, or unfinished. It's ridiculous. I think giving them all this money up front takes away the incentive to finish, a lot of these games never come out of beta. This whole "beta testing release that you are paying for to test for us" is terrible and although I understand it can be helpful for smaller developers, it's being abused. Most companies seem to just be cutting corners.
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P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 12:01:48
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Back in my days, companies paid people to test their product, not the other way around.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 13:10:25
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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Unless you want to support the developer. I have kickstarted/bought around a dozen games and so far the only one released is Xenonauts. Some of the games will probably be pretty poor but that is always a risk and I don't mind funding the development of a game that I find interesting.
Planetary Annihilation cost £70 when it initially went on early access but I bought it for £10 during the summer sale and its not even been released yet. I fully expect something similar with this game. Automatically Appended Next Post: Sigvatr wrote:Back in my days, companies paid people to test their product, not the other way around.
This way the tester pool is significantly larger and it makes rather than costs money. Individual feedback is less useful but overall this is a better method, certainly for small studios.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/11 13:11:30
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 13:41:54
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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How is Xenonauts then?
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P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 16:07:35
Subject: And I thought GW had insane prices.
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[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide
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People love xenonauts. I haven't downloaded it yet.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 16:35:50
Subject: Re:And I thought GW had insane prices.
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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The reason its so expensive is threefold.
1) You're getting a bunch of stuff with it, including all the extra DLC at time of release(vanilla game with only 4 main factions will be around $20) and early access itself.
2) It limits the number of people playing what is going to be a buggy experience and possibly giving a negative impression and badmouthing the game before its finished.
3) It supports the games development.
I will say the steam page doesn't do a great job of explaining what you are getting with your $65. The purchase option should say something along the lines of "Deluxe Early Access Beta" instead of just the game itself.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/11 16:38:07
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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