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Hey there -

Recently returned again with my guard after messing around in the world of BFG. I got that feeling - just picked up the new codex. But I'm tired of foot slog guard (moving them is a bloody hassle) and I didnt really win that many games (not that winning is everything but... I am starting to get sassed down-at-club. Proposed below.

HQ

Tank Commander in either Punisher or Demolisher (looking for sponson guidance) 200/190
+LRBT (no sponsons) 150

Troops

Vets + 2x Melt + Chimera 145
Vets + 2x Melt + Chimera 145
Vets + 2x Melt + Chimera 145 (do I swap the 3rd to 2 or 3 x plasma/flamer?)

Heavy Support

LRBT (no sponsons) 150

This'll take me to the 935-950ish mark in points. So - fairly straight forward.

One additional question - do I fire as full bs on my assault weapons after my chimera does a 12'' flat out drive by? Cheers for any help.

Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

Take heavy flamers as your third special weapon in the vet squads. You can pop out and toast the enemy, fire from the hatch, even overwatch from inside the chimera with it. With a 6" move, 6" disembark move you can get the heavy flamer down 12" from where you started the turn.

Transport movement rules and shooting for passengers:
- stationary, count as stationary
- 6" or less, count as moved
- more than 6", snap shots only (hit on 6's, can't fire templates)

Thank you Sillycybin and Silo - command tank heavy bolters are a no-brainer respectively - the heavy flamer also seems like a fun/killery selection (maybe even on sqd 2 as well?).

It is most certainly the vogue to go with melta vets - though rapid firing plasma guns do seem attractive. Non-the-less with 2 LRBT to deal with MEQ I dont think needed. Your vehicle shooting advice well noted.

That leaves me with maybe an awkward 30ish pts to fill in...not really enough for anything... rattling snipers? demo team vets upgrade? (love melta bombing MC's)

Tactics: so basically aim at objectives with the chimera's behind ready to counter strike from a mechanised screen ooooooor just rush objective with chimeras while big tanks cover fire?

I am a new player also and I hope the OP will indulge me a related question.

Is it efficient to take more than 2 special weapons per vet squad? The Chimera has only two fire ports I thought? (Limiting spec. weapon fire from the transport to a max. of two weapons per turn while embarked).

Hi Brendan,

The tightest mech loadouts aim towards 2 special weapons yes for the reason you mention. Adding a cheeky 3rd flamer in there is often a nice plan however as its so cheap - in an offload against many kinds of light infantry and/or 'in cover' defenders you can without too much effort wipe out 5-6 models confidently. Also its a sweet d3 auto hit overwatch protector (you can also use this if a squad assaults you tank with krak grenades or what have you).

If you want 3 special weapons though I dont think its a sin to include them - I mean its all so points cheap anyway you'll often earn points back post load-out shooting.

Perhaps consider dropping the LRBT as a command tank buddy and take an alternative, cheaper variant as your tank commander has a short ranged main gun. Would perhaps go for a pair of exterminators for command, as you wont really miss the 1" scatter from the change in BS. But then that could just be my ongoing love affair with autocannons talking.

I have and am considering this. My gut reaction is that a LRBT will deliver stronger vehicle killing ability and MEQ removal for the points - I will mostly be split firing them with orders.

The punisher is a short range tank and I am aware that by taking it I may well be missing a turn of shooting. I have never used one before.

I feel you on the autocannons - my previous list had a team in every squad - they deliver cheeky penetrating hits more than you think.

Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

 WallofMeat wrote:
I have and am considering this. My gut reaction is that a LRBT will deliver stronger vehicle killing ability and MEQ removal for the points - I will mostly be split firing them with orders.

The punisher is a short range tank and I am aware that by taking it I may well be missing a turn of shooting. I have never used one before.

I feel you on the autocannons - my previous list had a team in every squad - they deliver cheeky penetrating hits more than you think.

The punisher will do all the MEQ and vehicle killing you will need. I'd take Pask with the Punisher (adding Tank Hunter, Preferred Enemy and Rending to your 20 shots is amazing...especially at killing vehicles). Dropping the LRBT to an Exterminator would help free up some points.... The LRBT is way overcosted for what you are getting. One hit at St 8 Ap 3 will not destroy armor and can only do so much to spread out MEQ. Even the Eradicator is more useful as it ignores cover and the shift from Ap 3 - 4 is not as significant as saving 30 points to put somewhere else.

sgt_bwalk wrote:

 WallofMeat wrote:
I have and am considering this. My gut reaction is that a LRBT will deliver stronger vehicle killing ability and MEQ removal for the points - I will mostly be split firing them with orders.

The punisher is a short range tank and I am aware that by taking it I may well be missing a turn of shooting. I have never used one before.

I feel you on the autocannons - my previous list had a team in every squad - they deliver cheeky penetrating hits more than you think.

The punisher will do all the MEQ and vehicle killing you will need. I'd take Pask with the Punisher (adding Tank Hunter, Preferred Enemy and Rending to your 20 shots is amazing...especially at killing vehicles). Dropping the LRBT to an Exterminator would help free up some points.... The LRBT is way overcosted for what you are getting. One hit at St 8 Ap 3 will not destroy armor and can only do so much to spread out MEQ. Even the Eradicator is more useful as it ignores cover and the shift from Ap 3 - 4 is not as significant as saving 30 points to put somewhere else.

Pask doesn't have tank-hunter. Also, looking at the preferred enemy wording, it only says "re-roll to wound rolls of 1" it doesn't specify armor penetration, unless I'm missing something.

 TheSilo wrote:

sgt_bwalk wrote:

 WallofMeat wrote:
I have and am considering this. My gut reaction is that a LRBT will deliver stronger vehicle killing ability and MEQ removal for the points - I will mostly be split firing them with orders.

The punisher is a short range tank and I am aware that by taking it I may well be missing a turn of shooting. I have never used one before.

I feel you on the autocannons - my previous list had a team in every squad - they deliver cheeky penetrating hits more than you think.

The punisher will do all the MEQ and vehicle killing you will need. I'd take Pask with the Punisher (adding Tank Hunter, Preferred Enemy and Rending to your 20 shots is amazing...especially at killing vehicles). Dropping the LRBT to an Exterminator would help free up some points.... The LRBT is way overcosted for what you are getting. One hit at St 8 Ap 3 will not destroy armor and can only do so much to spread out MEQ. Even the Eradicator is more useful as it ignores cover and the shift from Ap 3 - 4 is not as significant as saving 30 points to put somewhere else.

Pask doesn't have tank-hunter. Also, looking at the preferred enemy wording, it only says "re-roll to wound rolls of 1" it doesn't specify armor penetration, unless I'm missing something.

pg 59 under his Crack Shot ability, "shots made by Pask's Leman Russ can re-roll armor penetration rolls against vehicles, including glancing or penetrating hits...." Its essentially the same wording as Tank Hunter, which is why I said he had that ability. Preferred Enemy is useful for getting more hits on vehicles.

Now when you're firing against non-vehicles, then the re-roll of 1's also applies in the to wound phase.

Punpask does have 'crack shot' though (re-roll any of your ap dice) n' Old Grudges (Proffered Enemy) lets you pick up you 1's ta hit.

Pask in a Punisher with Multimeltas and a Lascannon is the best HQ in the game. Take him. The Executioner is the best choice to support him. He has PE which not only gives the Executioner rerolls on all those gets hot rolls but also on scatter effectively twin linking it and at S7 practically giving rerolls to wound as it mostly wounds on 2+.

Tauroxes are generally better than Chimeras as they are cheaper and you can throw them into terrain easier getting cover saves and grabbing objectives better. They also have 4 fire points so you can get all 3 special weapons pointing out of them.

With Russes they all came down in points except the LRBT and the Demolisher. The sponsons also got cheaper which those 2 variants can't use effectively due to Ordnance rules. All that makes those 2 variants the worst around in the new codex. Taking the HQ above you already have the best tank hunter and heavy infantry killers. So you need to kill light to medium mech and hordes with your last Russes. That means Punisher with all heavy bolters, Eradicator or Exterminator with lascannon and possibly heavy bolters.

Also look at Wyverns they are the best unit in the game right now.

Something like this perhaps:

Pask: Punisher MMs, LC 425
Executioner: PCs

Veterans: 2 meltas, Taurox camo netting 145
Veterans: 2 meltas, Taurox camo netting 145
Veterans: 2 flamers, heavy flamer, Taurox camo netting 145

Exterminator: LC 140

Or


Pask: Punisher MMs, LC 425
Executioner: PCs

Veterans: 2 meltas, Taurox 130
Veterans: 2 meltas, Taurox 130
Veterans: Autocannon, Taurox 120

3 Wyverns 195

Those 3 Wyverns delete a unit a turn. Don't care whether its a horde of 30 boys, 10 MEQs or 5 TEQs if it has a toughness it is dead.

sgt_bwalk wrote:

 WallofMeat wrote:
I have and am considering this. My gut reaction is that a LRBT will deliver stronger vehicle killing ability and MEQ removal for the points - I will mostly be split firing them with orders.

The punisher is a short range tank and I am aware that by taking it I may well be missing a turn of shooting. I have never used one before.

I feel you on the autocannons - my previous list had a team in every squad - they deliver cheeky penetrating hits more than you think.

The punisher will do all the MEQ and vehicle killing you will need. I'd take Pask with the Punisher (adding Tank Hunter, Preferred Enemy and Rending to your 20 shots is amazing...especially at killing vehicles). Dropping the LRBT to an Exterminator would help free up some points.... The LRBT is way overcosted for what you are getting. One hit at St 8 Ap 3 will not destroy armor and can only do so much to spread out MEQ. Even the Eradicator is more useful as it ignores cover and the shift from Ap 3 - 4 is not as significant as saving 30 points to put somewhere else.

God the last post was a bit delayed - anyway I have thought about what you have said and you know what sir - I just think you are right. When I'm getting my weekly game on I often feel like I've got this big battle cannon erection and only ever manage to stick it 2 inches in. Like you drop the big plate on a squad and then you scatter 3 inches and then they start taking 4+ saves after you've dropped a wound dice and you only kill 3 infantry. The lack of AP 3 is a minor concern - but with the 30 point drop I think there is some list optimisation hiding here. Trimming battle cannons as I type.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FlingitNow wrote:
Pask in a Punisher with Multimeltas and a Lascannon is the best HQ in the game. Take him. The Executioner is the best choice to support him. He has PE which not only gives the Executioner rerolls on all those gets hot rolls but also on scatter effectively twin linking it and at S7 practically giving rerolls to wound as it mostly wounds on 2+.

Tauroxes are generally better than Chimeras as they are cheaper and you can throw them into terrain easier getting cover saves and grabbing objectives better. They also have 4 fire points so you can get all 3 special weapons pointing out of them.

With Russes they all came down in points except the LRBT and the Demolisher. The sponsons also got cheaper which those 2 variants can't use effectively due to Ordnance rules. All that makes those 2 variants the worst around in the new codex. Taking the HQ above you already have the best tank hunter and heavy infantry killers. So you need to kill light to medium mech and hordes with your last Russes. That means Punisher with all heavy bolters, Eradicator or Exterminator with lascannon and possibly heavy bolters.

Also look at Wyverns they are the best unit in the game right now.

Something like this perhaps:

Pask: Punisher MMs, LC 425
Executioner: PCs

Veterans: 2 meltas, Taurox camo netting 145
Veterans: 2 meltas, Taurox camo netting 145
Veterans: 2 flamers, heavy flamer, Taurox camo netting 145

Exterminator: LC 140

Or


Pask: Punisher MMs, LC 425
Executioner: PCs

Veterans: 2 meltas, Taurox 130
Veterans: 2 meltas, Taurox 130
Veterans: Autocannon, Taurox 120

3 Wyverns 195

Those 3 Wyverns delete a unit a turn. Don't care whether its a horde of 30 boys, 10 MEQs or 5 TEQs if it has a toughness it is dead.

I will respectfully leave the Tauroxes I think as I think their weapons load out and armour does not compensate for the above mentioned advantages (also I think the model is meh). Additionally, apart from anything else (I mean strength 4) Wyverns cost money - I could literally pay a person to fellate me for the cost of that Wyvern battery.

 will respectfully leave the Tauroxes I think as I think their weapons load out and armour does not compensate for the above mentioned advantages (also I think the model is meh). Additionally, apart from anything else (I mean strength 4) Wyverns cost money - I could literally pay a person to fellate me for the cost of that Wyvern battery.

If you're going forward to grab objectives (as you have to turn 1 in 7th) then people are going to get side armour shots at you where the Taurox is going to be superior due to increased chance (and with camo netting better) cover. Also a twin linked autocannon is a great weapon better than ML and Heavy Bolter. It does a better job at AA and is better at dealing with light to medium mech.

If you don't want to spend on Wyverns that's fine hence why I wrote a list without them. But why do you think S4 is a downside? They are point for point the best AI unit in the game. They put out 4 twinlinked blasts each. So eith rerolls hit 3~4 with each blast is very possible if you tank shock people into bunching up you can hit more. Lets say you average 3.5 hits per blast. Remembering you can do this from 48" away and not requiring line of sight and add in against ruins the blast now hits every level this estimate is relatively conservative. 3.5 x 12 is 42 hits from those 195 points. Against T4 you wound on 4+ with shred thats 31.5 wounding hits Ap6 ignoring cover.

So if that was a mob of 30 Ork boyz with Nob (around 220 points) they are all dead!

Squad of 10 marines (fully equipped somewhere between 180~200 points) 30 means 10 failed saves, so you slightly overkill the entire squad.

Squad of 5 Terminators (starts at 200 points can be upto 250ish with weapons and other upgrades particularly if DA or GK) well 30 wounds with a 2+ save means oh yes the entire squad is dead as again you kill on average just over 5.

Name me another unit anywhere in the game that on average will kill its points worth (if not more) a turn on average from 48" away. Heck even Missilesides don't have that kind of damage output (though Missilesides can also ruin light to medium mech). When I (and pretty much the entire tournament going community) say that Wyverns are one of if not the best units in the entire game there is a reason for it.

 FlingitNow wrote:

 will respectfully leave the Tauroxes I think as I think their weapons load out and armour does not compensate for the above mentioned advantages (also I think the model is meh). Additionally, apart from anything else (I mean strength 4) Wyverns cost money - I could literally pay a person to fellate me for the cost of that Wyvern battery.

If you're going forward to grab objectives (as you have to turn 1 in 7th) then people are going to get side armour shots at you where the Taurox is going to be superior due to increased chance (and with camo netting better) cover. Also a twin linked autocannon is a great weapon better than ML and Heavy Bolter. It does a better job at AA and is better at dealing with light to medium mech.

If you don't want to spend on Wyverns that's fine hence why I wrote a list without them. But why do you think S4 is a downside? They are point for point the best AI unit in the game. They put out 4 twinlinked blasts each. So eith rerolls hit 3~4 with each blast is very possible if you tank shock people into bunching up you can hit more. Lets say you average 3.5 hits per blast. Remembering you can do this from 48" away and not requiring line of sight and add in against ruins the blast now hits every level this estimate is relatively conservative. 3.5 x 12 is 42 hits from those 195 points. Against T4 you wound on 4+ with shred thats 31.5 wounding hits Ap6 ignoring cover.

So if that was a mob of 30 Ork boyz with Nob (around 220 points) they are all dead!

Squad of 10 marines (fully equipped somewhere between 180~200 points) 30 means 10 failed saves, so you slightly overkill the entire squad.

Squad of 5 Terminators (starts at 200 points can be upto 250ish with weapons and other upgrades particularly if DA or GK) well 30 wounds with a 2+ save means oh yes the entire squad is dead as again you kill on average just over 5.

Name me another unit anywhere in the game that on average will kill its points worth (if not more) a turn on average from 48" away. Heck even Missilesides don't have that kind of damage output (though Missilesides can also ruin light to medium mech). When I (and pretty much the entire tournament going community) say that Wyverns are one of if not the best units in the entire game there is a reason for it.

Hmm - well I think I might by sold on the Wyvern but for me the Taurox is still... well maybe... I dont know. You are right that the additional fire point and cover potential - a twin linked AC is also a strong weapon. TBH the money is a main issue for me and I expect I could 1st row 2nd row my tank push that side armour of the transports will be mostly protected. Maybe I need to think about swapping out the ML for twin linked HB but I'll worry about that later.

End of the day for the level im playing at the difference here is probably less than massive.

The Wyvern on closer inspection is much better than i believed - your maths hammer is certainly compelling - and the points cost! - is there a way I can make this happen with ebayed chimera chasis and some alta turret like this maybe - http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=318 ?

On a side note I am modelling my revamped army with little red berret's while mixing in a few kilts and woman as well.

Don't get me wrong the Chimera is still good and has some advantages (can tank shock) just the Taurox is a bit better. If you already have the Chimeras then sure stick with them (unless you're planning on top tier tournament play) if you're buying from scratch I'd suggest the Taurox offers just that little more.

Wyverns are stupid good, it is literally dumb that they even thought them up. Shred and twinlinked is always a very strong combo to give both to a unit as standard was a mistake. In effect you feel like you just keep rolling till you get the result you want. For 65 points or 195 for 3 is just ludicrous. The fact that point for point they kill more Terminators than the old medusa is just silly.

Im a little confused, why would you take a Punisher as your anti tank?
I assume you confused the name with Vanquisher, the proper anti tank variant?
I mean, how do you want to pen a land raider/russ with a S5.. ? At best you can glance it to death with -very- lucky rending hits but.. that seems way less likely than a good pen+explode with the vanq. Or is there something im missing?

SO Vanq = hitting a 5 out of 6 times and penning 2/3 of those - then a third'ish of the remainder is a pen/destroying the important weapon + 1 HP.

But Pun = straight 2.3 glances.

Look my maths is gaking because I dont have my rulebook with me / f**k numbers. But the Pun delivers I think a comparable result here (ignoring range) while at the same time offering you infantry killing fun as well.

At 24" range Pask averages 3.5 HPs against AV14 with a Punisher. At 12" that'll go to 4.5 HPs. The Vanquisher is not great on him anymore as it is 1 shot that if hits and pens needs a 6 to explode. The Punisher meanwhile is providing over 2 HPs a turn to AV14 and against AV13 or less there's no point in even rolling the dice.

So How About

HQ

Knight Commander P on a Punisher with 3 HB 230
+ Eradicator Friend 120

Troops

Vets + 2 Melta + Chimera 145
Vets + 2 Melta + Chimera 145
Vets + 2 Melta + Chimera + flamer 150

Heavy

Eradicator 120
Wyvy 65

= 975

It is a little sad that the Taurox is so ugly... (IMO).

Give Pask MMs and a LC it'll help him much more. That still leaves enough points to up an Eradicator to an Exterminator as you'll have enough AI between Pask the twin linked Eradicator and the Wyvern.

The Taurox actually looks sought of spivvy with wheels on it.

I will probs go MM but not lacannon - I will also be painting my other tanks bright gold to try and distract fire away from it.