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 TheKbob wrote:
Hey, great, calling GW out on their marketing is now insulting. Hooray? Thanks for being realistic.

And for every "Murderfang" they make, that's one less box of Wulven or a new Ragnar model we could get. Both are something which many wolves players have wanted.

Okay, let's make this real clear for the players at home:

Not insulting: "I do not like the Murderfang model. I think the exposed head is unrealistic and there are enough dreads already. They could have spent the time and energy making new plastic wulfen."

Insulting: "The murderfang model is made so only the lowest common denominator will enjoy it. Oh you like it? Funny coincidence. Also, I'm totally not calling you a poo head or saying you only find worth in plastic toys. Because that would be insulting and I don't want to do that."

Passively insulting people is still insulting them.

Lastly, although you wanted Wulfen and Ragnar more than a new vendread or a flyer, who are you to speak for 'what many wolf players want'?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Also, if the exposed head bothers you -- and it does me -- look! It's REALLY easy to cut off. You don't even need to be an Ork wiv a choppa, swarming up those legs to save his comrades, even if he might die in the 'splosion. You could do it with a modelling knife. At worst you might cut your thumb a bit. It'll be OK.

This! If I field murderfang, it'll probably just be with an arm swam on the included ven dread torso (with the cool skull trophy bit).

 pretre wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
Hey, great, calling GW out on their marketing is now insulting. Hooray? Thanks for being realistic.

And for every "Murderfang" they make, that's one less box of Wulven or a new Ragnar model we could get. Both are something which many wolves players have wanted.

Okay, let's make this real clear for the players at home:

Not insulting: "I do not like the Murderfang model. I think the exposed head is unrealistic and there are enough dreads already. They could have spent the time and energy making new plastic wulfen."

Insulting: "The murderfang model is made so only the lowest common denominator will enjoy it. Oh you like it? Funny coincidence. Also, I'm totally not calling you a poo head or saying you only find worth in plastic toys. Because that would be insulting and I don't want to do that."

Passively insulting people is still insulting them.

Lastly, although you wanted Wulfen and Ragnar more than a new vendread or a flyer, who are you to speak for 'what many wolf players want'?

As being a wolf player and knowing many, the general consensus was "why aren't we given a flyer?" and "where's our character updates and wulfen models?" Since the latter existed but was stopped and are ridiculously expensive in the aftermarket, it seems like a major missed opportunity given there's a demand. And the rules leaks so far would say these dreads are terrible. We already know Bjorn is overcosted nonsense and you can only guess that any dread with an invulnerable save is going UP in points cost. Given that it will still be Av12, it will die like most dreads do: saturation of S7 glancing fire power. Now it will be an even bigger hit. I do like the sword and board model to some extent, but I'd modify to make it a bit more "realistic" in it's ability to fight.

And I am not insulting anyone, again. The Wolverine model is totally a lowest common denominator placation and if you find it insulting, then you are, again, self projecting through a toy. I like lowest common denominator stuff, too. Does it make me any less intelligent or less of a person? No. Spade a spade. I would say grow thicker skin if something like that insults you, more so when the person has said multiple time, with dictionary reference and apt analogies of how companies goal is to market to the LCD, that goal is not to offend. It's like folks today take facts personally when it goes against their beliefs.

Unless I missed a post somewhere, do we actually know what AV the new dreads are? I see no reason why the named dreads couldn't have a higher AV than 12. Just because Bjorn in the past topped out at 12, there is a chance that the new one might be different. And a named dread... well the sky is the limit on this guy.

With luck GW will have realized that dreads were over priced to start with and will price them down accordingly. Also realizing that while a stormshield will protect against 2/3 of the hits, they can still be one shotted to death with the right weapons and will never have the staying power of a MC.

And while I disagree that Murderfang and his weapons and abilities are being marketed towards the lowest common denominator, I do think that it is being marketed towards GWs chosen target audience. 12-14 year old boys. Its obvious that GW cares nothing for the veteran gamers or people who actually enjoy a heavier thought process when it comes to cleaver titles and naming conventions.

 Jayden63 wrote:
Unless I missed a post somewhere, do we actually know what AV the new dreads are? I see no reason why the named dreads couldn't have a higher AV than 12. Just because Bjorn in the past topped out at 12, there is a chance that the new one might be different. And a named dread... well the sky is the limit on this guy.

With luck GW will have realized that dreads were over priced to start with and will price them down accordingly. Also realizing that while a stormshield will protect against 2/3 of the hits, they can still be one shotted to death with the right weapons and will never have the staying power of a MC.

And while I disagree that Murderfang and his weapons and abilities are being marketed towards the lowest common denominator, I do think that it is being marketed towards GWs chosen target audience. 12-14 year old boys. Its obvious that GW cares nothing for the veteran gamers or people who actually enjoy a heavier thought process when it comes to cleaver titles and naming conventions.

From a money making aspect, why should they? Its obvious the veteran players, and any players who are savvy enough to have reached out to the community who promotes not buying GW alone, making your own things Kitbashing and such?

If a 12 year old runs by a shop sees something called "Murderfang" or sees a big Space Wolf poster they aren't going to think twice. Where as a vet of the game with grimace and shake his/her head and wait a few weeks to buy it it they buy it at all.

Oh look, another goddamn plastic Space Marine Dreadnought kit. I guess Normal Dreadnought, Starter Dreadnought, Siege Dreadnought, Old Dreadnought, Blood Dreadnought, Evil Dreadnought and Evil Starter Dreadnought weren't enough damn Dreadnoughts, so they devoted some more of their mould-cutting budget to add Old Wolf Dreadnought to their lineup.

 pretre wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
Hey, great, calling GW out on their marketing is now insulting. Hooray? Thanks for being realistic.

And for every "Murderfang" they make, that's one less box of Wulven or a new Ragnar model we could get. Both are something which many wolves players have wanted.

Okay, let's make this real clear for the players at home:

Not insulting: "I do not like the Murderfang model. I think the exposed head is unrealistic and there are enough dreads already. They could have spent the time and energy making new plastic wulfen."

Insulting: "The murderfang model is made so only the lowest common denominator will enjoy it. Oh you like it? Funny coincidence. Also, I'm totally not calling you a poo head or saying you only find worth in plastic toys. Because that would be insulting and I don't want to do that."

Passively insulting people is still insulting them.

No one cares. Any negative opinion you give on something that has a fandom is passively insulting to the fandom.

"I don't like the Eldar codex. It's too powerful and it takes little skill to win with it."

The implication is that Eldar players don't win their matches with superior skill.

Oh well.

 insaniak wrote:
So... Murderfang looks ok. I do like the blinged-up look for Space Wolf dreads.

Bjorn is still rocking.

The axe-dread looks ridiculous. The storm shield is awesome, but dreads holding oversized weapons in their fists just looks wrong. It can work on the Contemptor chassis, but on regular dreads they just look awkward. Would much rather have seen the axe built into the elbow joint, replacing the hand.

I share the same sentiments

Why does a dreadnought need an axe anyway? The year 999 of the 41st millennium sure is an innovative year.. with all these space marine chapters coming up with new vehicles all the sudden! It's not like the same forgeworlds make all the SM stuff or anything, I wonder which FW develops "dreadnoughts with exposed heads" ?

Is it just me who thinks that the murderfang claws are way cooler than Bjorns claw? Bjorns claw looks stiff, he can probably rotate it though (if you imagine he was real) which would look cool, but otherwise it seems murderfangs claws would be superior in real battle.

The look of the claws is fine, but the name, the lore, and the dislocated head poking out are all just unrelentingly stupid. Murderfang with Murderclaws with Murderlust.

I like the idea of a Dreadnought with a storm shield, although the model leaves something to be desired. Still, I'm guessing the next Codex: Space Marines will feature Dreadnoughts with storm shields. Then the following Chaos release will bring Dreadnoughts with storm shields that only work in close combat, and can only be taken in conjunction with an Ordnance weapon.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
No one cares. Any negative opinion you give on something that has a fandom is passively insulting to the fandom.

That's not actually true. Presentation counts for a lot.

As an example:

"I don't like the Eldar codex. It's too powerful and it takes little skill to win with it."

As is, yes, this statement is insulting to anyone who plays Eldar.

Leave off the part from 'and' onwards, and it's just a personal opinion.


Or, to put it another way, fewer people will act is if they have been insulted if you don't insult them.

 insaniak wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
No one cares. Any negative opinion you give on something that has a fandom is passively insulting to the fandom.

That's not actually true. Presentation counts for a lot.

As an example:

"I don't like the Eldar codex. It's too powerful and it takes little skill to win with it."

As is, yes, this statement is insulting to anyone who plays Eldar.

Leave off the part from 'and' onwards, and it's just a personal opinion.


Or, to put it another way, fewer people will act is if they have been insulted if you don't insult them.

But something could be too powerful only in the hands of someone skilled who can use the force to its maximum, it's important to make the distinction

For everyone saying Bjorn is AV 12, He is 13/12/10. If that changes anything

DOOMONYOU wrote:
For everyone saying Bjorn is AV 12, He is 13/12/10. If that changes anything

Completely forgot about that but he's only Init 3 but regular dreadnought and Ven Dread are Init 4? Guess it takes the old boy a minute to get his head sorted.

I'd say the new models are a bit too 80's Hasbro for me. I guess I need to pick up Bolt Action, then

 Kirasu wrote:
Why does a dreadnought need an axe anyway? The year 999 of the 41st millennium sure is an innovative year.. with all these space marine chapters coming up with new vehicles all the sudden! It's not like the same forgeworlds make all the SM stuff or anything, I wonder which FW develops "dreadnoughts with exposed heads" ?

The cheapest one, obviously

DOOMONYOU wrote:
For everyone saying Bjorn is AV 12, He is 13/12/10. If that changes anything

Yeah he just needs more Hull points.

The Shield dread is the big question to me. What does it do? If it is indeed a 3++(I just don't see it being that good), then it will take on average almost 45 S7 BS4 shots to strip 3 HP from it at Armor 12. Now that's a dreadnought.






From Mexican Ork

Oof that would be scary.
I'm going to need more gauss.

Hes got more Hullpoints that Sammael on speeder...

Curseborn prophecy, really?
That sounds silly to me.

Murderfang in a stormraven. #battlebrothers

I want Murderfang, I really really do but I know he'll get picked apart in seconds once he steps out of that drop pod.

I find the idea of his strength being lower than a marine sergeant with a power fist to be kinda sad. Granted, he has the Shred thing going for him, but you'd think with DCCW/Power Fists under those claws that he'd do better than S7.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
I want Murderfang, I really really do but I know he'll get picked apart in seconds once he steps out of that drop pod.

That is why you do not Pod him in Solo, add two Venerable Dreadnaughts or some Wolf Guard with Storm Shields.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Curseborn prophecy, really?
That sounds silly to me.

The whole fluff sounds silly. Curseborn prophecy... the fact the Space Wolves forgot the dude's name... the fact they "unleash" it then have to freeze it and put it away. Sounds like bad fan fiction.

But still, a Dread with 8 to 10 attacks on the charge is pretty crazy. Shame it'll never reach combat because it'll be blown away long before then.

AV12 on the front means I think he will still gets krak-grenaded to death a lot.

 Bulldogging wrote:

From Mexican Ork

"it will claw, and stamp and bite..."

"and bite"

How.

 Gitkikka wrote:
"it will claw, and stamp and bite..."

"and bite"

How.

Oh yeah, I saw that bit as well

Curseborn Prophecy
They forgot his name
He apparently "bites" the enemy
The Space Wolves have to freeze him after each battle and thaw him out for the next one

 Gitkikka wrote:


"it will claw, and stamp and bite..."

"and bite"

How.

I'm guessing that would be... with his MurderTeeth

You'd think that some crafty techpriest would have figured out a way to put a remote-controlled off-button in the machine, though, so they wouldn't have to gun him down every time.

There's pretty much one thing to explain all the bad fluff and poor design decisions at GW: the designers seem to have a tight 'new products' schedule to keep, which results in grabbing any first thing that comes to their mind and pushing it forward to production. Seems to be very little time to develop a tight concept before starting the sculpts.

WAAAAAAAARD!

Seriously though... I don't see how any SW army doesn't take that in a pod in every list. It's ludicrously good for its points cost.

Even if it's a one-turn fire magnet who cares? It's cheap enough to keep the heat off drop podding grey hunters on turn one and still a pretty tough nut to crack with it will not die.

Ugh... this codex scares me.