Space Wolves coming up :new pics UPDATED 8/6 TONS of New Codex pics and translations added to OP!

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**pretre**

Jayden63 wrote:
As someone who has stopped playing the game due to supreme dislike of the core rules, how good something is on the tabletop is much less of a concern as opposed to unit composition, wargear, special rules that reflect fluff etc. What does my SW army look like now. Overall I'm going to have to go with not too shabby. Ill miss my MOTW, but it doesn't invalidate the model that I used to represent him. I love the new detail on the dread kit and having our own dedicated flier is ace.

Wait. If you stopped playing the game, what does it matter what the rules are. You're just a collector now, right? So keep your MOTW in your squad.

**Stonerhino**

pretre wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
Really hanging on Lone Wolves here. Won't lie, losing MoW, normal standards and several other defining traits (sagas, logans high king, behind enemy lines) hurts, but I was expecting a fair amount of damage. Grey hunters went up to load out for combat, but honestly nobody assaults my vanilla marines anymore. Shooting is basically the only way to play competitively anyway. So really they make super cheap drop troops still.

It's funny because most of what you're talking about came from the last codex and it's really a defining SW trait. Having played SW since the beginning of 3rd, we've gone through a lot of iterations and this is looking to be just another one of those.

Not really. If you came in during 3rd then you started with a codex that was a vicious backlash form the 2nd ed SW codex. While many of the rules where new to the Wolves it was rules to bring back the character of the Chapter. In that before 3rd the Wolves were a shooting army that no one... No one really wanted to get close to. Because they could lay down about the same short range fire power as normal Marines but were hands down better in melee. The trade off was a lack of long range shooting. Mostly made up of Long Fangs (who had +1 BS over Devastaters btw).

The 5th ed codex brought back that same character but truely needed some adjusting. With reguards to GHs I feel they swung it a little to far towards the 3rd rd Codex with its 17 ppm GHs who had to buy bolters for +1 ppm. A better fix would have been for GHs to lose WotW, wolf standards and bring their weapon costs in line with SMs. That way they stay roughly equal to tacticals with reguards to CQB shooting but are still a threat to assult squads in melee. While not providing long range fire support.

If you balance GH with Tactical squad and then give the tacticals more support options, long range options and better counter assult units (Skyclaw vs Assult squads). Then are you not just creating SMs -1 by design??? slightly under priced basic troops provides the Wolves with an army balance that matches the other SM's extra options.

Am I mad??? Not really. It is just a difference in design philosophy. I feel that the core of the SW army should be its GHs and not the extra toys. Where as the current rumors look to be less GHs and more toys. I'm sure the next codex will change back to under priced GH as has been the pattern.

**pretre**

Stonerhino wrote:
It's funny because most of what you're talking about came from the last codex and it's really a defining SW trait. Having played SW since the beginning of 3rd, we've gone through a lot of iterations and this is looking to be just another one of those.

Not really. If you came in during 3rd then you started with a codex that was a vicious backlash form the 2nd ed SW codex. While many of the rules where new to the Wolves it was rules to bring back the character of the Chapter. In that before 3rd the Wolves were a shooting army that no one... No one really wanted to get close to. Because they could lay down about the same short range fire power as normal Marines but were hands down better in melee. The trade off was a lack of long range shooting. Mostly made up of Long Fangs (who had +1 BS over Devastaters btw).

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

The rules for this codex look good. Too bad the core rules of 7e are broken as hell.

I'll just what for 8e that I have a feeling is coming next year considering GW's current financial situation...

**Uriels_Flame**

TheKbob wrote:
Sorry, I thought Greys were 15ppm.
They still are lack luster boring marines. I laughed out loud at 2 rules for 2 rules, bro type statement. Yea Combat Squad and Scout, FNP, or Bolter Drill vs Counter Attack and Acute Senses. Amazing versus nearly worthless.

you ever try to use unbound as an argument, you're falling for GW marketing schlock. Tournaments don't use it and you lose objective secured, which is scoring now. And formations? Great, please tell me more of what used to be an option the book. Just increase the material bloat and cost to play more. That's not hurting them in the least (points to financial thread...).

Instant death is terrible. But if people aren't taking 50 pt multi-wpund models because of it, why take 200+ point models like the bear lord? You don't because it's a gateway to "having a bad time". Before, a bear lord could fight a dreadknight or wraithknight. Now he can't unless you want to gamble your snowflake. Its just making assault worse, not better.

This book feels like the "vanilla" release of wolves, much like all the releases this year. People complained that a balanced game would make it more vanilla. Rather, its sales tactics that are, minus the balance.

Careful, now. You'll get put on folks ignore list bringing things like this up.

Though I do have to say I like 7th better than 6th - except assaulting. That needs some work.

**Fayric**

To me, my SW had got caught in a huge "must take" part of the armybuilding.
I know lots of people like to build an optimized list and play it over and over.
But personally, I really enjoy doing different lists and trying out a multitude of units.
This release make me not autoinclude rune priests and other pricey stuff. It also give me some new vehicles and stuff to try out.
In fact, I have to reevaluate lots of units, and redefining them in new fun ways to battle.
I guess Im the ideal GW customer, I like to get basicly all unit entries to try out once in a while;
but I think lots of the animosity between posters here are based on those different play styles: static lists and dynamic lists.

**Justyn**

Spoiler:

Red Corsair wrote:

pretre wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:
Really hanging on Lone Wolves here. Won't lie, losing MoW, normal standards and several other defining traits (sagas, logans high king, behind enemy lines) hurts, but I was expecting a fair amount of damage. Grey hunters went up to load out for combat, but honestly nobody assaults my vanilla marines anymore. Shooting is basically the only way to play competitively anyway. So really they make super cheap drop troops still.

It's funny because most of what you're talking about came from the last codex and it's really a defining SW trait. Having played SW since the beginning of 3rd, we've gone through a lot of iterations and this is looking to be just another one of those.

I've played since them since 2nd, the third edition codex was a pamphlet. The first real substantial codex we have had since they changed the mechanics of 40k was the 5th ed codex. So to me, this is how they decided to define wolves. I am well aware they can retcon and change what they like, but a lot of the flavor is being lost here. Banners and MoW weren't just mechanics in game, they allowed for great modelling and themed armies. Now GH are much closer to tacs.

As I said, I don't think it's nearly as bad as some. Luckily we have the option for BP,BG CCW for example but I am nervous about what they may have done to lone wolves and Cav.

Playing them since Rouge Trader.
I loved 2nd
>10 Man Teleporting Terminators Packs with Assault Cannons and Cyclones for all.
>Long Fangs with a mix of Las-Cannons and Auto-Cannons
>Leman Russ Tanks.
The good old days.
3rd
>They removed Bjorn
>They removed Teleporting
> Removed Russ's
>Mandatory HQ per 750 Points
5th
>We got back Bjorn, but without his lighting Claw
>Gained Saga's
>x2 the Number of HQs

Now
>Bjorn Got back his Lighting Claw
>2-6 HQs
>Got Teleport Back

Minor Detail there, they added the ability to use Leman Russ tanks in 3rd edition.

**Anpu42**

Stonerhino wrote:
I feel that the core of the SW army should be its GHs and not the extra toys. Where as the current rumors look to be less GHs and more toys. I'm sure the next codex will change back to under priced GH as has been the pattern.

I don't see that at all, at least for me, my Core has always been Grey Hunters since 3rd and always will. Now I will be fielding more Blood Claws, now that I can afford to.
I will not be dropping Grey Hunters to take the new toys unless there is fluff about it.
Now my Core is 2 Grey Hunter Packs and I usually added 2 more Grey Hunter Pack, it will be Blood Claws now that they are more affordable.
The main changes will be for me replacing my Rifleman Dread for Bjorn [2nd HQ], or one of Ice Dreads.
I might also be using pods more to get my dreads closer quicker.

**RedFox**

Anpu42 wrote:
RedFox wrote:
I've got 2 questions for you guys, first which dreadnough (excluding Bjorn) can take the hellfrost cannon and what's the cost ?

second question: who's that guy in the picture, why does he have a white armour !? because that's how i want to paint my SW army !

Spoiler:

From what has been posted only Bjorn and Venerable can take the Helfrost Cannon.

As for the Picture, I think it is Harald Deathwolf, but I could be wrong.

I can't seem to find to cost of the Helfrost Cannon...

**Hulksmash**

Anyone tempted by 90 Bloodclaws for 1080pts? Figure 120pts of upgrades and you've still got 650 in a normal list for support.

**Anpu42**

Hulksmash wrote:
Anyone tempted by 90 Bloodclaws for 1080pts? Figure 120pts of upgrades and you've still got 650 in a normal list for support.

Yes since the 5th ed book came out

**Red Corsair**

Hulksmash wrote:
Anyone tempted by 90 Bloodclaws for 1080pts? Figure 120pts of upgrades and you've still got 650 in a normal list for support.

Nope. It's still just 6 scoring units, only they have no teeth at range in a shooting edition. They won't even be able to crack tanks very well.

**Bulldogging**

I can't seem to find to cost of the Helfrost Cannon...

It was translated as free exchange from the Multimelta.

Makes sense, since it's about equal overall.

**Red Corsair**

Not unless your trying to help their financials anyway lol.

**streamdragon**

Anpu42 wrote:
With the addition of Shotguns and the ability to take a Heavy Weapon I think gave them more flexibility. I think they may also fill the roll of Tactical Marines as objective holders.

Did I miss something about shotguns not being complete crap?

**pretre**

Hulksmash wrote:
Anyone tempted by 90 Bloodclaws for 1080pts? Figure 120pts of upgrades and you've still got 650 in a normal list for support.

I don't know about 90, but they certainly are worth taking now.

**Red Corsair**

streamdragon wrote:
Anpu42 wrote:
With the addition of Shotguns and the ability to take a Heavy Weapon I think gave them more flexibility. I think they may also fill the roll of Tactical Marines as objective holders.

Did I miss something about shotguns not being complete crap?

Nope some people think shotguns makes up for losing rear flanking somehow. They are utter crap. 14ppm 4+ save marines without combat squads or Obsec that eats an elite slot.

**pretre**

I guess it depends on the heavies, but an inflitrating multi-melta might be somewhat useful.

**Red Corsair**

pretre wrote:
Hulksmash wrote:
Anyone tempted by 90 Bloodclaws for 1080pts? Figure 120pts of upgrades and you've still got 650 in a normal list for support.

I don't know about 90, but they certainly are worth taking now.

I'd say one full squad plus a character in either a crusader or stormwolf would be fun. Expensive and risky, but fun. I'd say the crusader is actually a better transport to be honest.

**Anpu42**

streamdragon wrote:
Anpu42 wrote:
With the addition of Shotguns and the ability to take a Heavy Weapon I think gave them more flexibility. I think they may also fill the roll of Tactical Marines as objective holders.

Did I miss something about shotguns not being complete crap?

Shotguns are 12" S4 AP- Assault 2. Not great, but if you are taking on Tau, the Double Shots is better than a Bolt Pistol. It is situational witch is better of three of the Weapons.
>Bolt Pistols: Orks or Guard or if you are planning Assaulting.
>Bolt Gun: General Duty weapon if you are not Assaulting.
>Shotguns: You want RoF over Melee Attacks.

**pretre**

Red Corsair wrote:
pretre wrote:
Hulksmash wrote:
Anyone tempted by 90 Bloodclaws for 1080pts? Figure 120pts of upgrades and you've still got 650 in a normal list for support.

I don't know about 90, but they certainly are worth taking now.

I'd say one full squad plus a character in either a crusader or stormwolf would be fun. Expensive and risky, but fun. I'd say the crusader is actually a better transport to be honest.

Yeah, but the stormwolf will be fun. Full squad with WGPL and a Wolf Priest in Stormwolf will be hilarious.

**Red Corsair**

pretre wrote:
I guess it depends on the heavies, but an inflitrating multi-melta might be somewhat useful.

IDK, with the infiltrate rules you won't be in melta range so its just single short ranged s8 shot. They can scout closer but your relying on your opponent to deploy poorly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pretre wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
pretre wrote:
Hulksmash wrote:
Anyone tempted by 90 Bloodclaws for 1080pts? Figure 120pts of upgrades and you've still got 650 in a normal list for support.

I don't know about 90, but they certainly are worth taking now.

I'd say one full squad plus a character in either a crusader or stormwolf would be fun. Expensive and risky, but fun. I'd say the crusader is actually a better transport to be honest.

Yeah, but the stormwolf will be fun. Full squad with WGPL and a Wolf Priest in Stormwolf will be hilarious.

I agree, I just think it's risky given it can get shot down smoking 600ish points or not come in from reserves until it's too late.

**Anpu42**

pretre wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
pretre wrote:
Hulksmash wrote:
Anyone tempted by 90 Bloodclaws for 1080pts? Figure 120pts of upgrades and you've still got 650 in a normal list for support.

I don't know about 90, but they certainly are worth taking now.

I'd say one full squad plus a character in either a crusader or stormwolf would be fun. Expensive and risky, but fun. I'd say the crusader is actually a better transport to be honest.

Yeah, but the stormwolf will be fun. Full squad with WGPL and a Wolf Priest in Stormwolf will be hilarious.

And if you take the Landing pad you can pull off a Second Turn Assault.
Then on turn 2 Pod your Rifleman Dread, Long Fangs or Terminators.
I like putting my Land Speeders on it after whatever Flier has left it.

**Red Corsair**

2nd turn assault sounds wishful, and now your in more for the damn pad.

**streamdragon**

pretre wrote:
I guess it depends on the heavies, but an inflitrating multi-melta might be somewhat useful.

I'd be surprised if they got anything beyond Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter. Those are the only heavy weapon options for normal scouts, which we seem to be bring brought in line of.

I'm also honestly not sold on Blood Claws still. Are they still WS/BS 3?

**Uriels_Flame**

Yes.

**Paradigm**

WS3 doesn't really make a difference, they're still hitting most things on a 4+. Being hit on a 3+ by MEQ might hurt, but they can do enough damage with the huge number of attacks to mitigate that. You also get more bodies, so can absorb damage better than most MEQ.

**Anpu42**

Red Corsair wrote:
2nd turn assault sounds wishful, and now your in more for the damn pad.

The thing is, you are not buying a pad for the Flyer only. With the shields up if gives anything on the Pad a 4++ Save.
Turn One:
You go First, Move 12" then 12" Flat Out
You go second, your Stormfang has a 4++ Save. Move 12" then 12" Flat Out, Jink if you have to.

Next turn move 6" And Assault out of it.
I put my 3 Land Typhoons on it, they now have a 4++ Save.

Paradigm wrote:
WS3 doesn't really make a difference, they're still hitting most things on a 4+. Being hit on a 3+ by MEQ might hurt, but they can do enough damage with the huge number of attacks to mitigate that. You also get more bodies, so can absorb damage better than most MEQ.

That what your Wolf Priest is for!

**Red Corsair**

Paradigm wrote:
WS3 doesn't really make a difference, they're still hitting most things on a 4+. Being hit on a 3+ by MEQ might hurt, but they can do enough damage with the huge number of attacks to mitigate that. You also get more bodies, so can absorb damage better than most MEQ.

They are one dimensional though. All in on assault in an edition that punishes being CC oriented. I agree at least they are cheap, the high model count is a trap I think though. The only way to get them there is with a 230-250+ point transport.

It will be fun as hell the odd time it hits something worth hitting though. Facing MSU will be annoying though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Anpu42 wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
2nd turn assault sounds wishful, and now your in more for the damn pad.

The thing is, you are not buying a pad for the Flyer only. With the shields up if gives anything on the Pad a 4++ Save.
Turn One:
You go First, Move 12" then 12" Flat Out
You go second, your Stormfang has a 4++ Save. Move 12" then 12" Flat Out, Jink if you have to.

Next turn move 6" And Assault out of it.
I put my 3 Land Typhoons on it, they now have a 4++ Save.

It's a flier so turn one your in reserve.

Turn 2 roll a die and hope for a 3+.

If the shields up you can't DS onto it.

Does it have DS anyway?

So yea basically it's T3 assault at the earliest.

**Anpu42**

Red Corsair wrote:
Paradigm wrote:
WS3 doesn't really make a difference, they're still hitting most things on a 4+. Being hit on a 3+ by MEQ might hurt, but they can do enough damage with the huge number of attacks to mitigate that. You also get more bodies, so can absorb damage better than most MEQ.

They are one dimensional though. All in on assault in an edition that punishes being CC oriented. I agree at least they are cheap, the high model count is a trap I think though. The only way to get them there is with a 230-250+ point transport.

It will be fun as hell the odd time it hits something worth hitting though. Facing MSU will be annoying though.

Yes they are, especially when fighting someone thinks they are junk and then wrack of 40-50 hits.