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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/16 05:46:01
Subject: Tank shock shenanigans
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Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk
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Tank shock to me has always seemed kind of underpowered, with most units able to dodge away. The rule book is unclear about the distance a unit can move to avoid being run over, and in many cases, models have moved the "shortest distance to get out of the way" 8 or 9 inches or more as I box them in with vehicles or units as they simply move through where the vehicle came from to end up behind it somehow. Is this correct, or, as I suspect, a unit is limited to moving its natural move to get out of the way and are unable to walk through the "path" of the shocking tank?
Also, truck with ram shenanigans: aegis defense line turrets have a T value rather than armour so are tank shocked instead of rammed, and because they can't get out of the way it is instant killed by a truck driving over it?
EDIT: Accidentally enabled multiple choices on poll, please ignore, whoops
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/16 06:43:11
2016 Score: 7W; 0D; 2L |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/16 05:51:17
Subject: Tank shock shenanigans
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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An "aegis defense line turret" (Gun Emplacement) is Battlefield debris, and Battlefield debris is difficult terrain.
So you do not Tank Shock or Ram a Gun emplacement as you can not Tank Shock or Ram difficult terrain.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/16 06:41:58
Subject: Re:Tank shock shenanigans
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Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk
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I agree that it is difficult terrain and a test would be needed to run it over, sort of like a bizarre death or glory, but as a model with a T value I am still inclined to think it is tank shock-able. For example, a building is terrain, but vehicles are able to ram them can they not? I don't think being terrain and being damagable are mutually exclusive.
Additionally, the emplacements have a toughness value, armour save, and wounds, so certainly can be destroyed over the course of the game, so I don't think we can treat them in the same category as say, some rocks or even the aegis line it's with as just a piece of terrain immune to damage results, because it can definitely be damaged.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/16 06:50:16
2016 Score: 7W; 0D; 2L |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/16 06:53:15
Subject: Re:Tank shock shenanigans
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Regular Dakkanaut
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the whole point of the tank shock is that they must move the shortest distance to get out of the way. if most the unit is on the right of the tank, and your guys has to move to the left because its the shortest distance, he's killed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/16 07:53:56
Subject: Re:Tank shock shenanigans
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Bolg da Goff wrote:I agree that it is difficult terrain and a test would be needed to run it over, sort of like a bizarre death or glory, but as a model with a T value I am still inclined to think it is tank shock-able. For example, a building is terrain, but vehicles are able to ram them can they not? I don't think being terrain and being damagable are mutually exclusive.
Additionally, the emplacements have a toughness value, armour save, and wounds, so certainly can be destroyed over the course of the game, so I don't think we can treat them in the same category as say, some rocks or even the aegis line it's with as just a piece of terrain immune to damage results, because it can definitely be damaged.
only units are able to be Tank Shocked.
Terrain is not able to be Tank Shocked.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/16 09:01:12
Subject: Tank shock shenanigans
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Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk
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Ok, so going by that however, I could park a vehicle on it to deny control of it to any enemy because they can't come within an inch of me if I pass the terrain test?
I'm still inclined to think its doable though. I'm aware it is a terrain piece, but it has stats, and that's what really puts me on the other side of the fence. Such as walkers ring vehicles that act as infantry, it feels like a terrain piece that acts as a unit, especially since it is capable of firing on its own. It may not be RAW, but I'm going to scrounge deep in the book in defence of this. Other terrain pieces with stats are able to be interacted with via vehicle movement, so there really should be an FAQ or something.
I realize I'm being stubborn about this, but I'm just having a hard time wrapping my mind around it. So I'm just supposed to ignore it with me vehicles perfectly viable tank shocking hilarity, and be content to only be able to destroy it via bullets or punches? Don't taste right.
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2016 Score: 7W; 0D; 2L |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/16 15:54:14
Subject: Tank shock shenanigans
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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Buildings have Rules informing us they are both Units, if claimed, and to treat them as Vehicles to resolve these sort of situations.
Other Terrain does not.
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8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/16 15:57:26
Subject: Tank shock shenanigans
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Bolg da Goff wrote:Ok, so going by that however, I could park a vehicle on it to deny control of it to any enemy because they can't come within an inch of me if I pass the terrain test? Yes, as you can with objectives within terrain. I'm still inclined to think its doable though. I'm aware it is a terrain piece, but it has stats, and that's what really puts me on the other side of the fence. Such as walkers ring vehicles that act as infantry, it feels like a terrain piece that acts as a unit, especially since it is capable of firing on its own. It may not be RAW, but I'm going to scrounge deep in the book in defence of this. Other terrain pieces with stats are able to be interacted with via vehicle movement, so there really should be an FAQ or something. I realize I'm being stubborn about this, but I'm just having a hard time wrapping my mind around it. So I'm just supposed to ignore it with me vehicles perfectly viable tank shocking hilarity, and be content to only be able to destroy it via bullets or punches? Don't taste right.
It does not act as a unit. It can not fire on its own, it is a Gun Emplacement, Gun Emplacements behind an Aegis Defense Line do not have automated fire. It doesn't matter that it has stats, you can only Tank Shock enemy units. You can not tank shock terrain.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/16 15:57:40
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/16 19:00:37
Subject: Tank shock shenanigans
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Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk
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Ok. And the aegis gun can't fire on its own eh? We'll then I've been got there more times than one. I'll have to point it out to the guy.
Ok, so I think the whole tank shocking the gun is cut and dry :( but what about the first question? For example say there was a tunnel about 8" long and as wide as a rhino, and at the end of the tunnel is a 5 man sm team. If a rhino goes through that perfectly wide tunnel and tank shocks onto them, are they allowed to pass through the tanks as if ghosts to fulfill the "minimum move to get out of the way"?
Alternatively, if there was a large mob of tyranids and a large vehicle such as a battle wagon or land raider positioned itself so that it bisected the unit, and half the unit could not maintain coherency with the other half of the unit in order to fulfill the minimum move to get out of the way, would half the unit be destroyed?
I guess what I'm asking is whether or not the clause is "minimum distance move THAT ALSO MAINTAINS COHERENCY NO MATTER WHAT" or if it's a "minimum distance move pray to tzeentch you maintain coherency"?
I really appreciate everyone's answers so far, even if it does not seem it. So thanks.
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2016 Score: 7W; 0D; 2L |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/16 19:41:41
Subject: Tank shock shenanigans
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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One of the things I despise about Tank Shock is how difficult it is to get a Crunch. What you are looking at is a list of instructions telling us how to move the Models out from out underneath the tank, and not a list of criteria that need to be met or else 'Crunch.' This means any Model which is underneath the Tank can move through said Tank, and other things I consider shenanigans of a poorly Formatted Rule, if that is the shortest path to get back into the 2 inch bubble of another Model from the Unit. It is only in situations where there are no physical positions where the Model can be placed do they end up getting Crunched, for example if the Tank shocked Unit finds itself surrounded on all sides by enemy Models or Impassable Terrain, to the point that no other Models may be placed in coherency without ending up within said terrain or 1 inch of an Enemy Model.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/16 19:45:46
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/16 19:56:20
Subject: Tank shock shenanigans
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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As far as they as far as they need to move to clear the incoming tank, can move through the incoming tank is the correct answer to your Q1
They do not limit the distance for movement out of the way of the tank, and the tank is already on top of them so they are already moving through it.
Therefore shortest distance maintaining coherency and as far as they need to move to clear the incoming tank.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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