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Hey everyone, here's the list I'm currently using at 1850, but I don't think it is good enough to win a tourney because it has some problems against a couple of the top lists, like Necron AV13 spam and Eldar Wave Serpent spam. Do any of you have any ideas how I could beat those lists?

Grey Knights Primary:

Coteaz
Libby (ML 3 with Servo Skulls and Hammer)

5 Psybacks with 1 Psyker 1 Mystic and 1 Warrior Acolyte each

2 Nemesis Dreadknights with Greatsword, H. Incinerator, and Teleporter

Space Marines Allies:

Tigurius

5 Scouts (bolters)

5 Centuions (Grav-cannon and Grav-amps, sergeant has an Omniscope for split-fire)


The Necrons would just tie up the death star with wraiths or kite them with barges while gunning for my psybacks, then the flyers would come in to finish off my troops and claim objectives. The star could probably kill one barge a turn if I can get in range and the DKs can also reliably kill one a turn, provided they don't die. An overlord with MSS could prove troublesome.

The serpents are very fast and again could kite my star and gun for my troops, although they aren't as bad as the barges. My cents can kill Wraithknights or at least zone them, esp if I get Gate of Infinity. Thing is, the serpents, if they take lances, can just murder my DKs, as can the wraithknights. I guess I can try to get into combat with the WKs and ID them with the DKs force weapons.

Ideas for dealing with Necs would be to get a stormraven to help with anti air, esp since the S7 guns on the nec flyers wouldn't do too much to the stormraven, hopefully. Or get dreadnoughts, which are also good against serpents and DE venomspam, but can still be killed easily by lances or WKs.

Thoughts? Maybe Cent-star just isn't a top-tier list. I usually get good psychic powers and have good board control, but I feel against some of these armies I just can't kill enough of them before they kill my tropps, even if I leave my psybacks in reserves.

Thank you very much guys!

Your star could get tarpited yes, but remember that you can gate out of cc. You should have invisibility on your star. So with 1 player turn in cc before you gate out, it's usually not that big problem.

Against skimmer spam try to fish for the ignore cover psycici powers.

I usually prefere 3 psydreads over 2 dreadknights. With 3 dreadnoughts and 5 cent i do fine against serpants/barges. I'm more afraid of seercouncil, beaststar or big AM blobs.

A list like yours are good, but 7.ed is more rock scissor than ever. Necrons and eldar are amoung the best out there, so those matches will be hard whatsoever i guess.

Besides being able to gate out, wraiths should never get to you, if they get close you can gate away. also you can be very aggressive with your ndks and force the wraiths to deal with them while your cent star goes to town. Even if you do not get ignore cover serpent star is a very winnable match up, especially with those ndks. You also shouldn't have many problems with av13 wall as its shooting doesn't do much to your important units.

Man, it's lucky Sentry-Star isn't wide spread. Its alpha strike could seriously devastate a list like this.

Regardless, I'll second that notion for Psy-Dreads over DKs.

I've been having good luck with a similar list:

+ Coteaz
+ Draigo
+ 3x Psyback Squads (1x Acolyte, 1x Mystic, 1x Psyker, 1x Psyback)
+ 1x Henchman Squad with Psyker, Acolyte, and Banisher
+ Stormraven: Assault Cannon, Hurricane Bolters, Multi-Melta, Psybolts
+ Psyfleman
+ Psyfleman
+ Psyfleman

+ Tigirius
+ Scout Squad
+ Centurion Squad: 3x Devturions and 1x Devturion Sergeant with Omniscope

Total: 1850

However, I DO like your use of NDKs. I just can't seem to bring myself to drop the dreadnoughts.

 skoffs wrote:
Man, it's lucky Sentry-Star isn't wide spread. Its alpha strike could seriously devastate a list like this.

Regardless, I'll second that notion for Psy-Dreads over DKs.

What is Sentry-Star if I may ask? Never heard of it

blackarmchair wrote:
I've been having good luck with a similar list:

+ Coteaz
+ Draigo
+ 3x Psyback Squads (1x Acolyte, 1x Mystic, 1x Psyker, 1x Psyback)
+ 1x Henchman Squad with Psyker, Acolyte, and Banisher
+ Stormraven: Assault Cannon, Hurricane Bolters, Multi-Melta, Psybolts
+ Psyfleman
+ Psyfleman
+ Psyfleman

+ Tigirius
+ Scout Squad
+ Centurion Squad: 3x Devturions and 1x Devturion Sergeant with Omniscope

Total: 1850

However, I DO like your use of NDKs. I just can't seem to bring myself to drop the dreadnoughts.

That's a good list, I think I will try Draigo instead of the libby next time I play. Can better tank wounds. The NDKs are so incredibly good at killing weaker xenos troops with the incinerator and any vehicle they touch, because of the great sword. And instant deathing other MCs... man I love the threat that they bring, allows me to take the heat off my troops. It's just these mobile lists can hop away from them or wait till flyers come in to kill all my troops. A storm raven would help with that. Thanks for the list. I'll try something similar but with NDKs.

Also doesn't Draigo hit like a wet noodle in combat? Only S5 and AP3...

I have been fiddling around with a drop pod list which incorporates a cent star as well. The problem with the marine codex is it's lack of psyker power. I usually run tiggy, a level 2 Libby, and some grey knights however I found that my objective securing with the psy-backs were unreliable and really didn't give me that much more warp charges. So I looked into one white scars librarian and found that he was amazing. Basically you drop him in with the centurions and the entire unit gets hit and run (check the special rule in the BRB). This allowed my centurions to pull off stuff that normal centurions couldn't like charging into combat on my turn to avoid getting shot at, and getting free moves in any direction. Being t5 and having a 2+ armor save in combat is really durable and will hold up to most units. Also the sanctity discipline has excellent synergy with this tactic when rolling for gate you may find yourself getting hammerhand, cleansing flame, and sanctuary all of which can work really well if you get prescience and forewarning on tiggy in close combat. This combined with 4 drop pods coming in on turn one as well as 3 thunderfire cannons means no unit is sage anywhere. Though to be honest I really don't like the thunderfire cannons in this meta anymore.

 gmaleron wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Man, it's lucky Sentry-Star isn't wide spread. Its alpha strike could seriously devastate a list like this.

Regardless, I'll second that notion for Psy-Dreads over DKs.

What is Sentry-Star if I may ask? Never heard of it

It's the new Necron replacement for the Spyder-Star.
It hinges on 3 Sentry Pylons with Focused Deathray + Vargard Obyron + Necron Overlord with Relentless.
They can teleport to the other side of the table on turn 1, and lay down an obscene amount of S10 AP1 shots (that can get around Invisible, btw).
That alpha strike can end the game before you've even had your first turn... the kind of broken crap that needs to be FAQd away.

I would almost try a cheesy-ish invisible death star list like this but damn do those centurions look like crap. Need to look up conversions for those guys...


Anyway, besides the broken Necron star thing there *are* other attacks which ignore Invisibility. If a list can crack through that a Centurion star list is in trouble...

hyozanman wrote:
I have been fiddling around with a drop pod list which incorporates a cent star as well. The problem with the marine codex is it's lack of psyker power. I usually run tiggy, a level 2 Libby, and some grey knights however I found that my objective securing with the psy-backs were unreliable and really didn't give me that much more warp charges. So I looked into one white scars librarian and found that he was amazing. Basically you drop him in with the centurions and the entire unit gets hit and run (check the special rule in the BRB). This allowed my centurions to pull off stuff that normal centurions couldn't like charging into combat on my turn to avoid getting shot at, and getting free moves in any direction. Being t5 and having a 2+ armor save in combat is really durable and will hold up to most units. Also the sanctity discipline has excellent synergy with this tactic when rolling for gate you may find yourself getting hammerhand, cleansing flame, and sanctuary all of which can work really well if you get prescience and forewarning on tiggy in close combat. This combined with 4 drop pods coming in on turn one as well as 3 thunderfire cannons means no unit is sage anywhere. Though to be honest I really don't like the thunderfire cannons in this meta anymore.

Unfortunately this does not work, hit and run is lost when in the same units that wear centurion or terminator armor

Spart, i think it does work. I could be wrong but:

It says Terminators and Centaurian devestators do not gain the Hit and Run USR from white scars chapter tactics.

It doesnt say a character with it loose it if he is attatched to them.

spartiatis wrote:

hyozanman wrote:
I have been fiddling around with a drop pod list which incorporates a cent star as well. The problem with the marine codex is it's lack of psyker power. I usually run tiggy, a level 2 Libby, and some grey knights however I found that my objective securing with the psy-backs were unreliable and really didn't give me that much more warp charges. So I looked into one white scars librarian and found that he was amazing. Basically you drop him in with the centurions and the entire unit gets hit and run (check the special rule in the BRB). This allowed my centurions to pull off stuff that normal centurions couldn't like charging into combat on my turn to avoid getting shot at, and getting free moves in any direction. Being t5 and having a 2+ armor save in combat is really durable and will hold up to most units. Also the sanctity discipline has excellent synergy with this tactic when rolling for gate you may find yourself getting hammerhand, cleansing flame, and sanctuary all of which can work really well if you get prescience and forewarning on tiggy in close combat. This combined with 4 drop pods coming in on turn one as well as 3 thunderfire cannons means no unit is sage anywhere. Though to be honest I really don't like the thunderfire cannons in this meta anymore.

Unfortunately this does not work, hit and run is lost when in the same units that wear centurion or terminator armor

Why does this always come up? White scars chapter tactics says in the C:SM "all models in this detachment get the Hit and run special rule except for centurions, and terminators". So yes, centurions DON'T have hit and run, however that 65 point white scars Libby DOES have hit and run, and per the rules in the BRB if one model in a unit has hit and run he can make an initiative test and get out of combat.

Hit & Run:
Yep, checks out. Looks like it's RAW (though they should probably FAQ that to bring it in line with RAI, as I highly doubt they meant for Terminators and Centurions to be able to do so).

Super Newb wrote:
I would almost try a cheesy-ish invisible death star list like this but damn do those centurions look like crap. Need to look up conversions for those guys...

I have seen some good versions of them that take off the telly tubby paddings for more of a exoskeleton look.

I'd echo that you shouldn't really have that big of a problem with wraiths.

You can gate out provided that you have it and on top of that you have 3 characters, all of them with force weapons doubling out wraiths with each unsaved wound. Throw in prescience and the centurions will kick down a wraith every full game turn too.

Super Newb wrote:
I would almost try a cheesy-ish invisible death star list like this but damn do those centurions look like crap. Need to look up conversions for those guys...


Anyway, besides the broken Necron star thing there *are* other attacks which ignore Invisibility. If a list can crack through that a Centurion star list is in trouble...

Actually, I've rarely gotten invis despite having 5 psykers rolling on the telepathy table. Usually the 3+ invuln save (2+on Draigo) from forewarning+sanctuary is enough to keep them alive throughout the game. But If I get invis on top of that, man then the opponent will literally ignore the cent-star. So yeah, invis great, but not needed for the cents to be tough.

Also I had a game today against Necron AV13 spam:

2 Overlords with MSS SW ResOrb WS in CCB

4 5-man warrior squads in Night Scythes

2 squads of 6 wraiths

3 Annihilation Barges

1850 points

It was tough to figure out who to prioritize, but If I have the cent-star shoot the CCBs and thus taking MSS away, my NDKs can turn to the ABs. I was planning on having my psybacks kill the wraiths, but wraiths got into combat with both NDKs on turn one and were stuck in combat for 3 player turns (everyone was making their saves). After that, I shunted the remaining NDK into his dep[deployment zone to try to kill an AB and get linebreaker, which was sucessful. The whole game my psybacks clustered up and hid behind terrain because one of my psykers got the 6" shrouded bubble which gave them all pretty good cover saves. The night scythes went after my troops but because of the cover saves and the new vehicle damage table he only killed one. Also I got the WL trait of -1 to enemy's reserve rolls which helped a ton.

So overall I don't think AV13 spam or wraithwing is that bad. Wraithwing might actually be worse since the D-Lords can get into combat with the NDKs and MSS them. Just keep gunning the barges down with the OP-as-heck grav-guns.

Next up I'm going to try my new list (drop one psyback to take draigo instead of libby) against Eldar serpent spam with Wraithknights and then against DE venom spam (with 1 WK allied in). Will report back.

Thanks for all your help so far.

Fearfire wrote:
I was planning on having my psybacks kill the wraiths, but wraiths got into combat with both NDKs on turn one and were stuck in combat for 3 player turns

Wraiths got into combat on turn ONE?!

 skoffs wrote:

Fearfire wrote:
I was planning on having my psybacks kill the wraiths, but wraiths got into combat with both NDKs on turn one and were stuck in combat for 3 player turns

Wraiths got into combat on turn ONE?!

Yeah... I moved one of my NDKs about 14" away from one of the units of wraiths so it could incinerate them, since my cent star was also going to shoot at it this turn (I had first turn and wraiths were the only thing in range). I was hoping to wipe out the 6 of them but learned the hard way that those darn invulnerable saves never fail. So then he charged my NDKS and tied it up, since I only seemed to get one wound through a turn once we got into combat (which still caused ID to the wraith tho).

 skoffs wrote:

Fearfire wrote:
I was planning on having my psybacks kill the wraiths, but wraiths got into combat with both NDKs on turn one and were stuck in combat for 3 player turns

Wraiths got into combat on turn ONE?!

This can happen when the NDK's move forward very quickly.

I thought there was a restriction preventing turn one assault/combat?

Fearfire wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
I would almost try a cheesy-ish invisible death star list like this but damn do those centurions look like crap. Need to look up conversions for those guys...


Anyway, besides the broken Necron star thing there *are* other attacks which ignore Invisibility. If a list can crack through that a Centurion star list is in trouble...

Actually, I've rarely gotten invis despite having 5 psykers rolling on the telepathy table. Usually the 3+ invuln save (2+on Draigo) from forewarning+sanctuary is enough to keep them alive throughout the game. But If I get invis on top of that, man then the opponent will literally ignore the cent-star. So yeah, invis great, but not needed for the cents to be tough.

Tiguiris or however you spell it has a super high chance of getting Invisibility all by himself...

 skoffs wrote:
I thought there was a restriction preventing turn one assault/combat?

Only for inflitrators and scouts, check those rules. The rest can charge as normal.

Super Newb wrote:

Fearfire wrote:

Super Newb wrote:
I would almost try a cheesy-ish invisible death star list like this but damn do those centurions look like crap. Need to look up conversions for those guys...


Anyway, besides the broken Necron star thing there *are* other attacks which ignore Invisibility. If a list can crack through that a Centurion star list is in trouble...

Actually, I've rarely gotten invis despite having 5 psykers rolling on the telepathy table. Usually the 3+ invuln save (2+on Draigo) from forewarning+sanctuary is enough to keep them alive throughout the game. But If I get invis on top of that, man then the opponent will literally ignore the cent-star. So yeah, invis great, but not needed for the cents to be tough.

Tiguiris or however you spell it has a super high chance of getting Invisibility all by himself...

I prefer using tiggy to roll on divination since some of the results on div are useless to me and he can re-roll those. But maybe I should use him to go for invis, then use draigo/coteaz on div? That pretty much eliminates my chance of getting sanctuary or gate tho, and even so it means I need draigo or coteaz to get forewarning so the squad can have an invuln save.

Figuring out the order in which to generate psychic powers is pretty difficult and I haven't found the answer yet. I guess invis is really important, and if tiggy has it then he can reroll his attempt to cast it too...