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I played a game yesterday against orks. I thought orks rolled on the mob rule table if they failed a morale or pinning test? The ork player said only morale tests. It was a friendly game so I wasn't sweating it but for future reference I'd like to know.
Thanks guys.

It's morale and pinning

Just a friendly request to check the rule, or to review the rule, could have saved you the headache.

...and furthermore, the models lost in the pinning test counts toward the number of models that determines if you roll a moral check after loosing 25% of your unit's models.


Last game, I had a unit of Storm boyz lost due to this.
I was shot by a pinning weapon, lost the leadership test, I then lost 4 models due to the mob rule. I ended up loosing 25% of my models. I then failed the moral test at the end of the shooting phase and my unit was below 10 models and they feld off the table in the following round after another failed moral test!

So if you fight orks with lots of boyz and infantries, the best thing you can bring are pinning weapons :-)
Like a a few units of space marines scouts.

Edit: Mmmm, I think I just remembered that snipers lost pinning so forget about this type of unit.

 paqman wrote:
...and furthermore, the models lost in the pinning test counts toward the number of models that determines if you roll a moral check after loosing 25% of your unit's models.


Last game, I had a unit of Storm boyz lost due to this.
I was shot by a pinning weapon, lost the leadership test, I then lost 4 models due to the mob rule. I ended up loosing 25% of my models. I then failed the moral test at the end of the shooting phase and my unit was below 10 models and they feld off the table in the following round after another failed moral test!

So if you fight orks with lots of boyz and infantries, the best thing you can bring are pinning weapons :-)
Like a a few units of space marines scouts.

Edit: Mmmm, I think I just remembered that snipers lost pinning so forget about this type of unit.

Yeap. I really would like to throttle the person who came up with the new Mob Rule table.

My first game I had a squad of Boyz in a Trukk.

First their Trukk got wrecked. They failed morale, and lost 3 Boyz to Mob Rule.
Then the opponent shot them with a Barbed Strangler. I lost 2 Boyz to the Barbed Stranger. The Strangler also forced another Pinning test, which I lost another 4 Orks to.
Then I had a morale save, which I lost an additional 2 Boyz to.

I was left with only the Nob remaining. Only two Orks in the entire unit were actually lost to enemy shooting. All the others suicided.

I was somewhat vindicated though. That lone Nob managed to kill a Biovore, a Hive Guard, and use his combi-flamer to roast 5 termigaunts before he was killed.

This sounds like bad luck on the rolls. If your loosing 3-4 boys from the mob role. Even if you get 6 hits , that's 3.wounds on average. Also if you check 3 times in a turn and fail all 3 LD checks, and you have a 50% chance to pass.

I have lost 6 orks to the mob rule over the course of 7 games.

Also how any storm boyz was it that loosing 4 to mob check caused a morale at end of shooting.and getting you below 10 ? Orks work better in large mobs. If you are running 15 storm boyz, they only need to kill 4 to force a morale. Of you had 30 , 8 have to die.

I'm starting not to believe these stories of people losing 4-8 orks from a single unit for the mob rule in 1 turn. Or it happens once due to bad luck and people are saying it is what always happens.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
This sounds like bad luck on the rolls. If your loosing 3-4 boys from the mob role. Even if you get 6 hits , that's 3.wounds on average. Also if you check 3 times in a turn and fail all 3 LD checks, and you have a 50% chance to pass.

I have lost 6 orks to the mob rule over the course of 7 games.

Also how any storm boyz was it that loosing 4 to mob check caused a morale at end of shooting.and getting you below 10 ? Orks work better in large mobs. If you are running 15 storm boyz, they only need to kill 4 to force a morale. Of you had 30 , 8 have to die.

I'm starting not to believe these stories of people losing 4-8 orks from a single unit for the mob rule in 1 turn. Or it happens once due to bad luck and people are saying it is what always happens.

Yup, it was extremely bad luck. That group outright failed 3 morale checks, and on top of that, they rolled a "6" for the number of Boyz hit by Mob Rule twice. It was my first (and so far only) game with the new Orks, so we'll see how other games turn out.

Bad dice rolls do happen,
I have lost 4 out of 9 Sniper Drones on the opening move, due to a bad decision of Jumping into cover at the same time and the belief that the dice would not be that cruel.
Worse is the fact I have seen people with worse luck then I, and others getting things like 7 sixes in a row.

I am going to go see if I can work out that probability, four positive 1/6's with four positive 1/2's....
0.004822530864197531-03%
*%*@(@$ Dice!

I have had the new mob rule work in my fovor more tims then not...


seriosuly, if you loos more then 1.5 orks for to gain a pass on the LD or pin check, you rolled HORRIBLY.

and the end result of running away, would have been the result without mob rule anyways.

lots of ways for orks to get rerolls to LD and gain fearless too, if you are really worried about it, TAKE THOSE THINGS THAT MITIGATE IT FFS.

several named characters AUTO get the LD boosting WL traits, there are sources for re rolls on the traits, there are sources for fearless, you can put eavy armour on smaller MSU boys to make them survive the hits, and so on and so forth.

the idea that a 6pt model with t4, 2+1+1 str 4 attacks on the charge, ws 4, re rols on charge, and run and charge should also be FEARLESS is a bit much.... fearless but takes a few more casualties is appropriate for the pts cost and fluff

what we have is "fearless but takes causalties" like orks have supposed to have been for ages....

Murrdox wrote:

 paqman wrote:
...and furthermore, the models lost in the pinning test counts toward the number of models that determines if you roll a moral check after loosing 25% of your unit's models.


Last game, I had a unit of Storm boyz lost due to this.
I was shot by a pinning weapon, lost the leadership test, I then lost 4 models due to the mob rule. I ended up loosing 25% of my models. I then failed the moral test at the end of the shooting phase and my unit was below 10 models and they feld off the table in the following round after another failed moral test!

So if you fight orks with lots of boyz and infantries, the best thing you can bring are pinning weapons :-)
Like a a few units of space marines scouts.

Edit: Mmmm, I think I just remembered that snipers lost pinning so forget about this type of unit.

Yeap. I really would like to throttle the person who came up with the new Mob Rule table.

My first game I had a squad of Boyz in a Trukk.

First their Trukk got wrecked. They failed morale, and lost 3 Boyz to Mob Rule.
Then the opponent shot them with a Barbed Strangler. I lost 2 Boyz to the Barbed Stranger. The Strangler also forced another Pinning test, which I lost another 4 Orks to.
Then I had a morale save, which I lost an additional 2 Boyz to.

I was left with only the Nob remaining. Only two Orks in the entire unit were actually lost to enemy shooting. All the others suicided.

I was somewhat vindicated though. That lone Nob managed to kill a Biovore, a Hive Guard, and use his combi-flamer to roast 5 termigaunts before he was killed.

I think you pass just one pinning test at the end of the phase now. I might be wrong though, let me check.

Ehm...guyz, i think we don't have to pass pinning tests for wrecked and exploded no more.

 koooaei wrote:

Murrdox wrote:

 paqman wrote:
...and furthermore, the models lost in the pinning test counts toward the number of models that determines if you roll a moral check after loosing 25% of your unit's models.


Last game, I had a unit of Storm boyz lost due to this.
I was shot by a pinning weapon, lost the leadership test, I then lost 4 models due to the mob rule. I ended up loosing 25% of my models. I then failed the moral test at the end of the shooting phase and my unit was below 10 models and they feld off the table in the following round after another failed moral test!

So if you fight orks with lots of boyz and infantries, the best thing you can bring are pinning weapons :-)
Like a a few units of space marines scouts.

Edit: Mmmm, I think I just remembered that snipers lost pinning so forget about this type of unit.

Yeap. I really would like to throttle the person who came up with the new Mob Rule table.

My first game I had a squad of Boyz in a Trukk.

First their Trukk got wrecked. They failed morale, and lost 3 Boyz to Mob Rule.
Then the opponent shot them with a Barbed Strangler. I lost 2 Boyz to the Barbed Stranger. The Strangler also forced another Pinning test, which I lost another 4 Orks to.
Then I had a morale save, which I lost an additional 2 Boyz to.

I was left with only the Nob remaining. Only two Orks in the entire unit were actually lost to enemy shooting. All the others suicided.

I was somewhat vindicated though. That lone Nob managed to kill a Biovore, a Hive Guard, and use his combi-flamer to roast 5 termigaunts before he was killed.

I think you pass just one pinning test at the end of the phase now. I might be wrong though, let me check.

Ehm...guyz, i think we don't have to pass pinning tests for wrecked and exploded no more.

The rules requiring pinning tests for passengers is in the Transport rules section under "Effects from Damage on Passengers". And yes, unfortunately I checked and a unit takes a pinning test for each weapon with pinning that is fired at them.

I know that my Trukk Boyz that got mostly eliminated due to Mob Rule is generally not how Mob Rule will work. However, as Ork players with only 7 Leadership, my fear is that the volume of rolls that a player makes on the Mob Rule chart pretty much ensure that at least occasionally I'm going to have games where my Orks simply suicide themselves. It could be said that even my Trukk boyz were better off killing themselves than they were running away. But I only needed to make ONE morale save there. I would have probably rather FAILED the pinning test than lose 6 Orks to two of them.

This is yet another reason I think 'Ard Boyz are where the Orks will really shine in the new edition. However that doesn't help any of our other infantry like Lootas, Nobz, and Flash Gitz.

Yes, we do. Page 82, Effect of Damage on Passengers

Edit: Ninja'ed while I went out to the car to get the page number.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
If you are running 15 storm boyz, they only need to kill 4 to force a morale. Of you had 30 , 8 have to die.

Thank is exactly what I did and came to the same conclusion. Storm boyz have to be fielded 30 strong! With Zagstrukk for Bellowing Tyrant.

Zagstrukk also bumps their leadership to 8. If you got a HQ slot to spare (unlikely) you could just pick him up for 65 points.

 Jidmah wrote:
Zagstrukk also bumps their leadership to 8. If you got a HQ slot to spare (unlikely) you could just pick him up for 65 points.

you mean like that 3rd HQ slot that GW gave to orks that no one else has?

All I know is people fear my 30 boyz with shootas , 3 rokkits , nob PK , BP , shoota. + Painboy and attached mek more than any other unit I field.

I never leave home with out at least 2 of those.

And those mobs fear my Wyvern squadrons....

I'm not to scared of S4 small blasts.

 easysauce wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Zagstrukk also bumps their leadership to 8. If you got a HQ slot to spare (unlikely) you could just pick him up for 65 points.

you mean like that 3rd HQ slot that GW gave to orks that no one else has?

Everyone can have 3 Ork HQs, nothing prevents you from fielding an Ork Warband Detachment in whatever army you feel like

The thing about the Ork Horde Detachment that I don't get is why bother? Yes, you can take 3 HQs with 3 Troops mandatory. But you also change out "Objective Secured" for an incredibly less useful "maybe you'll get hammer of wrath" ability.

The Ork Book is clearly built around taking multiple detachments. Unless your tourney forbids it, if you want 3 or 4 HQs, I'd just take two regular detachments of Orks instead of the Ork Horde Detachment. At least if you do that, you have more Heavy Support slots for our insanely crowded Heavy Support area.

No different to the majority of Detachments out there, it appears that the Combined Arms Detachment is designed to be the most useful and the rest measured against it.

Murrdox wrote:
The thing about the Ork Horde Detachment that I don't get is why bother? Yes, you can take 3 HQs with 3 Troops mandatory. But you also change out "Objective Secured" for an incredibly less useful "maybe you'll get hammer of wrath" ability.

The Ork Book is clearly built around taking multiple detachments. Unless your tourney forbids it, if you want 3 or 4 HQs, I'd just take two regular detachments of Orks instead of the Ork Horde Detachment. At least if you do that, you have more Heavy Support slots for our insanely crowded Heavy Support area.

Sometimes you might want to have three HQs without getting a fourth troops choice. But yes, outside of those niche situations, there is little reason for the Ork Horde Detachment.