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Which army when you face it do you feel that the chips are stacked against you before you even put models on the table, when that person says "I play (x)", do you know that you are going to have to change up your mindset tactically to even have a chance of beating?

Basically, state which army you play...or multiple ones, and what army you find as a difficult match up against as well as what steps you have to take in order to counter act them. Any advice people that you can give other people would be awesome too.

I play GK and horde enemies seem to be my bane. Maybe it is the fact that when I go against orks or tyranids and they place so many models on the table and I barely have a little over 20, I know I am going to have to play smartly. To me, target selection and placement of my units become key because otherwise I can overwhelmed easily. I basically also have to proxy all my psycannons as incinerators as well.

Also, SM with grav weaponry, all the shots plus basically negating my armor save, anything with grav weaponry becomes an instant target for me because it can quickly eat my low model count.

-Wave serpent eldar.
-Scatter laser spam.
-Warp spider horde backed up by fragons.
-Wriathknight led eldar.
-A combination of any of the above.

Did I mention eldar?

I play a hybrid Eldar force and my bane are AV13 wall Crons.

My Orks have a hard time with Eldar, Crons, Tau and IG. Too much Tesla and Pie plates there....

My daemons don't really care who they fight, but still not fond of pieplate hell.

My DE dislike Tau, Eldar and IG.

Bit of a theme there...

Tau. My sisters don't like the shooting, being slow, although I've started figuring out how to avoid it (AV13, yeah), and my elder are too fragile to take much punishment (the problems of sword wind).

Poly Ranger wrote:
-Wave serpent eldar.
-Scatter laser spam.
-Warp spider horde backed up by fragons.
-Wriathknight led eldar.
-A combination of any of the above.

Did I mention eldar?

Can I quintuple exalt a post?

Also I play IG.

Tau are not fun to play aganist they just sit and shot.

Serpent Spam
Jet Council
Any Army containing more then 2 Wave Serpents
Tau Fire base
Telsa Spam
Anything with more then 2 Flyers


Can you tell i play Dark Eldar?

Cover saves......

(Edit: Cover saves based on jinking or ADLs)

Mr.Blue wrote:
Tau are not fun to play aganist they just sit and shot.

Having fielded tau, also not fun to play as. At least, to me.

Dark eldar give me headaches every time, as a marine player.

Necrons were rough enough already when ran by a good general but now with a 4+ jink gak got real..... and if they are making the 3++ on the wraiths you just gonna have a bad day.

I am seeing a pattern here: Tau, Necrons and Eldar.

Surely, these forces can't be nigh unstoppable, right? There has to be strategy and tactics that can disable these guys. O know for the GK, as soon as you get Tau and Necrons (exception being the Necron Lord with mind shackle) into CC they fold like paper and having DS lets me get right into the comfortable backfield and give what is coming for them.

 Envihon wrote:
I am seeing a pattern here: Tau, Necrons and Eldar.

Surely, these forces can't be nigh unstoppable, right? There has to be strategy and tactics that can disable these guys. O know for the GK, as soon as you get Tau and Necrons (exception being the Necron Lord with mind shackle) into CC they fold like paper and having DS lets me get right into the comfortable backfield and give what is coming for them.

Assuming everyone plays GK

Shunting and alpha strikes work great if you have it but other armies get left out in the cold most the time.

The main issue im running into as Mech IG is that i can never get through Jinking skimmers and Nurgle flying prices jinking on the ground effectivly. The only options in general for IG is to go infantry blobs with Heavy weapons and a Senior Officer with ignore cover order but then im not playing Mech IG am i? also as fun as it is to Ram with a russ, its not gona happen due to 6" move only (besides when a CCB charges forwards and doesn't kill the tank )

For Tyranids it was always fast, mobile vehicles. Eldar, Necrons, Tau to some degree back in late 3rd where Hammerheads and Devilfish were everywhere. Really anything with AV12 could just laugh out of carnifex charging range.

So now I have Eldar and a bunch of precision sledgehammers and fast tanks and I am looking forward to being that prick in the game for once.

 Desubot wrote:

 Envihon wrote:
I am seeing a pattern here: Tau, Necrons and Eldar.

Surely, these forces can't be nigh unstoppable, right? There has to be strategy and tactics that can disable these guys. O know for the GK, as soon as you get Tau and Necrons (exception being the Necron Lord with mind shackle) into CC they fold like paper and having DS lets me get right into the comfortable backfield and give what is coming for them.

Assuming everyone plays GK

Shunting and alpha strikes work great if you have it but other armies get left out in the cold most the time.

The main issue im running into as Mech IG is that i can never get through Jinking skimmers and Nurgle flying prices jinking on the ground effectivly. The only options in general for IG is to go infantry blobs with Heavy weapons and a Senior Officer with ignore cover order but then im not playing Mech IG am i? also as fun as it is to Ram with a russ, its not gona happen due to 6" move only (besides when a CCB charges forwards and doesn't kill the tank )

There has to be some way to keep the style of an army but deal with weaknesses like for me taking incinerators over psycannons if I know I am going up against a horde army but that is only good for pick up games, not a tournament where you have to submit an approved list. The fact still remains, is that I know I am about to have a bad time, I tweak my tactics a little bit to deal with some situations.

Eldar take a bit to kill, but my tanks generally win out. Necrons are frustrating given their obscene power levels on some units, but everything dies if you shoot it enough.

The one army that kicks my ass though? Demons.

As Necrons, I refuse to play my friend's Tau, since he uses a good amount of pathfinders and two Hammerheads with Railguns. Having my vehicles gone without a chance to do anything is not something I'm willing to deal with. Also, Eldar. The only unit that can kill a wraithknight effectively, which is Deathmarks, I have had terrible luck with in the most dire times against Eldar, plus Serpant shields can still be annoying, since, you know, no saves for my vehicles.

As Tyranids, I've beaten Tau, but only because they didn't think to shoot my venomthropes with Smart missiles. If they do that, It's pretty much over, since I literally have no defense against it. Same thing with Eldar, Ignores cover is a bitch. Also, I will never, EVER fight Dark Eldar again as Tyranids. That's a fight I will not even unpack my models for.

To sum it up, I refuse to play against something that easily gives me no chance to fight back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Araenion wrote:
I play a hybrid Eldar force and my bane are AV13 wall Crons.

How? I played a hybrid list, which didn't use any wraith units or anything "cheesy", and he still wiped out my vehicles just fine. Don't Dark Reapers ignore Jink specifically?

Dark Eldar don't have it as easy as you'd think vs Tyranids. The amount of Flying Monstrous Creatures they can put down is more then enough to scare the pants off of me and sure, i can force a grounding check with each Venom, but i am only forcing 1 per phase. Poison is flat out not effective against the small gribblies so the only guy suffering is the Carnifex. When you factor in those Flyrants throwing out 5 glances/pens a turn and things become a lot more even...

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Dark Eldar don't have it as easy as you'd think vs Tyranids. The amount of Flying Monstrous Creatures they can put down is more then enough to scare the pants off of me and sure, i can force a grounding check with each Venom, but i am only forcing 1 per phase. Poison is flat out not effective against the small gribblies so the only guy suffering is the Carnifex. When you factor in those Flyrants throwing out 5 glances/pens a turn and things become a lot more even...

Well, I only use a Flyrant, no other flyers, and even then, he's not enough to take out the entire army. Plus, reavers can single out Venomthropes or synapse creatures and just outright kill them, which is slowed.

Does it affect your enjoyment of the game at all or do you get along with it anyway? I have already seen one post where someone refuses to play a certain army list. Is this what we have come down to, just denying games or can there be tactical solutions? Has it ever affected the enjoyment of your army?

As a note, before it happens because I foresee it eventually popping up, we all know that some of the rules are unbalanced but I want to know some creative ways people get around these obstacles. We know that some armies have more of an edge then others but they aren't unbeatable and I want this to be a discussion about how people overcome this to enjoy their army still.

 Envihon wrote:
Does it affect your enjoyment of the game at all or do you get along with it anyway? I have already seen one post where someone refuses to play a certain army list. Is this what we have come down to, just denying games or can there be tactical solutions? Has it ever affected the enjoyment of your army?

As a note, before it happens because I foresee it eventually popping up, we all know that some of the rules are unbalanced but I want to know some creative ways people get around these obstacles. We know that some armies have more of an edge then others but they aren't unbeatable and I want this to be a discussion about how people overcome this to enjoy their army still.

Easiest way for me to beat eldar is to take my necrons. Necrons do seem to be a good counter to eldar skimmers (the way I play them anyway).
As BA its a lot tougher, relying on stormravens and podded furiosos. My assault squads can simply just not catch a serpent, and are far too expensive to flood the board with. However, with all the hidden pfs that BA can run, wraithknights/lords, avatars and the like don't worry me at all.
I don't take my CSM when I know I'll be facing eldar as I run a footslogging, infiltrating (cypher + huron) infantry force backed up by oblits. With access to only 2 rhinos, 1 raider and no other fast units (or heldrake), I don't have the speed or ability to take on multiple serps.

Orks and tau.

My orks havent faced any Tau "yet" but obviously i know both armies well enough to just pit them in my mind and go "orks be boned..." lol. From what i have played, i cant stand Daemons because they tend to bring a gakload of flamers...heavy or worse flamers at that so my bikers are useless.

My tau struggle against Eldar because i just dont understand that army. Theyre a shooty army yet they have assaulty things or high toughness things....yet they have T3 troops. They have crazy speed, but you cant expect it since a lot of them play backfield mode even with short guns.
Every time i face them i come across another problem that to me makes no sense to exist in an army that i faced previously. Granted, its pretty hard to do both tricks at once, but i just cant devise a general list against them.

Tau. Some weapons have ignore cover, some ignore LoS with markerlights, and Riptides just downright suck. With limited vehicles, Tau is the bane of my existence, as if I don't go first, most of my army is wiped.

No matter what army I play, Tau opponents will always crush me.
I haven't played newdar yet, but I'd say they'd thrash me, too.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Tau. Some weapons have ignore cover, some ignore LoS with markerlights, and Riptides just downright suck. With limited vehicles, Tau is the bane of my existence, as if I don't go first, most of my army is wiped.

This. Any army with excessive ignores cover, but Tau are the undisputed kings if it. See, my problem is that I try to play a tactical game.

> How can I draw fire with crappy unit to expose opponents to my good units?
> Lookofor best avenues of approach
> Utilize cover to gain ground

Then after I have had my butt handed to me I remember that Tau shooting doesn't give a gak about silly things like BRB shooting limitations/restrictions, cover means dick and I can't draw them out because they are Tau.

Hell if I play smart, I can best eldar so long as it isn't serpent or WK spam. Tau laughs at your attempts to out play them because they out-special rules you.

Tau, i play iyanden and i loathe tau with the intensity and fire of a thousand suns.

My gaming group hasn't brought many Tau or Eldar, I don't get to play them that often so maybe if I lost to them, I haven't thought that I just keep getting steam rolled by them but I do know that they have been good games.

Is it that everyone tries to out shoot the Tau and it doesn't work? I don't know what it is like to be a dakka heavy army seeing as my range revolves around 24" so I go in for CC.

I can imagine the swiftness of the Eldar would get quite annoying. I have an Eldar detachment that I sometimes use with my GKs that has a Jetseer with 2 squads of Jetbikes and a Wave Serpent full of fire dragons and it has been a particular effective detachment for me. I do wonder how my GK would stand against a full Eldar army.

The Eldar, of course. It's the fact that Wave Serpents get a 3++ cover save at all times without losing any of their effectiveness against my FMCs, and that Wraithknights are basically immune to every model I put on the board.

It used to be Tau, but in 7th edition I have slowly learned how to get the upper hand on them. It's never fun or easy, but they are no longer the unholy terror of old.

Re: subject line

Playing as CSM-

Double riptide + suit spam
Necron flyers
Tyranid flyers

Tau Player, I also not a great player.

Necrons crush me. The only person who plays them turns his lists up to hyper competitive mode. So I always have 6 Wraiths with their 3++ wipping my army.

My friend with CSM does very well against me. I think we are tied.

I wipe regular Space Marines off the table. I wipe GK off the table. Haven't played much else to be honest.