D-weapons, multiple wounds, and saves

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**Spellbound**

On the D-weapon chart, most of the results cause the attack to do D3 wounds rather than 1. These still allow cover and invul saves (rolling a 6 basically kills what you're shooting at, so I'm not worried about it right now).

When making saves, do you make a save versus the attack, or versus the wounds/hull points themselves? A lot of locals were playing it that you make a save, and if failed suffer the full D3 wounds, but I think that's just because they play WHFB, in which that is the system for cannons and bolt throwers and such that shoot at monsters. It works for WHFB because those attacks roll to wound, which you save against, and then they cause multiple wounds once/if they've successfully wounded.

A D-weapon shot doesn't roll to wound, it rolls on a chart, and the chart causes multiple wounds to happen. In 40k, you save against wounds, so I imagine you would roll saves for each of the wounds generated by the chart, rather than rolling once and suffering the full blow after, correct?

It seems to me this is good for large things, but bad for small ones. A chapter master trying to make an iron halo save, for example, now has to make several instead of 1, and all of them count as S10 for instant death purposes. Sucks for him...

**rigeld2**

Spellbound wrote:
A D-weapon shot doesn't roll to wound, it rolls on a chart, and the chart causes multiple wounds to happen. In 40k, you save against wounds, so I imagine you would roll saves for each of the wounds generated by the chart, rather than rolling once and suffering the full blow after, correct?

Correct.

**Thairne**

Interesting.
So 4 Hits from a D-Weapon would (maybe) result in 4-12 Wounds and therefore cause as many saves. Didn't catch that, ty.

**rigeld2**

Thairne wrote:
Interesting.
So 4 Hits from a D-Weapon would (maybe) result in 4-12 Wounds and therefore cause as many saves. Didn't catch that, ty.

For clarification - on a single model, yes.

But if a blast causes hits on 4 models, you resolve each hit individually on the closest guy. First hit rolls a 1, nothing. Second hit rolls a 2 for one wound, passes cover. Third hit rolls a 6 for 10 wounds, dude is removed and the rest of the wounds are lost. 4th hit resolved on the next dude.

**BlackTalos**

rigeld2 wrote:
Second hit rolls a 2 for one wound, passes cover.

But that's the question: Does he roll 1 cover save (for the hit that may cause 3 wounds)?

Or does he need to roll 3 cover saves, because the 2 rolled a 5 on the D3?

**Spellbound**

THAT model rolls three cover saves.

The D-weapon chart is rolled per MODEL hit. Then that model suffers the number of wounds specified by the D weapon chart.

A blast which covers two infantry models cannot cause 24 wounds to the unit on several rolls of 6's.

**Desubot**

So what happens with look out sirs?

**BlackTalos**

So this would apply in the same way as Instant Death on a Gargantuan creature:

If the D3 is 6, you need to roll saves 3 times?

I always thought that you rolled your save / invun / cover once for the automatic wound, and then roll the D3 to find out how many you actually loose?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
From "Take saves & Remove Casualties"

The model gets to make a saving throw, if it has one. If it fails, reduce that model's Wounds by 1.

Where the Orange part, for Destroyer weapons, becomes "causes it to loose D3 Wounds instead of 1".

So:

BlackTalos wrote:The model gets to make a saving throw, if it has one. If it fails, reduce that model's Wounds by D3 Wounds instead of 1.

if the D3 is a 6, the model looses 3 Wounds if it fails it's 1 Save?

**Kangodo**

No, not quite.
Non-vehicle - Seriously Wounded: The model suffers a hit that wounds automatically and causes it to lose D3 Wounds instead of 1.

So he shoots.
He hits.
He rolls a 3 on the D3 (please stop saying a 6, it's confusing)
You lose three wounds, but you can make three invulnerable saves.

That's how I understand it.

**BlackTalos**

I think i am convincing myself even more by reading the RaW:
D weapons is an automatic wound (which is what is allocated), but that 1 automatic wound "causes it to loose D3 Wounds instead of 1".

you are not "causing D3 wounds"
you are "causes it to loose D3 Wounds instead of 1".

Which is the "reduce that model's Wounds by 1" from the Saves rule.

So:
The model gets to make a saving throw, if it has one. If it fails, reduce that model's Wounds by D3 Wounds instead of 1.

**Spellbound**

Ahhh now that you said the actual rule it reminded me why this was an issue in the first place.

It's because it says you suffer A wound that causes you to lose D3 instead of 1. Did you suffer a single wound, and save vs that single wound, and then apply the effects (or don't) after you've failed your saving throws, or do you find out how many wounds are going to be lost and then roll?

The first way is going to be easier on a multi-model unit. Fewer dice to roll, less worrying about who took how many wounds and needs to make how many saves.

The latter really kind of screws infantry, because most models are going to have to pass 2 or 3 saves to stay alive, rather than just 1.

**BlackTalos**

I also think it is the latter, simply because of how Instant death works:

If you are allocated 1 wound with Instant death, fail the save and you loose "infinity" Wounds, until you are at 0

On Gargantuan, instead of loosing "infinity" after failing the armour save, they loose D3.

Going by that, it does seem that D-Weapons are "the same" (RaW and intent)

**Spellbound**

D weapons don't cause instant death. They count as S10 for the purposes of determining if something suffers instant death.

**BlackTalos**

No, i am comparing the 2 rules as they seem to be worded in the same way and work the same way: Additional wounds after you have failed (passed) your save

**JinxDragon**

I've always considered it bad terminology to have a process in which "Wounds" are resolved by and a Characteristic which informs you how many "Wounds" are left on the Model.