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Holy Please don't bypass the language filter like this. Reds8n , no ones cares.
The rest of us just want talk tactics, please take your petty crap elsewhere.

Meanwhile, back on topic, I'm having trouble against Tau as a Necron player.
Tau players, reveal your soft blue underbellies to me.

 vipoid wrote:
Dark Eldar:

- Vehicles. With the massive nerf to dark lances, destroying vehicles at range is now a real problem. And, it's not like I have any high-rate of fire weapons to strip hull points instead. If the enemy is using 1-2 vehicles I can probably cope (just), but any sort of transport spam and I might as well be putting on a light show.

- T3 spam - most notably Tau Firewarriors and IG. Seems an odd weakness, but there it is. Poison is terrible at taking down T3 guys. Although, the problem is more that both of these can kill my vehicles far faster than I can kill them.

- MCs. Not all MCs, but a lot of the current ones. Poison really isn't useful against MCs with 5-6 wounds and 2+ saves. And, even against 3+ saves, you're using a hell of a lot of firepower against something that continues to operate at full capacity until you take its very last wound. Now, against some MCs that's not so bad, but against something like a Riptide...

- Fliers. Remember those decent-strength, high-rate-of-fire weapons that don't exist? Yeah, I'm glad I don't have them or else I might actually have a chance against fliers.

- Tau. Tau have far superior firepower, at better range - and pretty good maneuverability too. Although, it's hard to outmaneuver them anyway - when they have so many weapons that ignore cover or fire without LoS. I don't mind being a glass cannon race, but at the moment I feel more like a glass water pistol.

I also play DE and agree with most of this, but things to add/amend:
- LOW AV vehicles, as in AV 12 and under. DE are great at taking out high AV vehicles with darklances/blasters/haywire, but when it really comes down to it, a rhino isn't that much easier to drop than a land raider... and an opponent can field a handful of low AV vehicles for any one land raider.

- LOW toughness anything. Same issue as the low AV vehicles. We wound everything equally with all of the poison weapons, so more targets just means less effective shooting.

- Mid-range strength shooting. We don't have any high volume S6-7 weapons and these are really the most effective weapons against the fragile raiders/venoms/ravagers. Opponents with high volumes of these weapons on low AV/low toughness platforms are the worst matchups for the DE. For this reason, Eldar and Tau are usually the most difficult battles.

- Kill point missions. Most semi-competitive or better DE armies offer a ton of kill points and more often than not, I end up needing to table my opponent to win. DE are probably one of the armies most likely to table an opponent though (with a good first turn and tactics), so these missions seem to go 50/50 for me.

- Flyers. I second the above. DE don't have much of an answer to it other than attempt to avoid them and/or hope to get lucky with a few pot shots.

On the flip side of that, DE are the bane of any low quantity/high value army. I'm thinking of things like Grey Knights and land raider based assault armies. I find that the DE eat them for lunch.

Have you tried AV13 spam?

They call me Griff wrote:

I also play DE and agree with most of this, but things to add/amend:
- LOW AV vehicles, as in AV 12 and under. DE are great at taking out high AV vehicles with darklances/blasters/haywire, but when it really comes down to it, a rhino isn't that much easier to drop than a land raider... and an opponent can field a handful of low AV vehicles for any one land raider.

I agree - though I think it applies to any vehicle spamming - regardless of AV. Even against AV14, Lances still aren't great because they lack both reliability (need a 4+ to penetrate, and a 6 to explode), and number of shots.

They call me Griff wrote:
- LOW toughness anything. Same issue as the low AV vehicles. We wound everything equally with all of the poison weapons, so more targets just means less effective shooting.

I wish our poison weapons were S3...

They call me Griff wrote:

- Mid-range strength shooting. We don't have any high volume S6-7 weapons and these are really the most effective weapons against the fragile raiders/venoms/ravagers. Opponents with high volumes of these weapons on low AV/low toughness platforms are the worst matchups for the DE. For this reason, Eldar and Tau are usually the most difficult battles.

Agreed. Although, I'd be tempted to add quite a few others to that list - IG I really struggle to deal with (massed autocannons, multilasers, T3 bodies and various other stuff), same with GKs (Psyfulmen Dreads and psycannons make short work of our vehicles). But, I suspect Tau and Eldar are probably the worst.

They call me Griff wrote:

- Kill point missions. Most semi-competitive or better DE armies offer a ton of kill points and more often than not, I end up needing to table my opponent to win. DE are probably one of the armies most likely to table an opponent though (with a good first turn and tactics), so these missions seem to go 50/50 for me.

Likewise. Any time we play kill points I feel like I'm starting the game on the back foot. Generally, I have to annihilate the enemy to win these missions (which I rarely manage).

They call me Griff wrote:

On the flip side of that, DE are the bane of any low quantity/high value army. I'm thinking of things like Grey Knights and land raider based assault armies. I find that the DE eat them for lunch.

Yeah, I enjoy playing against any low-model count armies - Paladins, Nob Bikers etc.

In general, I can slowly take them apart while they try to close, and they just don't have the resources to come after all of my units.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

Rude- inappropriate. It wasn't a personal attack, but it wasn't a great approach to the post either. BringOnBones was using mockery related to a sound logical point.

The post you responded to had just as valid a point as the one I responded to. Take that whichever way you want. Also, i find it ironic that you call that post rude, given your next sentiment:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
I can't be asked to reply to the trivial sewer water that forms the rest of your response, and despite the implication you feel obliged to continue and let this burn in your first part on "diffusing arguments" I have no wish to continue this pointless offtopic exchange.

Yes, i expect it is hard to come up with a response, when your own post betrays your rudeness and double-standards.

Now, if only there was a way for you to dodge having to reply...

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Welcome to my ignore list.

Ah, there we go.

Everyone is going to have to get back on topic and follow the rules here - particularly Rule #1.

Thanks!

 vipoid wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
'My army is bad because I refuse to use the good options in the codex'

@ The guy who runs footcrons.

Indeed, what a horrible person I am for not playing my army the "right way".

Truly people like me are the real Nazis of the gaming world.

>Admits I don't play my army the right way
>Cries when my army doesn't work

Oh my god
A mod just said to knock that crap off,
and the very next post tries to start it up again?
Seriously?!
Ugh.

*desperately tries to steer topic back towards tactics discussion*

Regarding AV13 spam, well, I could throw in a bunch of Ghost Arks, but that's not going to do much against triple Riptide.
Yes, I've got a few Tesla Destructors to use against them, but by the time they're in range they're probably going to be in bad shape (stupid ignore cover weapons).
Wraiths+D.Lord can barely make it into combat thanks to combined overwatch, and sudden Broadsides end up wrecking everything else not being babysat.
I'm not sure what I could be doing better here, but I guess I'll give AV13 Wall a try?

Unfortunately, I fear Necrons are rather lacking with ways to deal with MCs - especially at range.

Tesla Destructors might help, but that 2+ save will really blunt their offensive. Same goes for trying to mass gauss fire against them.

Likewise, unless you get really lucky with rending, Deathmarks probably won't take one down either (though they might be able to get a wounded one - especially if joined by a despair tek).

5 Destruction Crypteks is probably your best bet, but that's an expensive unit and I think you'll struggle to protect it long enough to do its job.

Otherwise, you're down to trying to kill them in combat (a dubious goal at the best of times) with wraiths and/or MSS.

I've been having issues with Eldar lately i play orkz and been gearing towards the whole speed freak route its just their bikes can move so much farther then mine XD

Something I find interesting is when you switch armies after playing one for a while - and suddenly a lot of your most hated units aren't a problem anymore.

E.g. my nids used to really hate fighting GKs (this was back in 5th - I haven't played them in ages) - force weapons were a major pain, especially when they could strike at I6.

However, when I switched to Necrons or DE, suddenly those force weapons look a lot less threatening. Neither army has many multiple wound models, and I6 doesn't matter when my models are I2. Likewise, with my DE, I'm basically resigned to losing any combat I participate in, so even then I6 was a pretty minor concern.

After playing a game yesterday night, I realise that my Orks struggle against MC. In particular the Wraithknight (I played agaisnt Eldar).

I already post in the tactics section to ask opinion on how to deal with them, and people seem to think it's simple since you have PK hidden in all the squad. Just melee it to death was the plan.

Don't see any problems. As an ork, you're supposed to have rokkits and powerklaws everywhere. Problems with mobility? Yep, footslogging doesn't work since 6-th. Use bikers and transports.

Warboss with power klaw wounds them on a 2+. Just get him into combat. Blitz forward and whichever unit is able to get close, make sure your warboss disembarks and gets in that unit as well.

Didn't work at all... they were 2 just blasting away with the 3 TL (due to scater laser) strenght 'whatever too strong'' small blast. Never made it to melee, not even with bikes lol.

3. I only have one weakness I know of with my Nurgle forces - the combination of templates and high strength AT. (Probably one of my strongest armies actually.)
Reason: I use Nurglings + GUO. The templates wreck the nurglings and high strength AT can whittle down the GUO.
4. My Harlequin KT seems to struggle against everything. I haven't had a win with them yet lol.
Reason: They're always outnumbered and never seem to be able to get into CC.

Wow, now there was not something which I thought I would see, as my Nurgle has a huge weakness, and I don't see how it's possible to win vs Eldar.
We have on our side a whole army which cannot shoot (Soulgrinder apart) and cannot run at all.
Eldar have lots of shooting, and the ability to run after shooting, which means each turn you cannot close the gap to them. They can just keep you at a nice range where you cannot charge them, and they can keep on shooting you.

Yes you can DS, but this will not get you a win if they just move everything away in different directions.
You then also have wave serpernts, which are such a pain.

Now I'm not saying that Chaos Daemons cannot beat Eldar, just Nurgle Daemons cannot.

Deathwing - numbers

kingleir wrote:
Deathwing - numbers

I think you misspelled 'plasma'.

chocmushroom wrote:

3. I only have one weakness I know of with my Nurgle forces - the combination of templates and high strength AT. (Probably one of my strongest armies actually.)
Reason: I use Nurglings + GUO. The templates wreck the nurglings and high strength AT can whittle down the GUO.
4. My Harlequin KT seems to struggle against everything. I haven't had a win with them yet lol.
Reason: They're always outnumbered and never seem to be able to get into CC.

Wow, now there was not something which I thought I would see, as my Nurgle has a huge weakness, and I don't see how it's possible to win vs Eldar.
We have on our side a whole army which cannot shoot (Soulgrinder apart) and cannot run at all.
Eldar have lots of shooting, and the ability to run after shooting, which means each turn you cannot close the gap to them. They can just keep you at a nice range where you cannot charge them, and they can keep on shooting you.

Yes you can DS, but this will not get you a win if they just move everything away in different directions.
You then also have wave serpernts, which are such a pain.

Now I'm not saying that Chaos Daemons cannot beat Eldar, just Nurgle Daemons cannot.

I haven't fought Eldar with my Nurgle army yet. I've only faced - IG Horde, Orky trukk boyz and gunline Space Marines. From what I've seen of my own performance with the Nurgle Daemons, I can understand how Eldar would be problematic. I was only commenting that out of the games I've played and with my armies, my Nurgle force has the best w/r. Ymmv.

 vipoid wrote:
Unfortunately, I fear Necrons are rather lacking with ways to deal with MCs - especially at range.

Tesla Destructors might help, but that 2+ save will really blunt their offensive. Same goes for trying to mass gauss fire against them.

Likewise, unless you get really lucky with rending, Deathmarks probably won't take one down either (though they might be able to get a wounded one - especially if joined by a despair tek).

5 Destruction Crypteks is probably your best bet, but that's an expensive unit and I think you'll struggle to protect it long enough to do its job.

Otherwise, you're down to trying to kill them in combat (a dubious goal at the best of times) with wraiths and/or MSS.

What about a Triarch Stalker? Expensive, but it can help one pile wounds onto an MC. A friend of mine plays CSM+Daemons and for killing Princes and such, this has worked for me.

I agree that MCs are hard to deal with though, since we lack affordable high Strength guns as you've said. Of our choices though I really like the Stalker.

Drakmord wrote:

What about a Triarch Stalker? Expensive, but it can help one pile wounds onto an MC. A friend of mine plays CSM+Daemons and for killing Princes and such, this has worked for me.

Well, I suspect it will depend on the MC in question, and what you have to back it up with (and, how much has LoS and range to the MC).

You're right though, it might well help.

My concern with things like that though is that I always worry about relying on an expensive vehicle to take an enemy down - it seems like runs the risk of becoming too much of a linchpin. But, that's more to do with my personal playstyle/preference.

kingleir wrote:
Deathwing - everything that can shoot better than a ripper swarm or cc better than a cultist

ftfy