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Advance: move up to your Movement in inches, including through terrain.

Run/Charge: move at twice your Movement in inches. May not move through terrain. If any of your models end up in base to base contact with the enemy then it is a charge. You may shoot with assault or pistol weapons at that unit in the shooting phase, they may shoot you with snapshots.

Done.

Delete the following rules:
Current terrain movement rules.
Run
Turbo-boost
Thrust Move
Fleet
Moving Flat Out
Fleet
Slow and purposeful (at the least the movement portion of it)

 changerofways wrote:
If initiative affected movement that would be cool

I am actually trying to do that right now in making my own rules for 40K. Asked for some feed back and a few people said it's not a good idea. Me and my son are going to try it out and see how it goes and what needs to be modified.

Daedleh wrote:Delete the following rules:
Current terrain movement rules.
Run
Fleet
Moving Flat Out
Fleet

All of those are the same thing (two of them literally), except for moving through terrain, which I can't imagine would go over well if you just threw that out the window.

And even then, this is hardly the encyclopedia britannica we're throwing out. You just learn the rules for run (no shooting, +D6" movement, and then make tiny adjustments for fleet and flat-out). The movement rules are already pretty simple, to be honest.

Movement stats made sense when fit into a stat profile and made movement a blast!

Makes the game easier for newbies, makes the stat block more conclusive, and is just overall great. Whoo, 2nd!

Movement rules are fine right now. There are gona be a ton of problems if you add different movement characteristec. For example, currently every unit's price includes it's movement speed. You'll have to reprice every unit.

 koooaei wrote:
Movement rules are fine right now. There are gona be a ton of problems if you add different movement characteristec. For example, currently every unit's price includes it's movement speed. You'll have to reprice every unit.

Yeah, because the game is so well balanced now, that would be terrible


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedleh wrote:
Advance: move up to your Movement in inches, including through terrain.

Run/Charge: move at twice your Movement in inches. May not move through terrain. If any of your models end up in base to base contact with the enemy then it is a charge. You may shoot with assault or pistol weapons at that unit in the shooting phase, they may shoot you with snapshots.

Done.

Delete the following rules:
Current terrain movement rules.
Run
Turbo-boost
Thrust Move
Fleet
Moving Flat Out
Fleet
Slow and purposeful (at the least the movement portion of it)

To me it's just simpler to remove the multiple opportunities to move and shove all the movement back in the movement phase where it belongs.

Instead of:

You can move in the movement phase, the rate is dependent on what type of unit you are and what terrain you are in.

You can move in the shooting phase, the rate is either random or fixed according to a table based on what unit you are and also quite possibly modified by special rules (fleet, bounding leap, slow and purposeful, acrobatic, probably others in other codices I don't know about, some warlord traits as well).

You can move again in the assault phase, the rate is random according to a table based on what unit you are and also quite possibly modified by special rules.

Simplify to:
You can move in the movement phase, either walk, run or charge. The distances for each are your M, Mx2, Mx2 respectively.

Then put your difficult terrain rules on top of that.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
Not in 40k as it stands now, but in theory yes. Movement stats were fine, and added some tactical depth. Really though, 40k's entire turn stuff is outdated and clunky now. For instance, you shouldn't need to "Assault" to engage something in combat, you should either be able to charge it (getting a bonus if so) or advance into base to base. Assault troops could get something like a bonus to charging, or just faster movement in general. However that might make assault overpowering again (imagine something with movement of 8 or 12!).

I like the way you call the current system outdated and clunky but what you propose is more similar to the 2nd edition system of movement from 16 years ago, lol.

But yeah, I haven't liked 40k's movement system since I first read it when 3rd edition was released.

I mostly played 2nd edition, that's probably why

I really like WM/H movement though. Double speed for runs, Speed +3 for charges (and need to move at least 3" to get the bonus), you can move into melee range to engage without a bonus.

40k style could either give fast troops (e.g. Assault Marines) a higher base speed or a bonus to charge ranges.

 Daedleh wrote:
Advance: move up to your Movement in inches, including through terrain.

Run/Charge: move at twice your Movement in inches. May not move through terrain. If any of your models end up in base to base contact with the enemy then it is a charge. You may shoot with assault or pistol weapons at that unit in the shooting phase, they may shoot you with snapshots.

Done.

Delete the following rules:
Current terrain movement rules.
Run
Turbo-boost
Thrust Move
Fleet
Moving Flat Out
Fleet
Slow and purposeful (at the least the movement portion of it)

I would suggest making run/charge only 1.5x your movement, but giving assault units (Genestealers, Wyches, Assault Marines, etc.) higher than average speed stats. Tweak transports to allow assaults (Assault units within 1/2 speed). Make Terrain slow units by half. Move through cover would simply not be slowed by terrain. Add in "Flight" Rule (for skimmers, Jetbikes, and jump infantry): Model ignores terrain, other models when moving. You have now eliminated most of the entry for:

Bikes
Beasts
Jump Infantry
etc.

scimitar wrote:
In fantasy, you move by looking at your movement speed on the unit and then double it if you want to run/march.

In 40k, you lookup the move value for your unit type, roll a d6 to run, maybe reroll that d6 if you have fleet or turbo-boost if you are a bike and then another 2d6 in the assault phase for jetpack infantry. Then for vehicles you lookup if you can move either 6 or 12, then another 6 inches for flatout, unless you a walker who rolls a d6 or a fast vehicle who moves 12 unless you are also a skimmer in which case you go 18. Finally you have flyers, superheavy flyers, flying monstrous creatures and flying gargantuan creatures featuring minimum movement distances and limited pivots.

Its crazy that the same outcome basically is so complex in 40k compared to fantasy . But as others have said. Once you learn the current 40k rules movement really isn't all that hard to remember and it certainly isn't the worste part of the rules.

Teaching a friend how to play 40k recently really made me realise just how confusing all the rules are when you just sit there and run through the "basics" with them. It takes a decent amount of time and still doesn't touch on special rules or things like challenges, and yet leaves the newbie spinning and confused.

It definatly does seem to be a big mess but once you know the rules it's not all that hard to make them work. So i think movement stats isn't the issue here it looks like the whole ruleset needs a bit of an overhaul.

My 2 cents.

I would like a movement stat, but more importantly I would like to see a lot of the randomness be removed from movement. There is no real suspense in wondering how far my troops will run.

 flukezor wrote:

scimitar wrote:
In fantasy, you move by looking at your movement speed on the unit and then double it if you want to run/march.

In 40k, you lookup the move value for your unit type, roll a d6 to run, maybe reroll that d6 if you have fleet or turbo-boost if you are a bike and then another 2d6 in the assault phase for jetpack infantry. Then for vehicles you lookup if you can move either 6 or 12, then another 6 inches for flatout, unless you a walker who rolls a d6 or a fast vehicle who moves 12 unless you are also a skimmer in which case you go 18. Finally you have flyers, superheavy flyers, flying monstrous creatures and flying gargantuan creatures featuring minimum movement distances and limited pivots.

Its crazy that the same outcome basically is so complex in 40k compared to fantasy . But as others have said. Once you learn the current 40k rules movement really isn't all that hard to remember and it certainly isn't the worste part of the rules.

Teaching a friend how to play 40k recently really made me realise just how confusing all the rules are when you just sit there and run through the "basics" with them. It takes a decent amount of time and still doesn't touch on special rules or things like challenges, and yet leaves the newbie spinning and confused.

It definatly does seem to be a big mess but once you know the rules it's not all that hard to make them work. So i think movement stats isn't the issue here it looks like the whole ruleset needs a bit of an overhaul.

My 2 cents.

I don't think it would hurt to implement a system similar to Bolt Action where you order a squad to do 1 of 6 things each turn. Even if you kept the complexity within those orders, it would make a hell of a lot more sense when you're trying to explain the game to new players.

For reference, in Bolt Action, once it is determined that a squad is going to do something, you place a dice next to the unit stating what order you've given it...

1 Fire
2 Advance (move and fire)
3 Run (move faster but don't fire, this is also the order you use if you want to charge)
4 Ambush (overwatch)
5 Rally
6 Down (go to ground)

If nothing else, it would make it a crap load easier to hold intro games, lol.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 flukezor wrote:

scimitar wrote:
In fantasy, you move by looking at your movement speed on the unit and then double it if you want to run/march.

In 40k, you lookup the move value for your unit type, roll a d6 to run, maybe reroll that d6 if you have fleet or turbo-boost if you are a bike and then another 2d6 in the assault phase for jetpack infantry. Then for vehicles you lookup if you can move either 6 or 12, then another 6 inches for flatout, unless you a walker who rolls a d6 or a fast vehicle who moves 12 unless you are also a skimmer in which case you go 18. Finally you have flyers, superheavy flyers, flying monstrous creatures and flying gargantuan creatures featuring minimum movement distances and limited pivots.

Its crazy that the same outcome basically is so complex in 40k compared to fantasy . But as others have said. Once you learn the current 40k rules movement really isn't all that hard to remember and it certainly isn't the worste part of the rules.

Teaching a friend how to play 40k recently really made me realise just how confusing all the rules are when you just sit there and run through the "basics" with them. It takes a decent amount of time and still doesn't touch on special rules or things like challenges, and yet leaves the newbie spinning and confused.

It definatly does seem to be a big mess but once you know the rules it's not all that hard to make them work. So i think movement stats isn't the issue here it looks like the whole ruleset needs a bit of an overhaul.

My 2 cents.

I don't think it would hurt to implement a system similar to Bolt Action where you order a squad to do 1 of 6 things each turn. Even if you kept the complexity within those orders, it would make a hell of a lot more sense when you're trying to explain the game to new players.

For reference, in Bolt Action, once it is determined that a squad is going to do something, you place a dice next to the unit stating what order you've given it...

1 Fire
2 Advance (move and fire)
3 Run (move faster but don't fire, this is also the order you use if you want to charge)
4 Ambush (overwatch)
5 Rally
6 Down (go to ground)

If nothing else, it would make it a crap load easier to hold intro games, lol.

Thats actually a pretty cool system, and yeah would totally make intro games much much easier. It took about 4 games and 4 kill team matches to get my friend a decent grasp of how to play. This is also without reading the rules or codex, what isn't helping anyone to be honest