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Mantic posted Dranor yesterday on a banner on their official webpage. When they post a background less version I will swap it out.

Nice, clean sculpt.

Looking at the greens, I think I find the painted versions iffy because I don't like the paintjob, especially on the faces. Nothing wrong with them but it made them look older than they should because of the contrast. For comparison:

 CptJake wrote:

NTRabbit wrote:


Hard plastic also doesn't work for a boardgame, because you can't cast them in one piece and we know the distributors just won't carry a game where you need to assemble your minis, hence PVC.

Amazingly enough, I've had boardgames with hard plastic figures, some of which required assembly, I bought at a big retail store...



ANd I recently got the new Battlelore, which though softer plastic, does have a couple figures needing assembly.

Gone are the days when Milton Bradley can make a print run of 250,000 copies of a giant boardgame and expect to sell it on their brand name alone; also gone are the days when Avalon Hill can print 40,000 copies of Squad Leader without batting an eyelash (the current leader in hex and counter wargames, GMT, does print runs of 3000 copies).

 judgedoug wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

NTRabbit wrote:


Hard plastic also doesn't work for a boardgame, because you can't cast them in one piece and we know the distributors just won't carry a game where you need to assemble your minis, hence PVC.

Amazingly enough, I've had boardgames with hard plastic figures, some of which required assembly, I bought at a big retail store...



ANd I recently got the new Battlelore, which though softer plastic, does have a couple figures needing assembly.

Gone are the days when Milton Bradley can make a print run of 250,000 copies of a giant boardgame and expect to sell it on their brand name alone; also gone are the days when Avalon Hill can print 40,000 copies of Squad Leader without batting an eyelash (the current leader in hex and counter wargames, GMT, does print runs of 3000 copies).

I don't disagree, but I submit it has more to do with the economics of the situation dictating what materials and manufacturing techniques can pay off than 'Multi-part = bad'.

I also disliked the paint job, but find the minis to be amazing. Same issue as the werewolves for most, as well as a bunch of stuff GE had done (minotaurs, anyone?).

 tgmoore wrote:


Mantic posted Dranor yesterday on a banner on their official webpage. When they post a background less version I will swap it out.

Reminds me of one of the LotR Legolases.

 CptJake wrote:

I don't disagree, but I submit it has more to do with the economics of the situation dictating what materials and manufacturing techniques can pay off than 'Multi-part = bad'.

What figures were multipart in Battlemasters? I mean, I have access to two sets, so lemme access my brain - cavalry were rider and horse.... I think the Ogre was a front and back. The castle, cannon's wheels... I think that's it? Plugging the models onto their bases doesn't really count, I wouldn't think.

But! While I also don't mind multipart minis, have you ever seen the cries and whines echo forth from Boardgamegeek whenever an anticipated board game gets released that has *gasp* assembly required?
I saw some dude playing Dreadball with figs without arms because he didn't want to assemble them. *edit* And that reminds me two weeks ago someone sold an unused copy of Dreadball at a local game-swap day because he's a board gamer and didn't want to assemble the figures - that was his reason. He expected them to be one piece. So my brother bought his copy of Dreadball for like twenty bucks.
Someone spent a solid week whining on the Myth boards on boardgamegeek that a free figure in Myth that was KS exclusive to backers only was going to be in metal and not plastic and didn't care that it wasn't economically viable to make a plastic figure for only a few hundred people, he just didn't want to have to deal with a metal figure and it wouldn't match his plastic figures and wah wah wahh
Seriously, board gamers are fussy. FUSSY.

I suppose the situation is that 1) boardgamers have a lot of games. Imagine that every $20-$40 you spent on the hobby resulted in a new game, and that's how quickly they accrue. And 2) boardgames are a social experience - ideally you want to have read the rules online while you're waiting for it to arrive, pop the box open and punch out some cardboard, and then have a nice evening with you and 5 other friends. High-quality miniatures only have a value for those that appreciate them, or want to paint them - otherwise they're just another hurdle that has to be surmounted before you can bring it to the table!

That said - yes, they can get extremely whiny! And I'm sure that's why Mars Attacks got so many more retail orders, and why Mantic's keen to stick to board game plastic for these things. You're never talking about the true mass market either way, but I imagine the potential boardgame audience is 4 or 5 times as much as the tabletop. If they can truly become a new HeroQuest for a new age, would be quite the thing!

Bioptic wrote:
I suppose the situation is that 1) boardgamers have a lot of games. Imagine that every $20-$40 you spent on the hobby resulted in a new game, and that's how quickly they accrue. And 2) boardgames are a social experience - ideally you want to have read the rules online while you're waiting for it to arrive, pop the box open and punch out some cardboard, and then have a nice evening with you and 5 other friends. High-quality miniatures only have a value for those that appreciate them, or want to paint them - otherwise they're just another hurdle that has to be surmounted before you can bring it to the table!

And let's not forget to mention there are those board gamers that absolutely despise miniatures and will either a) only play games with - or b) replace a game's miniatures with - colored wooden blocks.

Bioptic wrote:
That said - yes, they can get extremely whiny! And I'm sure that's why Mars Attacks got so many more retail orders, and why Mantic's keen to stick to board game plastic for these things. You're never talking about the true mass market either way, but I imagine the potential boardgame audience is 4 or 5 times as much as the tabletop. If they can truly become a new HeroQuest for a new age, would be quite the thing!

Oh, no doubt. I think most gaming stores make most of their money from the huge huge huge mainstream boardgames like Settlers, Pandemic, Smallword, Cards Against Humanity, etc. I would love to see Mantic have a HeroQuest-style game but do you think they have the ability to sell a half a million copies of a game over several years? We know Dreadball has had about 30,000-35,000 copies made in almost two years... Dungeon Saga would have to do 10x better _and_ get distributed in Toys R Us, Wal-Mart, Target, and whatever UK high street stores in order to have even a smidgen of the name recognition that HeroQuest once had. And while that'd be awesome I don't see Mantic being able to do that for many, many years.

Always wondered why Reaper didn't do a dungeon game to go with their bones pieces. Seem ready made for such an endeavour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also wonder if the chaps that did the card sci fi terrain and about to do fantasy will be compatible?

What Reaper really needs to do is use their old Warlord ruleset with all their Bones stuff. Even modify it into a skirmish game if need be. I thought it could be adapted to dungeon crawling as well.

I think a lot of the anticipation here (for me at least) is that this is still being built on the foundations of the previous Dwarf King's Hold games. They're pretty solid rulesets. Some parts may be a bit clunkier than I like, but things flow smooth and quickly. My kids get it, and to me that's a pretty good sign when I'm not having to constantly re- explain everything.

There's also a bit of that Mantic Sweet Spot Syndrome getting me hyped. While most previous sweet spots were around 150, you tended to get quite a bit for what you spent- on average 40+ figures of varying shapes and sizes (and a fair assortment of unique sculpts), terrain, scenery accessories, expansions...

I am quite confident that we'll see something similar here as well.

I'm wondering what they'll have for the big show stopping big bad monster, like the Gargoyle from HeroQuest or all the other big critters dungeon crawlers seem to have. A dragon possibly?

 judgedoug wrote:
Oh, no doubt. I think most gaming stores make most of their money from the huge huge huge mainstream boardgames like Settlers, Pandemic, Smallword, Cards Against Humanity, etc. I would love to see Mantic have a HeroQuest-style game but do you think they have the ability to sell a half a million copies of a game over several years? We know Dreadball has had about 30,000-35,000 copies made in almost two years... Dungeon Saga would have to do 10x better _and_ get distributed in Toys R Us, Wal-Mart, Target, and whatever UK high street stores in order to have even a smidgen of the name recognition that HeroQuest once had. And while that'd be awesome I don't see Mantic being able to do that for many, many years.

Hasbro and the other big players dictate what goes on the shelves of department stores; I think it would be enough of a boon for the game to get onto the shelves of FLGSs that normally don't stock wargaming miniatures, ie practically everything in the Mantic catalogue

All this talk about big-box stores, etc... just reminds me how close our hobby game to broader success. Games like Heroscape were YAY close to doing something incredible, and now i'm perpetually chasing the dragon (so to speak) looking for that "cross-over" game which will help me generate new hobby-game players.

X-wing KIND of does it... Dreadball KIND of does it... Dust KIND of does it... etc.... but we still have yet to have someone throw money at really producing that big cross-over hit.

I asked Reaper about rereleasing Crypt of the Sorcerer/ Caverns of Doom, in all of its paint and play glory at the time of the release of Bones 1. They said they were working with the idea.

I think they might have issues in getting some paints and printing those box sets to be cost effective.

Surly a map and a couple of pages of rules can't be the thing to break the bank.

Worth considering that the overall retail landscape is not what it was when it was the time of Hero Quest and Space Crusade. Would it be healthy for Amazon, Walmart etc to stock this with the inevitable deep discounts further eroding FLGS high street and online sales?

Either way I think this will be Mantics highest KS yet and if they really go for it possibly the highest wargames KS....... The main barrier is that people increasingly realise they can pledge $1 then pay more much later..... So whilst I'll plead guilty to doing that done times on KS I think they need to offer a benefit to people who pledge up front the money for the level.

OK, not the sausagefest I thought... but serious manface going on.

Iain.

Chairman Aeon wrote:
Heroes are a sausagefest. It's not 1985 anymore. I'm out for that reason alone.

Iain.

3 our of 8 heroes in the core box that we know about are female or 37% if you prefer. Female Basilian cleric (haven't seen the scuplt yet), halfling thief, Elf Ranger. One is an asexual reptile "lizardperson"of some sort.

 heartserenade wrote:
Looking at the greens, I think I find the painted versions iffy because I don't like the paintjob, especially on the faces. Nothing wrong with them but it made them look older than they should because of the contrast. For comparison:

Spoiler:

Those look like totally different miniatures than the painted ones. Has the PVC lost a lot of subtly on the original sculpts.

Iain.

 tgmoore wrote:

3 our of 8 heroes in the core box that we know about are female or 37% if you prefer. Female Basilian cleric (haven't seen the scuplt yet), halfling thief, Elf Ranger.

And two others they haven't shown yet.

 tgmoore wrote:
3 our of 8 heroes in the core box that we know about are female or 37% if you prefer. Female Basilian cleric (haven't seen the scuplt yet), halfling thief, Elf Ranger.

Elf Ranger didn't even look female until I saw the "green". Low quality pics made it look like the 4 heroes were all dudes that 13 year old boys* would be playing.

Iain.

* and nothing wrong with letting out your 13 year old boy every once in a while no matter what age and gender you are.

Chairman Aeon wrote:

 tgmoore wrote:
3 our of 8 heroes in the core box that we know about are female or 37% if you prefer. Female Basilian cleric (haven't seen the scuplt yet), halfling thief, Elf Ranger.

Elf Ranger didn't even look female until I saw the "green". Low quality pics made it look like the 4 heroes were all dudes that 13 year old boys* would be playing.

Iain.

* and nothing wrong with letting out your 13 year old boy every once in a while no matter what age and gender you are.

All of this information is contained in this thread regardless of pictures. I respectfully disagree that Madriga (Elf Archer) doesn't look female. But art is very much a matter of personal taste. I see now I will have to buy 2 copies to make up for your dislike of this project.

Chairman Aeon wrote:

Those look like totally different miniatures than the painted ones. Has the PVC lost a lot of subtly on the original sculpts.

Iain.

The painted minis will be resin casts.

She looks female. An ugly one, sadly. But I'm guessing that could be cured by the paintjob.

New picture from facebook (this is a prototype) - I see a Skeleton with a Scythe (I've seen that somewhere before )

 DaveC wrote:
New picture from facebook (this is a prototype) - I see a Skeleton with a Scythe (I've seen that somewhere before )

I know I've still got a box or two of his mates doing duty on the battlefield

Didn't the original Heroquest have skeletons with scythes?

Can't say I've ever picked up any GW skeletons besides the ones in that game.

So since we don't have physical models yet, I made a photoshop study of what I can do to make the face look more feminine. Seems like it could be cured by tweaking the paintjob indeed. My problem with the original paintjob is the eyes are a bit too large, the pupils are like reptile eyes and the line on the cheek is too deep so it makes the figure look older.

Yeah, I'm obsessed with painting female miniature faces.

The boardgamegeek comments made me laugh. I was absolutely addicted to the Myth forums for weeks after I got my copy of that disaster of a game! I *loved* that thread o' nerdrage about the one metal figure in a sea of plastic!

(though admittedly that was a lame choice: tossing one painted metal figure into a box of plastic will all but guarantee that poor metal dude dies a slow death of chips and weird bends)

I doubt I'll back this. I'm not willing to back a mantic PVC kickstarter after being rather disappointed with now deadzone arrived and already having plenty to play and paint. I am interested in the game though and if it turns out well I will pick it up at retail.