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I've played more games of Deadzone since it got Kickstarted than I have of 40k in the past 6 years.
It's a fantastic system with some balance issues. You need to outright ban 2 or 3 models, and a few aren't worth taking. Apart from that it's brilliant and by far the smoothest system released in the past 6 years that I've seen (and I'm the sort who even buys obscure no-name garage company pdfs off Wargames Vault)
Specifically which models?
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Pacific wrote: The problem is these days, every time you read this..
8. What sets Dungeon Saga apart from other dungeon crawlers is the cinematic quality to the action.
..the term has been damaged, and provokes this facial expression from most people reading it:
Oddly (or perhaps not!) I had the same reaction.
Did he throw in "forge your own narrative" when talking about how the same mission played out differently? - On that note, though - so do the D&D/Ravenloft type games play out differently in the same mission each time - that's because the dungeons are randomly generated, and so are the mobs. So, the result is.. you know.
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Paradigm wrote: Yeah, Deadzone is effortlessly cinematic in the true sense of the word.
When there's a huge mutated alien one square from clearing the board and scoring a couple of points, and a lowly human steps up at point-blank range, opens up with laser fire and somehow downs the monstrosity, that's cinematic. (even moreso when he did it again next turn!)
When a sniper needs to move but also has a perfect shot, so he pulls out a pistol and puts a bullet between the eyes of a rebel while darting across a rooftop, that's cinematic.
When a giant turtle-dinosaur goes mental and takes out half a squad in one round, that is cinematic!
Any minis game can be "cinematic". It just requires the imagi-nation to be active. Though really, none are actually cinematic in the true sense of the word.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/31 21:06:44
I think Plague Swarms are usually the main complaints with Deadzone, plus the special character mercenaries should be more reserved for special games / events and campaigns - They tend to be very killy indeed in one-off games.
The Rebs team do have a harder time of it all (apparently intentionally).
Aside from that, the last major issue I'm aware of with Deadzone is people taking the mick with combos of multiple command actions and several mawbeasts.
Oh my.. the silhouette in the latest blog post... is that a not-drizzt? By thunder they better not! Those dirty temptresses I was gonna heavily consider skipping this one!
Rordin - Dwarf (EDIT: ok it didn't resize so spoiler tag it is)
Spoiler:
With that in mind, when we launch on Monday we will do so with just one Pledge Level – the Absolute Depravity level. This is to make it really easy to identify which is the sweet spot pledge level that will get all the cool freebies unlocked in it! It will be available for $100.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/01 15:52:10
One pledge level only's been a CoolMiniOrNot staple lately, doubtless because research showed that backers were starting to get quite confused with all of the options! Hopefully it will also limit the backsliding that's been going on.
Another common tactic is to have the base pledge for $100, then another $50 for the 'Big Expansion', which may or may not have additional freebies added in. So you still get your $150 bedrock, but have a reduced level for the more price-sensitive.
GrimDork wrote: Oh my.. the silhouette in the latest blog post... is that a not-drizzt? By thunder they better not! Those dirty temptresses I was gonna heavily consider skipping this one!
Mumblegrumble razzlefrazzle.
Looks like a roughish dual wielding type hero is coming. Keldan.
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squall018 wrote: Is the bottom picture of the old DKH board or prototypes of the new one?
Those are new tiles. There weren't long single square tiles in Dwarf King's Hold.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/01 14:15:33
So, what does this bring that my copy of Descent 2nd doesn't?
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
agnosto wrote: So, what does this bring that my copy of Descent 2nd doesn't?
We must have only one version of a game per genre! This game is based on DKH series which for me plays much faster than Descent. And certainly less counters.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/01 14:19:43
agnosto wrote: So, what does this bring that my copy of Descent 2nd doesn't?
We must have only one version of a game per genre! This game is based on DKH series which for me plays much faster than Descent. And certainly less counters.
Well, my nerd closet does have a maximum capacity, thanks for the added snark.
I do appreciate the actual answer.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
agnosto wrote: So, what does this bring that my copy of Descent 2nd doesn't?
We must have only one version of a game per genre! This game is based on DKH series which for me plays much faster than Descent. And certainly less counters.
Well, my nerd closet does have a maximum capacity, thanks for the added snark.
I do appreciate the actual answer.
No snarkiness intended or implied. I think your question an irrelevant one. Every popular game is followed by similar games. Descent hardly invented the Dungeon crawl genre.
agnosto wrote: So, what does this bring that my copy of Descent 2nd doesn't?
We must have only one version of a game per genre! This game is based on DKH series which for me plays much faster than Descent. And certainly less counters.
Well, my nerd closet does have a maximum capacity, thanks for the added snark.
I do appreciate the actual answer.
No snarkiness intended or implied. I think your question an irrelevant one. Every popular game is followed by similar games. Descent hardly invented the Dungeon crawl genre.
It is not irrelevant. If I already have a game in the genre, wanting to know why This One is also worth buying makes sense. If I have limited funds, even if I don't already have a game in this genre but want one, wanting to know why This One is the one to dedicate my resources to makes sense.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
agnosto wrote: So, what does this bring that my copy of Descent 2nd doesn't?
We must have only one version of a game per genre! This game is based on DKH series which for me plays much faster than Descent. And certainly less counters.
Well, my nerd closet does have a maximum capacity, thanks for the added snark.
I do appreciate the actual answer.
No snarkiness intended or implied. I think your question an irrelevant one. Every popular game is followed by similar games. Descent hardly invented the Dungeon crawl genre.
Of course I disagree because there is absolutely no need for me to purchase another game, particularly one that is currently listed as going to be more expensive than the original, that produces the exact same experience. Thus my question as to what this game will provide that the other does not. If it's just rules, I can download the free rules, or buy them later if they aren't free, from the Mantic website and try them with Descent minis. Minis? I've tons of great minis from a number of sources. Dungeon tiles? Loads of those out there and very inexpensive.
So, again, what will this game provide that other games do not? Keep in mind I'm not saying the game shouldn't exist, competition is healthy, but if someone already owns Descent (in my case both versions) with all the minis and tiles, etc, why should I plunk down my money for this product.
In summary, I would like to know the extent to how different of a gaming experience and how different this product will be when compared to what appears to be a nearly identical, pre-existing product. If you don't know the answer just state so, there's no reason to state the question is irrelevant; it may very well be to you but obviously is not to me...which is why I asked it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 15:34:12
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
Faster gameplay than Descent
Co op of some sort
official sandbox mode to build in your own quests/ campaign
official stats for all of Mantic's fantasy lines (I can't help but want Martian stats since they cross over with everything anyways)
dwarven undead
reptile hero
ninjas (?)
Have they said if the map is going to be completely built at the beginning of the scenario (like Descent 2.0), or where you build it as you explore (Ravenloft, Descent 1.0, WHQ, other things)?
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
I'm really interested in a thoughtful response to agnosto's question, as detailed as possible, because I really DON'T like Descent. DKQ would have to be very different to grab my interest.
I think it's in Mantic's best interest to make this as clear as possible anyway. If you want to say that there hasn't been an entry level heroquest-esque boardgame since forever and we're here to fill that void, Descent is the elephant in the room. If it doesn't fit that bill but DKQ will, I want to know why. (I never played heroquest, but Descent bores the heck out of me.)
@highlord - completely built, I believe.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/01 15:55:53
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Bioptic wrote: One pledge level only's been a CoolMiniOrNot staple lately, doubtless because research showed that backers were starting to get quite confused with all of the options! Hopefully it will also limit the backsliding that's been going on.
Another common tactic is to have the base pledge for $100, then another $50 for the 'Big Expansion', which may or may not have additional freebies added in. So you still get your $150 bedrock, but have a reduced level for the more price-sensitive.
I don't agree on this (but then again that's just me), I like the fact there are multiple pledge levels. If you (and by "you" I mean any person) get confused on the pledge levels, maybe you should simply dedicate just a little more time to read what you are pledging for.
Thanks Highlord Tamburlaine that was helpful. I'll continue to watch for further information before deciding to buy or not.
Another concern is whether or not this will eventually be cheaper through discount sellers like Miniature Market than through the Kickstarter. Mantic has been hit or miss in this regard. They often provide great deals overall in their Kickstarter but some individual models/sets wind up cheaper at MM and other places.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
I'll have to take a proper look at the contents and what not but as it stands from the vague picture that without stretch gaols this will not be worth £75.00. Obviously I'll chip in but we will have to see if I stay in.
Thing is, not that much is known about the project right now - probably best to wait the 3 days until it launches, where more concrete facts will be known! It will mainly differ from Descent in speed (although there is an 'advanced mode'), the option to play fully co-op, and the instant expandability - you won't be limited to new monsters in expansion packs.
agnosto wrote: So, what does this bring that my copy of Descent 2nd doesn't?
Hmm, I think Descent 2nd is pretty but is overtly cumbersome, with too many tokens and counters and plays more like a board game version of a fantasy combat MMO mixed with D&D 4th edition.
So, for me, Descent is the exact opposite of what I personally want out of a dungeon crawler game. I'm hoping Dungeon Saga does that - light enough for beer and pretzels with a little deeper long-term/campaign system. We'll see though.
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agnosto wrote: So, what does this bring that my copy of Descent 2nd doesn't?
Hmm, I think Descent 2nd is pretty but is overtly cumbersome, with too many tokens and counters and plays more like a board game version of a fantasy combat MMO mixed with D&D 4th edition.
So, for me, Descent is the exact opposite of what I personally want out of a dungeon crawler game. I'm hoping Dungeon Saga does that - light enough for beer and pretzels with a little deeper long-term/campaign system. We'll see though.
I agree to a great extent and an easy to play and set-up game that has some depth without being clunky would draw me in.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
agnosto wrote: So, what does this bring that my copy of Descent 2nd doesn't?
We must have only one version of a game per genre! This game is based on DKH series which for me plays much faster than Descent. And certainly less counters.
Well, my nerd closet does have a maximum capacity, thanks for the added snark.
I do appreciate the actual answer.
No snarkiness intended or implied. I think your question an irrelevant one. Every popular game is followed by similar games. Descent hardly invented the Dungeon crawl genre.
Of course I disagree because there is absolutely no need for me to purchase another game, particularly one that is currently listed as going to be more expensive than the original, that produces the exact same experience. Thus my question as to what this game will provide that the other does not. If it's just rules, I can download the free rules, or buy them later if they aren't free, from the Mantic website and try them with Descent minis. Minis? I've tons of great minis from a number of sources. Dungeon tiles? Loads of those out there and very inexpensive.
So, again, what will this game provide that other games do not? Keep in mind I'm not saying the game shouldn't exist, competition is healthy, but if someone already owns Descent (in my case both versions) with all the minis and tiles, etc, why should I plunk down my money for this product.
In summary, I would like to know the extent to how different of a gaming experience and how different this product will be when compared to what appears to be a nearly identical, pre-existing product. If you don't know the answer just state so, there's no reason to state the question is irrelevant; it may very well be to you but obviously is not to me...which is why I asked it.
If you like using existing miniatures and components there is probably little "need" for you to buy into this Kickstarter. The majority of my hobby purchases are not based on the concept of need. I don't "need" another Leman Russ tank but for I continue to collect, paint and play with them for fun.
agnosto wrote: So, what does this bring that my copy of Descent 2nd doesn't?
Hmm, I think Descent 2nd is pretty but is overtly cumbersome, with too many tokens and counters and plays more like a board game version of a fantasy combat MMO mixed with D&D 4th edition.
So, for me, Descent is the exact opposite of what I personally want out of a dungeon crawler game. I'm hoping Dungeon Saga does that - light enough for beer and pretzels with a little deeper long-term/campaign system. We'll see though.
I agree to a great extent and an easy to play and set-up game that has some depth without being clunky would draw me in.
Why would that matter? You can use free to download rules and existing miniatures and components?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 16:19:54
If you like using existing miniatures and components there is probably little "need" for you to buy into this Kickstarter. The majority of my hobby purchases are not based on the concept of need. I don't "need" another Leman Russ tank but for I continue to collect, paint and play with them for fun.
Wow, you're just determined to be unpleasant. Look, I'm sorry if my question somehow insulted you. If it helps, replace my use of the word "need" with the word "reason".
I unfortunately have an expansive nerd budget so I'm running out of space and already have several games collecting dust in my afore mentioned bursting nerd closet and want to be "sold" on the game thus the impetus of my question; I already own everything Descent related so asked what's significantly different about this game to encourage me to buy it. If you don't know and/or don't want to answer, fine; however, there's no need to be unpleasant about a simple, innocent question.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
If you like using existing miniatures and components there is probably little "need" for you to buy into this Kickstarter. The majority of my hobby purchases are not based on the concept of need. I don't "need" another Leman Russ tank but for I continue to collect, paint and play with them for fun.
Wow, you're just determined to be unpleasant. Look, I'm sorry if my question somehow insulted you. If it helps, replace my use of the word "need" with the word "reason".
I unfortunately have an expansive nerd budget so I'm running out of space and already have several games collecting dust in my afore mentioned bursting nerd closet and want to be "sold" on the game thus the impetus of my question; I already own everything Descent related so asked what's significantly different about this game to encourage me to buy it. If you don't know and/or don't want to answer, fine; however, there's no need to be unpleasant about a simple, innocent question.
There is no intended malice in my opinions. You are assigning that attribute. I apologize if I have offended you.
1. Dungeon Saga component wise will be very similar to other miniature dungeon crawlers. As it will have tiles, dice, miniatures, cards, etc. With free rules and color printer an enterprising person could easily replicate all paper/card parts and rules. If you are ok with using 100% stand in miniatures there is probably little reason to buy into the DKQ KS. This logically leaves two parties. Those that don't have lots of minis/components or want more and those that like buying or collecting new or different (aesthetically) games.
2. The rules are based on the existing Dwarf King's Hold game which is a rather fast playing, dare I say beer and pretzels squad based, objective driven, skrimish wargame in a dungeon. You could accquire a copy of the Dwarf Kings Hold rules (I don't believe they are a free download atm) you could print counters and use your own dice to play with your Descent stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 16:42:37
tgmoore wrote: There is no intended malice in my opinions. You are assigning that attribute.
Not trying to broaden the conflict, but as an outside observer I too read your statements as being antagonistic, and I'm far from the first person who would side with agnosto (especially in a Mantic thread). Again, not trying to make this into a thing, but offering the feedback that your tone is evidently coming across very different from what you intend (a known flaw of text-based communication), and some adjustment to writing style might be beneficial as a result.
On topic, I too am curious about what the distinguishing traits of this versus Descent or HeroQuest would be. While you typically don't ever want to mention your competition by name, Mantic would be well-served by having that question answered because it's going to come up. Hopefully they have realized this and we'll get a full answer on August 4th when it goes live.
Unfortunately at this stage it would take some awesome answers to get me in at the KS phase; eBay and my interest in FoW has tapped out the "money I'll throw down a hole" category of the budget.
Thank you for the information. I've never played DKH and so have no experience with the rules. As you and others have mentioned that it's quick-playing.
Do you know how the dungeon tiles compare with Descent? Quality, size, etc. Match, close or completely different? I ask because the pics make them appear rather thin, comparatively speaking.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
- On that note, though - so do the D&D/Ravenloft type games play out differently in the same mission each time - that's because the dungeons are randomly generated, and so are the mobs. So, the result is.. you know.
