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Yeah, I got burned on some of the retail pricing for stuff on their Deadzone Kickstarter and their changing their minds on how they handled the plastic Forge Fathers. I know people got burned on the KoWKS. I think I'll sit this one out. No desperate need for me to get it. I can grab it retail should the mood strike.
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
2014/08/05 17:24:50
Subject: Mantic Dungeon Saga Kickstarter - Launched August 4th@12:30pm GMT - now @ $155K w/ Ghosts @ $175K
Your bad, their picture (for the Ghosts) is crystal clear.
Well, except I didn't get anything wrong.
I'm getting tired of this and I'm sure so are you. There are 3 identical minis there. If you say it's not, then OK... whatever.
For the fullness of discussion, your initial claim was that they were 1) pre-painted, 2) restic ("premium plastic") and 3) identical. Riquende pointed out you were wrong on points 1 and 2, and you are. He said you were likely right on point 3, but lacking official confirmation it cannot be said you are definitively right.
Hulksmash wrote: Yeah, I got burned on some of the retail pricing for stuff on their Deadzone Kickstarter and their changing their minds on how they handled the plastic Forge Fathers. I know people got burned on the KoWKS. I think I'll sit this one out. No desperate need for me to get it. I can grab it retail should the mood strike.
This is starting to look like the 'smart play' here, if not also on most of Mantic's Kickstarters going forward.
Hulksmash wrote: Now full hard plastic Warpath models without integrated bases and I'll throw money at it and just hope for the best
Do the Deadzone plastic sprues have integrated bases? I thought a sprue pic was floating around, can't find it now though. That's probably the best indicator.
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
The Boxed Game at retail will have less Undead than you get on this Kickstarter. You will get 2 of each Undead enemy at retail rather than 3 We're giving you more basic Undead in the stretch goal than you'd get otherwise!
Add to this, a potential 2 zombie trolls and another villain (Zombie troll shaman)
So we're looking at 31 miniatures. It might be less because they say that they're giving more basic undead so maybe less skeletons and zombies or are they considering the ghosts, armoured zombies and dwarf revenants as "basic". I wouldn't consider them basic due to the comparative limited number.
This KS better keep going or this is going to look like a complete turd at $100MSRP with this limited content. I keep going back to Descent but that's the natural competition and I can buy the core set of v2 and 1 expansion for $100MSRP.
As a point of reference, v2 of Descent comes with the following:
Descent: Journeys in the Dark Second Edition includes:
A rulebook and quest guide
8 Hero figures and 38 Monster figures
9 custom dice
Nearly 250 cards
48 Map tiles
Over 150 tokens
Descent also has a vibrant online community with fan and company made quests and campaigns as well as alternative rules and well, a mature and established content base to build from.
In short, Mantic has their work cut-out for them if they wish to compete with FFG beyond the core group of Mantic fans at the price point this game currently sits at.
I think that by not showing a complete product at the $100MSRP level, Mantic will fail to draw-in the board-game crowd who know what they can easily get at that price point in terms of a final product and may just laugh and keep surfing instead of backing. Yes, there's already a large amount of backers and a large sum invested in this but Mantic's in real danger of reaching the limit of their fan base's support. If they don't expand the game's content to the $100MSPR price-level, they might very well lose backers later and fail to draw more. I foresee the Mars Attack kitchen sink treatment if a lull develops later in the campaign.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
Descent is more than double that price in the UK, and Mantic is a UK company. The extremely weak dollar probably has something to do with the seemingly high price tag for the Kickstarter.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/05 17:42:36
As has been covered before, folk in the UK (and I'm guessing most non-US places) can't even buy just Descent as cheaply as this is, let alone an expansion.
Though you'd able to play it a lot sooner!
I do think they've got their sums wrong at the start here though.
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
*56 Minis for the retail boxed set 100$ (at least 80$ at retailer discounters)
*88 Minis for the 100$ Pledge
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
Heroquest apparently came with 35 miniatures. Anyone remember the RRP?
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
Mymearan wrote: Descent is more than double that price in the UK, and Mantic is a UK company. The extremely weak dollar probably has something to do with the seemingly high price tag for the Kickstarter.
Wouldn't a weak dollar mean a cheaper Descent in the UK as the pound would have more buying power?
I think I'll check Miniature Market's international shipping for giggles and see what it would take to ship it to the UK.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
I think I'll check Miniature Market's international shipping for giggles and see what it would take to ship it to the UK.
I make it $120 with shipping.
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
I think I'll check Miniature Market's international shipping for giggles and see what it would take to ship it to the UK.
I make it $120 with shipping.
Good to know, thanks for checking. Wow double price for shipping.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
Hulksmash wrote: Yeah, I got burned on some of the retail pricing for stuff on their Deadzone Kickstarter and their changing their minds on how they handled the plastic Forge Fathers. I know people got burned on the KoWKS. I think I'll sit this one out. No desperate need for me to get it. I can grab it retail should the mood strike.
Don't remind me, After the disaster that was the enforcers faction, they won't be seeing a dime of my cash again. They weren't even that apologetic about it. Just acted as if giving us 5 garbage enforcer minis from warpath more than made up for it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/05 18:01:55
Heroquest apparently came with 35 miniatures. Anyone remember the RRP?
In 1989? Original price was $30 and the expansions were $20.
And you can reliably get a good condition complete set of Heroquest for less than 100$ on ebay.
My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA."
Your bad, their picture (for the Ghosts) is crystal clear.
Well, except I didn't get anything wrong.
I'm getting tired of this and I'm sure so are you. There are 3 identical minis there. If you say it's not, then OK... whatever.
For the fullness of discussion, your initial claim was that they were 1) pre-painted, 2) restic ("premium plastic") and 3) identical. Riquende pointed out you were wrong on points 1 and 2, and you are. He said you were likely right on point 3, but lacking official confirmation it cannot be said you are definitively right.
Yes, I admitted I was wrong about the pre-painted stuff, you don't want to admit that these will be 3 identical minis. And I'm sorry I didn't quote 25 lines again, I didn't find it necessary. (Stupid conversation here).
Bolognesus wrote: ? You're still getting the HIPS enforcers - these are just there to tide you over, for the time being...
With the assumption that I'll still care one year later? I had plenty of opportunities to buy the warpath models, in fact I did in order to play out some paint schemes for my enforcers. That doubled with things like the pathfinder model, which looked amazing in concept and then turned out to be what looks like a cultist on a unicycle just soured my experience of the whole thing.
Yes, I admitted I was wrong about the pre-painted stuff, you don't want to admit that these will be 3 identical minis. And I'm sorry I didn't quote 25 lines again, I didn't find it necessary. (Stupid conversation here).
What on earth are you babbling about? How can anyone admit that they will be 3 identical minis when that hasn't been confirmed anywhere? For some reason you have a weird problem with me saying you're probably right, and that I dislike it just like you.
I'm trying to agree with you, you want to turn it into an argument.
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
edlowe wrote: Weird thought, How do the trolls fit down the single square corridors?
Actually the tiles look a little off to me, the artwork looks great but I think they need a border plus larger corridors.
Mantic trolls have tiny legs; they just turn sideways and sidle down the hall..
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
Mymearan wrote: Descent is more than double that price in the UK, and Mantic is a UK company. The extremely weak dollar probably has something to do with the seemingly high price tag for the Kickstarter.
Wouldn't a weak dollar mean a cheaper Descent in the UK as the pound would have more buying power?
/quote]
Sadly not, we usually get a UK pound price direct from US dollar price on a lot of things, if it is $60 for you it will probably be £60 over here. With the cost of international shipping and VAT I guess it is understandable. You also have to take into account that UK retailers may buy 6 months/ a year of stock at a time. If they did so when the dollar was stronger against the pound there is little to no chance that that will be passed onto the consumer, and understandably so. And the high postage cost/tax from abroad basically rules out the chance of buying games cheaper from other countries.
#edit: no idea how I have made my words into those of Agnosto.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/05 18:26:16
edlowe wrote: Weird thought, How do the trolls fit down the single square corridors?
Actually the tiles look a little off to me, the artwork looks great but I think they need a border plus larger corridors.
Mantic trolls have tiny legs; they just turn sideways and sidle down the hall..
lol
Asked on the comments
@ Ed - they tend not to, which adds some interesting tactics to playing the heroes and the necromancer. Those very narrow corridors, the 1 square wide ones, might just be the heroes salvation - or doom them forever Still, you're going to have to come out at some point
Bottlenecks, outnumbering and defending your rear arc are very conscious tactical choices you'll need to negotiate with Dungeon Saga.
Coloured plastic is their term for 'board game plastic'. It's not 'restic' (premium plastic) and it's not prepainted, a dye is mixed into the PVC to produce a non-grey figure.
@ Thraxas, it appears you have your quote tags messed-up. Not to worry, I can read your comment.
It's sad for you UK folk. I just checked Wayland Games and they have Descent at about $85USD...the good news is that there's free delivery involved.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
the thing people don't realize is that they have some of the master sculpted, sure, but in reality they have to pay for the tooling costs, which means stretch goals for those models.
They are not fake goal.
I collect:
Grand alliance death (whole alliance)
Stormcast eternals
Slaves to Darkness - currently Nurgle but may expand to undivided.
Okay, I am now willing to admit that for any given '3 model' stretch goal, the 3 models will be identical:
@ Rick - 3 of the same, as per the piccie.
(Dunno why I didn't think to just ask this earlier)
So when I said they will probably be identical, turns out I was right.
Anyway, this is annoying, for KoW crossover purposes.
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
Still, you're going to have to come out at some point 
