Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

hello

so after looking at 7th edition i belive i have found away to make farsight enclave viable in 7th. (other than just riptide spam)

with the new changes to the way troops hold objectives battlesuits as troops are incredibly usefull. one issue i always had with the devil fish was that it was quite squishy and cant move quickly. in order to make sure it survives the delivery of the fire warriors you need to spend more points on a disruption pod. So having 3 10 man firewarrior squads plus devil fish with disruption pods was exspensive. the suits have there "running away phase" this means theoretically it can move 18 inchs during your turn seizing objectives is easy with this. Im not saying that a tau army with only battlesuits is viable is viable or competitive i belive you still need firewarriors, but suits are tactically better at sezing objectives and stopping enermy transports and troops as long as there equipped properly.

On to the second reason why i think farsight enclave is viable. The amulet of arthas moloch! with the introduction of the new psychic phase i have notice that the tau are hinderd the fact they can't use the new phase like many other armys. But with the new rule for the amulet this can reduce the amount of powers your enmies take. the new rule is this "In addition, the bearer and all friendly units with in 12" add +2 to there deny the witch roles" this is amazing so if you have 2 units with this I.E "riptide/commander" thats now 2+ deny the witch so good bye daemon summoning lists vs farsight enclave.

so please leave feedback on the new rule to the amulet of arthas moloch and what you think of the strategy/tactic.

Unless you're running something like Grey knights where you get so many warp charges that you can spend on dice rolls that it doesn't matter for your +2 because you'd have a hard time even getting that many dice to roll the right amount. However I see what you are saying, tau have a domwaht defense mechanism to assist them. It doesn't make certain builds go away though, so saying goodbye is irrelevant.

I play Farsight Enclaves myself but I have to disagree with your point about the Devilfish. Sure they are easy to kill if you focus fire in them, but if you dump the Fire Warrior squad on one of your home objectives and just use it to capture objectivessels across the board it's a fantastic use of points. It moves a guaranteed 18" (12" then flat out if you don't shoot) rather than a very unlikely 18" with an XV8, and with a Dpod a 3+ cover save is nothing to sneeze at. Certainly better than the 3+ armor save of a Crisis suit.

Crisis suits are awesome at capping objectives, a single suit with a flamer deep striking into the backfield with objective secured has won me multiple games in 7th, but that's a different role than the Devilfish fields, and durability and mobility certainly aren't it's advantages. Being cheap, inconspicuous, and easily hidden are. Crisis suits are not a replacement for Devilfish by any means.

Also only one Moloch per army, and it only works against powers that target your units. So buffs are still going to be at a 6+ and you still have the issue of not enough dice to stop things he really wants off.

barnowl wrote:
Also only one Moloch per army, and it only works against powers that target your units. So buffs are still going to be at a 6+ and you still have the issue of not enough dice to stop things he really wants off.

Qft, this is the point I was trying to make

 Tarnag wrote:
I play Farsight Enclaves myself but I have to disagree with your point about the Devilfish. Sure they are easy to kill if you focus fire in them, but if you dump the Fire Warrior squad on one of your home objectives and just use it to capture objectivessels across the board it's a fantastic use of points. It moves a guaranteed 18" (12" then flat out if you don't shoot) rather than a very unlikely 18" with an XV8, and with a Dpod a 3+ cover save is nothing to sneeze at. Certainly better than the 3+ armor save of a Crisis suit.

Crisis suits are awesome at capping objectives, a single suit with a flamer deep striking into the backfield with objective secured has won me multiple games in 7th, but that's a different role than the Devilfish fields, and durability and mobility certainly aren't it's advantages. Being cheap, inconspicuous, and easily hidden are. Crisis suits are not a replacement for Devilfish by any means.

from my experience my Devilfish always die before they reach there target :/ and that comes with Firewarrior losses and unfortunetly on 7th its a 4+ now since cover saves only give you a 5+ disruption pods only give you a +1 to your saves since its stealthed. i agree that they both have there ups and downs but for my purposes i think suits are better
thanks for the reply


Automatically Appended Next Post:

barnowl wrote:
Also only one Moloch per army, and it only works against powers that target your units. So buffs are still going to be at a 6+ and you still have the issue of not enough dice to stop things he really wants off.

Where does it say target your units? although there still is that issue of not having enough dice which is true i have yet to find a way around this usually i just priortise powers that will harm me the most. also why only one molocj you can have 1 per commander riptide and sash'vre right? correct me if im wrong

i argue farsight enclave are noticeably better than normal tau rules in 7th. the normal tau book has become a bit samey and several armies across their whole player spectrum are getting wise on how to counter their shenanigans and parlor tricks. i personnaly am not very afraid of the regular tau book anymore, i find that inexperience tau players are absolutely ez mode and players who havent found ways to conquer the shortcomings of their army completely can be quite fun.

farsight enclave is another matter, they worry me

Lefon wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

barnowl wrote:
Also only one Moloch per army, and it only works against powers that target your units. So buffs are still going to be at a 6+ and you still have the issue of not enough dice to stop things he really wants off.

Where does it say target your units? although there still is that issue of not having enough dice which is true i have yet to find a way around this usually i just priortise powers that will harm me the most. also why only one molocj you can have 1 per commander riptide and sash'vre right? correct me if im wrong

" Only one of each Signature System may be taken per army" << right at the start of the Signature Systems section.

As to the why it only works for targeted units that is in the BRB hardcopy pg. 26 4th paragraph. Moloch gives the bear and any freindly in 12" a bonus. Those bonus only count when a unit is the target of the power. When the power does not target your units you can still attempt it but only at the base 6+.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ionusx wrote:
i argue farsight enclave are noticeably better than normal tau rules in 7th. the normal tau book has become a bit samey and several armies across their whole player spectrum are getting wise on how to counter their shenanigans and parlor tricks. i personnaly am not very afraid of the regular tau book anymore, i find that inexperience tau players are absolutely ez mode and players who havent found ways to conquer the shortcomings of their army completely can be quite fun.

farsight enclave is another matter, they worry me

TE gimmick builds have been getting less scary. I run gimmick free builds,of forward moving FW with support. I find this is to be a bit unsettling for people use to playing the static gunline tau. TE don't really need to be played gimmicky to be effect.

barnowl wrote:

Lefon wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

barnowl wrote:
Also only one Moloch per army, and it only works against powers that target your units. So buffs are still going to be at a 6+ and you still have the issue of not enough dice to stop things he really wants off.

Where does it say target your units? although there still is that issue of not having enough dice which is true i have yet to find a way around this usually i just priortise powers that will harm me the most. also why only one molocj you can have 1 per commander riptide and sash'vre right? correct me if im wrong

" Only one of each Signature System may be taken per army" << right at the start of the Signature Systems section.

As to the why it only works for targeted units that is in the BRB hardcopy pg. 26 4th paragraph. Moloch gives the bear and any freindly in 12" a bonus. Those bonus only count when a unit is the target of the power. When the power does not target your units you can still attempt it but only at the base 6+.


oh i must have missread my bad my store manager isnt very realible when it comes to rules i at the start he told me that you capture an objective if your troops are with in 6 inchs

Lefon wrote:

barnowl wrote:

Lefon wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

barnowl wrote:
Also only one Moloch per army, and it only works against powers that target your units. So buffs are still going to be at a 6+ and you still have the issue of not enough dice to stop things he really wants off.

Where does it say target your units? although there still is that issue of not having enough dice which is true i have yet to find a way around this usually i just priortise powers that will harm me the most. also why only one molocj you can have 1 per commander riptide and sash'vre right? correct me if im wrong

" Only one of each Signature System may be taken per army" << right at the start of the Signature Systems section.

As to the why it only works for targeted units that is in the BRB hardcopy pg. 26 4th paragraph. Moloch gives the bear and any freindly in 12; a bonus. Those bonus only count when a unit is the target of the power. When the power does not target your units you can still attempt it but only at the base 6+.


i see the second point, but as for the signature systems when it says only one per army i dont think it means 1 on a single battlesuit. I think it means out of all the sginature systems you can only use 1 out of all the systems. I checked with a GW manager when i first started playing and he clarifyed that it 1 out of all the systems i have used this for all my army lists, including in a league and nobody has siad its aginst the rules.

The GW manager got it wrong. Now if he wants it to run it at that store that way, fine, but he is house ruling it. But it is pretty straight forward RAW on that rule, it is written 1 of each not chose 1 and use as many of that one as you like. You can use all 6 systems in your army, but each system can only be taken 1 time. This the same for every codex out there, and is why you dont see lots of Shield Eternal's and Burning Blades in SM lists for example.

As a side note, if your GW is only going to let you use one Signature system but take it multiple times, I would use the Warscaper drone.

barnowl wrote:

Lefon wrote:

barnowl wrote:

Lefon wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

barnowl wrote:
Also only one Moloch per army, and it only works against powers that target your units. So buffs are still going to be at a 6+ and you still have the issue of not enough dice to stop things he really wants off.

Where does it say target your units? although there still is that issue of not having enough dice which is true i have yet to find a way around this usually i just priortise powers that will harm me the most. also why only one molocj you can have 1 per commander riptide and sash'vre right? correct me if im wrong

" Only one of each Signature System may be taken per army" << right at the start of the Signature Systems section.

As to the why it only works for targeted units that is in the BRB hardcopy pg. 26 4th paragraph. Moloch gives the bear and any freindly in 12; a bonus. Those bonus only count when a unit is the target of the power. When the power does not target your units you can still attempt it but only at the base 6+.


i see the second point, but as for the signature systems when it says only one per army i dont think it means 1 on a single battlesuit. I think it means out of all the sginature systems you can only use 1 out of all the systems. I checked with a GW manager when i first started playing and he clarifyed that it 1 out of all the systems i have used this for all my army lists, including in a league and nobody has siad its aginst the rules.

The GW manager got it wrong. Now if he wants it to run it at that store that way, fine, but he is house ruling it. But it is pretty straight forward RAW on that rule, it is written 1 of each not chose 1 and use as many of that one as you like. You can use all 6 systems in your army, but each system can only be taken 1 time. This the same for every codex out there, and is why you dont see lots of Shield Eternal's and Burning Blades in SM lists for example.

As a side note, if your GW is only going to let you use one Signature system but take it multiple times, I would use the Warscaper drone.

yes the warscaper drone is so usefull partcualry that it functions as the drone that you converted into the warscaper drone if i had more marker drones i would give my anti infantry suits it along with the 4 marker drones and 1 with the warscaper thanks for the reply im modifying my enclave league list as we go : D

Lefon wrote:

 Tarnag wrote:
I play Farsight Enclaves myself but I have to disagree with your point about the Devilfish. Sure they are easy to kill if you focus fire in them, but if you dump the Fire Warrior squad on one of your home objectives and just use it to capture objectivessels across the board it's a fantastic use of points. It moves a guaranteed 18" (12" then flat out if you don't shoot) rather than a very unlikely 18" with an XV8, and with a Dpod a 3+ cover save is nothing to sneeze at. Certainly better than the 3+ armor save of a Crisis suit.

Crisis suits are awesome at capping objectives, a single suit with a flamer deep striking into the backfield with objective secured has won me multiple games in 7th, but that's a different role than the Devilfish fields, and durability and mobility certainly aren't it's advantages. Being cheap, inconspicuous, and easily hidden are. Crisis suits are not a replacement for Devilfish by any means.

from my experience my Devilfish always die before they reach there target :/ and that comes with Firewarrior losses and unfortunetly on 7th its a 4+ now since cover saves only give you a 5+ disruption pods only give you a +1 to your saves since its stealthed. i agree that they both have there ups and downs but for my purposes i think suits are better
thanks for the reply

Jink gives you a 4+, which turns into a 3+ with Dpods. And I definitely suggest you try using the fish and the Fire Warriors separately for capping objectives.

I love my FE army. All troops are crisis suits. Riptides. Broadsides. Skyrays. Still figuring the best way to provide enough marker support for the army. But I really enjoy playing maelstrom with it.

For tournament play, I think my Necrons have several stronger builds.

Kholzerino wrote:
I love my FE army. All troops are crisis suits. Riptides. Broadsides. Skyrays. Still figuring the best way to provide enough marker support for the army. But I really enjoy playing maelstrom with it.

For tournament play, I think my Necrons have several stronger builds.

Stealth teams can help. give you 3 bs3 markerlights that are highly mobile and decent durable.

 Tarnag wrote:

Lefon wrote:

 Tarnag wrote:
I play Farsight Enclaves myself but I have to disagree with your point about the Devilfish. Sure they are easy to kill if you focus fire in them, but if you dump the Fire Warrior squad on one of your home objectives and just use it to capture objectivessels across the board it's a fantastic use of points. It moves a guaranteed 18" (12" then flat out if you don't shoot) rather than a very unlikely 18" with an XV8, and with a Dpod a 3+ cover save is nothing to sneeze at. Certainly better than the 3+ armor save of a Crisis suit.

Crisis suits are awesome at capping objectives, a single suit with a flamer deep striking into the backfield with objective secured has won me multiple games in 7th, but that's a different role than the Devilfish fields, and durability and mobility certainly aren't it's advantages. Being cheap, inconspicuous, and easily hidden are. Crisis suits are not a replacement for Devilfish by any means.

from my experience my Devilfish always die before they reach there target :/ and that comes with Firewarrior losses and unfortunetly on 7th its a 4+ now since cover saves only give you a 5+ disruption pods only give you a +1 to your saves since its stealthed. i agree that they both have there ups and downs but for my purposes i think suits are better
thanks for the reply

Jink gives you a 4+, which turns into a 3+ with Dpods. And I definitely suggest you try using the fish and the Fire Warriors separately for capping objectives.

wow i didnt realised it stacked like that i thought they were sepperate well that is pretty good il consider adding devil fish into my next 1850 list : D


Automatically Appended Next Post:

barnowl wrote:

Kholzerino wrote:
I love my FE army. All troops are crisis suits. Riptides. Broadsides. Skyrays. Still figuring the best way to provide enough marker support for the army. But I really enjoy playing maelstrom with it.

For tournament play, I think my Necrons have several stronger builds.

Stealth teams can help. give you 3 bs3 markerlights that are highly mobile and decent durable.

i recently came 2nd place at a tounry with stealthsuits being a big part in my strategy 2+ save plus i gave them stimulant injectors really was great its a big point investment but if you know how to bait the enemy it works