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jhe90 wrote:
Because space marines are wasted on occupation, riot control and mundane guard duty or other man power intensive tasks that the guard are just so perfect for.

This. Special Forces are Special for a reason - they do the stuff you can't send the regular army to do. Take out a listening post, take out an enemy Commander, blow up a vital munitions warehouse or a space defense laser and so on. Using them on "lesser" duties is a waste of the resources that went into creating them. And those resources are not insignificant. A bolter, a suit of Power Armor, 6-10 years of training, arcane biological/surgical enhancements and psycho-indoctrination that make them so far above other men as to seem like gods of war at times...

How many guardsmen (or even tanks) could you get for the cost of one Space Marine? And what duties are there you can't handle with enough Guardsmen?

Only problem is that like half the SM fluff has them doing grunt warfare stuff that'd see most chapters destroyed in weeks XD

 Vaktathi wrote:
Only problem is that like half the SM fluff has them doing grunt warfare stuff that'd see most chapters destroyed in weeks XD

You know SM fluff is probably the most ridiculous out of the whole universe. 1,000 man chapters? That couldn't even sustain a planetary war. GW seems to be changing fluff more than a girl changes high heels yet they insist on leaving those chapters at 1,000 which makes zer0 logical sense. I have said this before and I will continue to say it. I think 10,000 man chapters with 50 companies of 200 men is the very least a chapter should contain. But noooooo lets stick with BS that gives SM's such a bad name.

Vaktathi wrote:Only problem is that like half the SM fluff has them doing grunt warfare stuff that'd see most chapters destroyed in weeks XD

Thankfully, they do at least have fluff here and there about chapters getting wiped out or nearly wiped out thanks to a single botched mission. Even big'uns like blood angels and ultramarines and crimson fists.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Only problem is that like half the SM fluff has them doing grunt warfare stuff that'd see most chapters destroyed in weeks XD

You know SM fluff is probably the most ridiculous out of the whole universe. 1,000 man chapters? That couldn't even sustain a planetary war. GW seems to be changing fluff more than a girl changes high heels yet they insist on leaving those chapters at 1,000 which makes zer0 logical sense. I have said this before and I will continue to say it. I think 10,000 man chapters with 50 companies of 200 men is the very least a chapter should contain. But noooooo lets stick with BS that gives SM's such a bad name.

I like 1000 man chapters...

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Only problem is that like half the SM fluff has them doing grunt warfare stuff that'd see most chapters destroyed in weeks XD

You know SM fluff is probably the most ridiculous out of the whole universe. 1,000 man chapters? That couldn't even sustain a planetary war. GW seems to be changing fluff more than a girl changes high heels yet they insist on leaving those chapters at 1,000 which makes zer0 logical sense. I have said this before and I will continue to say it. I think 10,000 man chapters with 50 companies of 200 men is the very least a chapter should contain. But noooooo lets stick with BS that gives SM's such a bad name.

Yeah, the 1000 chapters of 1000 marines just makes them so *rare* on a galactic scale as to be beyond mythical in battlefield presence

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Only problem is that like half the SM fluff has them doing grunt warfare stuff that'd see most chapters destroyed in weeks XD

You know SM fluff is probably the most ridiculous out of the whole universe. 1,000 man chapters? That couldn't even sustain a planetary war. GW seems to be changing fluff more than a girl changes high heels yet they insist on leaving those chapters at 1,000 which makes zer0 logical sense. I have said this before and I will continue to say it. I think 10,000 man chapters with 50 companies of 200 men is the very least a chapter should contain. But noooooo lets stick with BS that gives SM's such a bad name.

I like 1000 man chapters...

I wish I could like them, but I just don't see it.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Only problem is that like half the SM fluff has them doing grunt warfare stuff that'd see most chapters destroyed in weeks XD

You know SM fluff is probably the most ridiculous out of the whole universe. 1,000 man chapters? That couldn't even sustain a planetary war. GW seems to be changing fluff more than a girl changes high heels yet they insist on leaving those chapters at 1,000 which makes zer0 logical sense. I have said this before and I will continue to say it. I think 10,000 man chapters with 50 companies of 200 men is the very least a chapter should contain. But noooooo lets stick with BS that gives SM's such a bad name.

I like 1000 man chapters...

I wish I could like them, but I just don't see it.

I can make it work in my head.

Well, I'll post a lengthy explanation later. For now I am going to sleep, it is over 6 in the morning.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Only problem is that like half the SM fluff has them doing grunt warfare stuff that'd see most chapters destroyed in weeks XD

You know SM fluff is probably the most ridiculous out of the whole universe. 1,000 man chapters? That couldn't even sustain a planetary war. GW seems to be changing fluff more than a girl changes high heels yet they insist on leaving those chapters at 1,000 which makes zer0 logical sense. I have said this before and I will continue to say it. I think 10,000 man chapters with 50 companies of 200 men is the very least a chapter should contain. But noooooo lets stick with BS that gives SM's such a bad name.

Yeah, the 1000 chapters of 1000 marines just makes them so *rare* on a galactic scale as to be beyond mythical in battlefield presence

Too rare for me to be comfortable with. Space Marines are very powerful, but that power means nuthing if they're being gang raped by millions of tyranids.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Only problem is that like half the SM fluff has them doing grunt warfare stuff that'd see most chapters destroyed in weeks XD

You know SM fluff is probably the most ridiculous out of the whole universe. 1,000 man chapters? That couldn't even sustain a planetary war. GW seems to be changing fluff more than a girl changes high heels yet they insist on leaving those chapters at 1,000 which makes zer0 logical sense. I have said this before and I will continue to say it. I think 10,000 man chapters with 50 companies of 200 men is the very least a chapter should contain. But noooooo lets stick with BS that gives SM's such a bad name.

I like 1000 man chapters...

I wish I could like them, but I just don't see it.

I can make it work in my head.

Well, I'll post a lengthy explanation later. For now I am going to sleep, it is over 6 in the morning.

Omg, way past your bedtime

Lord Tarkin wrote:1,000 man chapters? That couldn't even sustain a planetary war.

Space marines don't exist for sustained planetary war.

Stop confusing them with the imperial guard.

They don't, those are all Alpha Legionnaires.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
GW seems to be changing fluff more than a girl changes high heels

 Ailaros wrote:

Lord Tarkin wrote:1,000 man chapters? That couldn't even sustain a planetary war.

Space marines don't exist for sustained planetary war.

Stop confusing them with the imperial guard.

I wasn't inferring they do it by themselves. SM's need a larger army to be more successful, that's all I'm saying.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
GW seems to be changing fluff more than a girl changes high heels

Well, they do. My ex-gf did that gak all the time anywayyy, back on topic

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
GW seems to be changing fluff more than a girl changes high heels

Well, they do. My ex-gf did that gak all the time anywayyy, back on topic

Your ex-girlfriend did that. Okay. Now some girl beat you at sport, too. Does that mean “Girls beat you at sport all the time”?

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

Lord Tarkin wrote:1,000 man chapters? That couldn't even sustain a planetary war.

Space marines don't exist for sustained planetary war.

Stop confusing them with the imperial guard.

I wasn't inferring they do it by themselves. SM's need a larger army to be more successful, that's all I'm saying.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
GW seems to be changing fluff more than a girl changes high heels

Well, they do. My ex-gf did that gak all the time anywayyy, back on topic

and the SMs have the larger army through the guard.

Do the Space Marines need larger numbers to be effective in a intergalatic campaign? absolutly. Space Marine Chapters are too small to single handedly engage in acts of galatic conquest...
This is working as intended. Following the Horus Heresy, Gulliman and the high lords DELIBERATLY CRIPPLED THE MILITARY.
He split the "Imperial Army" into two, creating the Imperial guard and the Imperial Navy, giving them fairly strongly defined roles apart from one another. all in an attempt to reduce the ability for a future Heresy. the Space Marines where kept as a self sufficant mobile reaction force (that self sufficancy is out side space marines non-existant in the IoM) however to stop the Marines from being a threat, Gulliman divided the legions into Chapters. sufficant for mobile fast reaction stuff and supporting the Guard etc, but in too small a number to parley their self sufficancy etc into a major threat.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
GW seems to be changing fluff more than a girl changes high heels

Well, they do. My ex-gf did that gak all the time anywayyy, back on topic

Your ex-girlfriend did that. Okay. Now some girl beat you at sport, too. Does that mean “Girls beat you at sport all the time”?

Huh?

Let me put it that way: using old and potentially offensive cliche like “black people are faster” or “girls like to change shoes all the time” are likely to make you quite unpopular, especially among people that do not fit those cliche.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Let me put it that way: using old and potentially offensive cliche like “black people are faster” or “girls like to change shoes all the time” are likely to make you quite unpopular, especially among people that do not fit those cliche.

Relax, do you have to be so sensitive?
Stop picking at my posts and trying to make me out to be the bad guy in every thread I'm involved in.

Alright guys, enough. This was originally a joke(while tipsy) but can actually be used to truly discuss the reasoning behind which the imperial guard serve, just as the space marine became that for them.

It takes five years after a space marine is successfully implanted with the geneseed before you can get another marine out of him with a second being able to be made ten years in. If even a small number of potential marines reject the implants you are five years from recovering one from a new recruite. Since they generally do not recover the second one until the marine is dead at best you could double the number of marines every five years assuming no deaths and every recruit took the implants without rejecting it. There are more imperial worlds then their are loyal marines right now. It would take thousands of years to even have a chance of making enough marines to actually make the imperial guard pointless and most of those marines would likely need to be equipped like storm troopers and use chimeras since it takes to long to produce most marine vehicles and equipment. So why not just take all the effort that would go into making that happen into making a billion guard regiments in the same time.

I am honestly with Oxayotl, stereotypes are unnecessary.

That said.

To answer the topic:

 Melissia wrote:
To sell models.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I am honestly with Oxayotl, stereotypes are unnecessary.

That said.

To answer the topic:

 Melissia wrote:
To sell models.

I...am not stereotyping, it was a joke.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I...am not stereotyping, it was a joke.

Well, then you need to understand that since you are on the giving end of the joke, you might find your joke funny and entertaining because it is “new”, but for people on the receiving end, it is neither. They hear it all the time (from different, random people), and it gets annoying very, very fast.
I got a very tiny sample of that treatment because I am a vegetarian, so I can imagine how annoying these kind of jokes must be for women that are into male-dominated stuff like wargaming or video games or computers…

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I...am not stereotyping, it was a joke.

Well, then you need to understand that since you are on the giving end of the joke, you might find your joke funny and entertaining because it is “new”, but for people on the receiving end, it is neither. They hear it all the time (from different, random people), and it gets annoying very, very fast.
I got a very tiny sample of that treatment because I am a vegetarian, so I can imagine how annoying these kind of jokes must be for women that are into male-dominated stuff like wargaming or video games or computers…

From the part you said you were "vegetarian" and on, you completely lost me.

Anyway, since you and others can't take a simple joke then I will retain a Mr. Scrooge attitude. Carry on.

 Ailaros wrote:

Lord Tarkin wrote:1,000 man chapters? That couldn't even sustain a planetary war.

Space marines don't exist for sustained planetary war.

Stop confusing them with the imperial guard.

The problem is that half their fluff has them doing exactly that....

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
From the part you said you were "vegetarian" and on, you completely lost me.

Allow me to explain. Upon learning that I am a vegetarian, a lot of people wants to joke or argue about it. That is not a problem in itself. But what gets annoying is that they all basically say variations of the same jokes/arguments. For them, it is something new. For me, it is that very same joke I have heard a billion time, or that same argument I have answered a billion times. Therefore, the jokes are not funny, and the arguments are not interesting. Both are just repetitive and annoying.
I am pretty sure all the “go make me a sandwich”, “you are angry because you are on your period”, and similar jokes must feel the same to women in male-dominated hobbies.

It is true that, unlike those examples, you were not actually targeting a specific user. But I am pretty confident it is going to be annoying for a girl that browse these forums because she likes to play Warhammer 40 000, and have no specific interest in changing high heels, to read broad generalizations like that. Just ask Ashiraya.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Anyway, since you and others can't take a simple joke then I will retain a Mr. Scrooge attitude. Carry on.

Jokes in general are okay. But jokes that make fun of people that perpetuate stereotypes would be more appreciated than jokes that perpetuate stereotype . Those can be harder to find, but end up being more original and funnier in the end.

Ok Lay off Lord Tarkin he made a joke get over it.

In all fairness Lord Tarkin what you should of done was quoted Katy Perry "GW changes their mind like a girl changes cloths" and you would not of been in this mess

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
From the part you said you were "vegetarian" and on, you completely lost me.

Allow me to explain. Upon learning that I am a vegetarian, a lot of people wants to joke or argue about it. That is not a problem in itself. But what gets annoying is that they all basically say variations of the same jokes/arguments. For them, it is something new. For me, it is that very same joke I have heard a billion time, or that same argument I have answered a billion times. Therefore, the jokes are not funny, and the arguments are not interesting. Both are just repetitive and annoying.
I am pretty sure all the “go make me a sandwich”, “you are angry because you are on your period”, and similar jokes must feel the same to women in male-dominated hobbies.

It is true that, unlike those examples, you were not actually targeting a specific user. But I am pretty confident it is going to be annoying for a girl that browse these forums because she likes to play Warhammer 40 000, and have no specific interest in changing high heels, to read broad generalizations like that. Just ask Ashiraya.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Anyway, since you and others can't take a simple joke then I will retain a Mr. Scrooge attitude. Carry on.

Jokes in general are okay. But jokes that make fun of people that perpetuate stereotypes would be more appreciated than jokes that perpetuate stereotype . Those can be harder to find, but end up being more original and funnier in the end.

Ok, whatever, I'm done.

Edit: you and Ashiraya can be mad all you want. I won't apologize for trying to be funny

Alpha 1 wrote:
In all fairness Lord Tarkin what you should of done was quoted Katy Perry "GW changes their mind like a girl changes cloths" and you would not of been in this mess

I fail to see the difference. Is that supposed to be better because it replaces shoes with clothes, or because it was sung by some singer?

Alpha 1 wrote:
Ok Lay off Lord Tarkin he made a joke get over it.

In all fairness Lord Tarkin what you should of done was quoted Katy Perry "GW changes their mind like a girl changes cloths" and you would not of been in this mess

Dammit, to be honest, I was typing that post in a hurry and I honestly didn't even think I'd get this much heat for it.