Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 dogma wrote:
It is a well established fact that crime around military bases (US and otherwise) is unusually high, so this case is not surprising.

What is surprising (at least to me) is that one of the guys allegedly raped another person, got psychiatric treatment, was declared "cured" and released... Whether he was wrongly accused in THIS case remains to be seen, but with a military in the throws of draw downs, something like that is a sure ticket back to the states with discharge papers.

Why is that a surprise. Rapists are never cured.

I'm surprised that he was released "back into the wild" as it were, as opposed to sent to the States for further treatment, or actual jail time.

 trexmeyer wrote:
Why do we still have troops in Europe and Japan? ... ...

Because if you want to be a preeminent global superpower you can't do it by having your entire military force two oceans away from 80% of everywhere else on the planet.

 trexmeyer wrote:
Why do we still have troops in Europe and Japan?

Strategic value... As I said earlier, one of the DoD's largest hospitals in the world is in Germany... No matter where we deploy in the world, we want to get our guys' the best possible medical treatment as soon as possible. Landstuhl serves this purpose, as it either stabilizes guys enough to transport to Walter Reed, or treats them/sends them home or back to the front.... It's also a major supply hub, as military goods require their transports to be refueled every so often.


And I'd say that the DoD isn't ignoring the "abuse of women" at all... there've been programs for these sorts of things for years and years. It's just that they recently felt the message wasnt coming across right, and revamped the whole thing; At this point, I think it may be too early to tell whether the new program is having much of a different effect from previous. If it is working, then the "rise" in these incidents on/near military installations is merely an increase in reporting, rather than an increase of actual incident (as it is, it's impossible to tell whether an increase in reporting is just that, or if it's actually an increase in activity when compared to previous years' data)

The one that did the 17 year old rape might have been already UCMJ Non Judicial being legal age of consent for the military is 18 regardless of where you are.

Both are being held on US Army post belonging to 173rd. They might be mistaken on the Italian bit being their is a LEO Rep at the Provost Marshall Facility

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:
Why do we still have troops in Europe and Japan?

And I'd say that the DoD isn't ignoring the "abuse of women" at all... there've been programs for these sorts of things for years and years. It's just that they recently felt the message wasnt coming across right, and revamped the whole thing; At this point, I think it may be too early to tell whether the new program is having much of a different effect from previous. If it is working, then the "rise" in these incidents on/near military installations is merely an increase in reporting, rather than an increase of actual incident (as it is, it's impossible to tell whether an increase in reporting is just that, or if it's actually an increase in activity when compared to previous years' data)

I read about a case last summer that boiled down to a female servicemember being sexually abused multiple times, then thrown into medical and told she was insane, doped out on drugs that severely imbalanced her emotional state, and then rapidly mustered out as a "crazy." This wasn't a one off situation either. I'm not sure if the perpetrators have even been punished yet. I've also heard a retired Army LtCol that is know a civilian contractor state that these women are either lying or they were asking for it. There is a severe problem here and it is not being dealt with sufficiently or transparently.

 trexmeyer wrote:
I've also heard a retired Army LtCol that is know a civilian contractor state that these women are either lying or they were asking for it. There is a severe problem here and it is not being dealt with sufficiently or transparently.

As I said earlier, there is a new program in place... As with many of these kinds of thing, you REALLY need to get rid of the "old guard" from previous programs/ lines of thinking in order to clear the poison from the well. This is basically a "classic" example of what I'm talking about... As of when I left (a few months ago), someone espousing that opinion would be counselled and eventually booted from the Army, because there is no room for that line of thinking in "today's military"

Wait, they RAPED and BEAT UP a PREGNANT WOMAN?

That isnt right, that just isnt fething right, no matter how you look at it, no matter how you think of feel about it there is no way in hel that that is accptable in any corner of the world. Those vermin deserve maximum sentencing for what they have done, especially the one that was already under investigation.

What the feth is wrong with the US military?

This isn't exactly something that is a US military exclusive...

 master of ordinance wrote:
Wait, they RAPED and BEAT UP a PREGNANT WOMAN?

That isnt right, that just isnt fething right, no matter how you look at it, no matter how you think of feel about it there is no way in hel that that is accptable in any corner of the world. Those vermin deserve maximum sentencing for what they have done, especially the one that was already under investigation.

What the feth is wrong with the US military?

Nothing, but if they did what they are accused of, something is seriously wrong with these individuals.

Actually there's plenty wrong with the US military, Kronk.

For example, did you know that cake is not mandatory?

But seriously, plenty wrong with it. Plenty wrong with every military, but trying to paint the US Military as being a rapefactory is wrong.

I'll point out that SHARP reps at BDE and higher now attend a school which is longer than Ranger School.

It isn't like the DoD is ignoring sexual assault and harassment issues.

http://www.army.mil/article/130255/Increased_SHARP_training_furthers_efforts_to_combat_sexual_abuse/

SHARP "is the number one priority for the Army, it's the number one priority for the secretary of Defense and the Department of Defense".

So winning our nations wars and/or training our troops to do so take a back seat to this issue.

 MrDwhitey wrote:


But seriously, plenty wrong with it. Plenty wrong with every military, but trying to paint the US Military as being a rapefactory is wrong.

Agreed... It is usually more normal to say that the US Military is at the forefront of social issues. Many social experiments have been done and problems "solved" in the military before they were "solved" in normal society.


But as with any large group of people employed in a common cause, there are always going to be a few bad apples in the bunch.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


But as with any large group of people employed in a common cause, there are always going to be a few bad apples in the bunch.

And it can be frustratingly difficult for commanders to chapter out troopers that fit the 'bad apple' category until they really step on their crank good. Often the initial behavior problems and other indicators of a 'bad apple' are not enough to justify kicking them out. Lots of reasons for that I won't get into, but trust me, it can be very frustrating.

 master of ordinance wrote:

What the feth is wrong with the US military?

Its not exactly something that is restricted to the US military but at least in this case no one died. The same can not be said when some Greenjackets did something similar, but arguably worse, in Cyprus.

Whats going on Dakka? No one has blamed the victim yet.

If she hadn't been wearing those tight maternity clothes.... nope, can't do it. Sorry.

Seven hours and not paid

 Ouze wrote:
If she hadn't been wearing those tight maternity clothes.... nope, can't do it. Sorry.

Well, science has shown that pregnant women put off pheremones that increase the sex drives of males around them.... So, if she hadn't been pregnant, all those pheremones wouldn't have messed up the dudes that did this to her...



Did I do that right???






No, I'm not being serious there (well, the pheremone thing, AFAIK is true... but not THAT powerful)

 trexmeyer wrote:
Why do we still have troops in Europe and Japan? Why is the Okinawa rape problem constantly ignored? Why is the military's abuse of women constantly ignored? I know we have veterans on board, can somebody tell us what the feth is going on here?

Well, at least one guy's getting hysterical.

Beyond that, it seems a pair of dudes in Italy raped somebody. We'll have more to give you once the trials are over and we know what's up. I doubt he's going back to work, though.

Was that what you meant?

Thinking its going they're word against her word.

 Jihadin wrote:
Thinking its going they're word against her word.

If they ended up with her purse and clothes, their word is gonna be difficult to believe. Add in if there is any record of the damage they did with the beating, they'll be (rightfully) hosed.

 CptJake wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Thinking its going they're word against her word.

If they ended up with her purse and clothes, their word is gonna be difficult to believe. Add in if there is any record of the damage they did with the beating, they'll be (rightfully) hosed.

Yet no "proof" she was seen by a medical staff to ensure her child was not harmed. As for her panty and purse in the back seat......how many males/females here made out in the back seat of a car

 Jihadin wrote:

As for her panty and purse in the back seat......how many males/females here made out in the back seat of a car

I don't know any woman, let alone a female prostitute near a military base, that would intentionally leave her purse in the care of an effective stranger.

 dogma wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:

As for her panty and purse in the back seat......how many males/females here made out in the back seat of a car

I don't know any woman, let alone a female prostitute near a military base, that would intentionally leave her purse in the care of an effective stranger.

Possible known prostitute. Thinking "money" being these guys are back from a deployment (think its their cap cycle for redeployment back). Seven hours with two "Joe's" flush with cash. They were not in a Red Light District.

Edit

They might have known she was a prostitute.

 Jihadin wrote:
As for her panty and purse in the back seat......how many males/females here made out in the back seat of a car

If she was beaten and raped for several hours there would be a lot of physical evidence of the kind that would be extremely hard to explain away as consensual. There is evidently a lot more here than her word against theirs.

 Jihadin wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Thinking its going they're word against her word.

If they ended up with her purse and clothes, their word is gonna be difficult to believe. Add in if there is any record of the damage they did with the beating, they'll be (rightfully) hosed.

Yet no "proof" she was seen by a medical staff to ensure her child was not harmed. As for her panty and purse in the back seat......how many males/females here made out in the back seat of a car

That is why I used the word 'if'. I honestly have no clue what evidence they have.

I do however have a couple very interesting stories from Panama that would be relevant, but only tell them in person over a beer or bourbon.

Fun Fact: Some of the Cuecos could fool some troops.



Jake

 CptJake wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Thinking its going they're word against her word.

If they ended up with her purse and clothes, their word is gonna be difficult to believe. Add in if there is any record of the damage they did with the beating, they'll be (rightfully) hosed.

Yet no "proof" she was seen by a medical staff to ensure her child was not harmed. As for her panty and purse in the back seat......how many males/females here made out in the back seat of a car

That is why I used the word 'if'. I honestly have no clue what evidence they have.

I do however have a couple very interesting stories from Panama that would be relevant, but only tell them in person over a beer or bourbon.

Fun Fact: Some of the Cuecos could fool some troops.



Jake

I wonder if their Counseling Packet is up to date

 Frazzled wrote:
Why do we have troops still in Europe?

Because someone thought our rape statistics could use a bit of a boost?

 Albatross wrote:
Because someone thought our rape statistics could use a bit of a boost?

I thought it was because we're worried about military powerhouses like Eritrea being able to conquer half the continent with y'all's defense capability standing where it is.

Word is the military planning on moving back a few more core units from Germany to the States.

 Seaward wrote:

 Albatross wrote:
Because someone thought our rape statistics could use a bit of a boost?

I thought it was because we're worried about military powerhouses like Eritrea being able to conquer half the continent with y'all's defense capability standing where it is.

Nah.... not Eritrea, they aren't THAT much of a threat... Now, Lichtenstein on the other hand, holy fethballs you REALLY gotta watch out for them