Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mumblez wrote:
I like large models and fliers even, but I agree that it's a bit silly that 'basic' weapons like the lasgun, boltgun, shoota, etc. have become sort of useless. I wish there was a rule that allowed even these weapons a chance at killing the larger models. Sure, a single lasgun isn't going to do much against a knight, but a hundred lasguns just might damage it.

Yet another concept from Fantasy I love. S3 bows can take down a Necrosphinx, which realistically, if you shoot enough, it would work. Whereas my Gauss rifles, which can kill a Land Raider, can't touch a Wraithknight.

Yeah, I wish there was a rule for this in 40K. Just something to equalize the arms race a little bit. A massed fire of sorts could work, where a unit could choose to fire a volley at a big creature or vehicle and take off a hull point or two. I wouldn't want a mechanic like this to be better at MC killing and vehicle bustin' than dedicated AT weapons obviously, but it would give basic troops more of a chance in the current 40K environment.

I wouldn't mind the arms race as much if it was more organic. I have a great deal of issues with the 'nauts that were released for the orks, but at least their weaponry (well, except for the klaw of gork) fits into the existing arsenal. Orks have shootas. They also have big shootas. Then they have the deffstorm mega-shoota and lastly, the supa-gatler. Same goes for the kustom-mega kannon, it's just a bigger version of the KMB we know and love. My one issue with the space wolf flyers is helfrost. I like the rule and wouldn't mind the whole thing if space wolves had a history of using ice weapons, but they don't. Frost blades and axes are the only things that come to mind, but even those are stated to be energized diamonds in some of the lore. If the new weapon had been a heavy bolter that fired energized diamond-tipped bolts, I would've loved it, but as it is, I'm not too fond of helfrost stuff.

It also worries me regarding the future. If the second codex of 7th edition already has a gun that has a 1 in 6 chance of killing any tyranid MC, what will the last book have? I really hope the designers take a step back and slow it down a bit. I like the idea of escalating warfare and I'm a huge fan of large models, but that doesn't mean I want a cannon that shoots Mephistons.

For me, flyers were the beginning of the end.

I was happy to have them in Apocalypse, as an optional extra to the main game, but as soon as they came into the main book I started squinting my eyes and thinking hard about whether I was happy in the direction GW was going - especially when I bought the WD for the Ork bomma rules then a few months later they were invalidated and I was told I had to buy a new supplement to play with it...

I fear that the djinn is out of the bottle and now that super-heavies are in the main rules, we're stuck with them, for good or ill.

I gave up on 40k because I could not justify with keeping up with the arms race. It was cheaper for me to start another game then try to update my army with the latest toys

Power creep ruins everything

But luckily asides from like 1 person i dont have to deal with it.

Nah, I kind of like the power creep. I feel like each army gets much better at a specific thing (aside from marines, who seem to just get cheaper) What amuses me, is that my Necrons haven't got a 6th, or 7th book, but seem to still be rising in power with the rest of the new releases.

I play mostly only friendly games, I know who the competitive WAAC players are and avoid them. I play with a few tournament goers at my LGS, but they are all good sports, so I don't mind if they trounce me, because I expect it. Plus the matches are usually started with "Hey, can I try my tournament list on you?".

I feel like when I started playing, everything was 3s or 4s to hit and wound. Occasionally a 2 to wound, and from time to time, a 5 or 6. Now units that were never viable have become awesome, new units have emerged and all sorts of fun stuff can come from it. Yes, The screamers with a ++2/++2 is super annoying, and sure wave serpents and wraith knights frustrate me, but I am having more fun in recent times than ever before with the hobby.

Power creep is also Coolness creep, and we all know the rule of cool is the most important rule. Otherwise we wouldn't have a SW dreadnought with giant lightning claws and up to 10 attacks on the charge.

ITS CINEMATIC BRAH PASS THE PRETZELS BRAH 40K 4 LLLYYYFFEEE!!!

Rikerwota wrote:
For me, flyers were the beginning of the end.

I was happy to have them in Apocalypse, as an optional extra to the main game, but as soon as they came into the main book I started squinting my eyes and thinking hard about whether I was happy in the direction GW was going - especially when I bought the WD for the Ork bomma rules then a few months later they were invalidated and I was told I had to buy a new supplement to play with it...

I fear that the djinn is out of the bottle and now that super-heavies are in the main rules, we're stuck with them, for good or ill.

Seriously, when most flyers enter the table you can't even see most of your models anymore. They look cool in pictures but wreak havoc with gameplay. Old school fast-skimmer (i.e. Helicopter) rules worked fine.

 Mumblez wrote:


Yeah, I wish there was a rule for this in 40K. Just something to equalize the arms race a little bit. A massed fire of sorts could work, where a unit could choose to fire a volley at a big creature or vehicle and take off a hull point or two. I wouldn't want a mechanic like this to be better at MC killing and vehicle bustin' than dedicated AT weapons obviously, but it would give basic troops more of a chance in the current 40K environment.

I wouldn't mind the arms race as much if it was more organic. I have a great deal of issues with the 'nauts that were released for the orks, but at least their weaponry (well, except for the klaw of gork) fits into the existing arsenal. Orks have shootas. They also have big shootas. Then they have the deffstorm mega-shoota and lastly, the supa-gatler. Same goes for the kustom-mega kannon, it's just a bigger version of the KMB we know and love. My one issue with the space wolf flyers is helfrost. I like the rule and wouldn't mind the whole thing if space wolves had a history of using ice weapons, but they don't. Frost blades and axes are the only things that come to mind, but even those are stated to be energized diamonds in some of the lore. If the new weapon had been a heavy bolter that fired energized diamond-tipped bolts, I would've loved it, but as it is, I'm not too fond of helfrost stuff.

It also worries me regarding the future. If the second codex of 7th edition already has a gun that has a 1 in 6 chance of killing any tyranid MC, what will the last book have? I really hope the designers take a step back and slow it down a bit. I like the idea of escalating warfare and I'm a huge fan of large models, but that doesn't mean I want a cannon that shoots Mephistons.

Lol, shooting Mephsitons. That will probably happen, honestly. >.< But you make a good point, that flyer is way too obnoxious, and the reason being is so that people will buy the new $100 model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Nah, I kind of like the power creep. I feel like each army gets much better at a specific thing (aside from marines, who seem to just get cheaper) What amuses me, is that my Necrons haven't got a 6th, or 7th book, but seem to still be rising in power with the rest of the new releases.

I play mostly only friendly games, I know who the competitive WAAC players are and avoid them. I play with a few tournament goers at my LGS, but they are all good sports, so I don't mind if they trounce me, because I expect it. Plus the matches are usually started with "Hey, can I try my tournament list on you?".

I feel like when I started playing, everything was 3s or 4s to hit and wound. Occasionally a 2 to wound, and from time to time, a 5 or 6. Now units that were never viable have become awesome, new units have emerged and all sorts of fun stuff can come from it. Yes, The screamers with a ++2/++2 is super annoying, and sure wave serpents and wraith knights frustrate me, but I am having more fun in recent times than ever before with the hobby.

Power creep is also Coolness creep, and we all know the rule of cool is the most important rule. Otherwise we wouldn't have a SW dreadnought with giant lightning claws and up to 10 attacks on the charge.

Yes and no. Seeing a cool model on the board is one thing, but them making a newer, expensive model that's obviously better than most other options in the codex just so you can go buy a bunch of them, kinda sucks.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Lol, shooting Mephsitons. That will probably happen, honestly. >.< But you make a good point, that flyer is way too obnoxious, and the reason being is so that people will buy the new $100 model.

When I saw the thread about the rules for the new flyer my thought was "and the arms race continues."

Take the Stormwolf. It's a flyer...and it can shred anything from a tank downwards...and it's a transport...and it's an assault vehicle...and it has POTMS...and it's got Helfrost. It does everything except make a cup of tea. I think they went a tiny bit overboard on this one.

 Fezman wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Lol, shooting Mephsitons. That will probably happen, honestly. >.< But you make a good point, that flyer is way too obnoxious, and the reason being is so that people will buy the new $100 model.

When I saw the thread about the rules for the new flyer my thought was "and the arms race continues."

Take the Stormwolf. It's a flyer...and it can shred anything from a tank downwards...and it's a transport...and it's an assault vehicle...and it has POTMS...and it's got Helfrost. It does everything except make a cup of tea. I think they went a tiny bit overboard on this one.

Yes, absolutely. Once again, Space Marines +1. honestly, a different looking Storm Raven with maybe some different gun options would have been enough. Even though I still think the Storm raven is still a bit obnoxious.