Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey Dakka, this is somewhat of a noob question.

Only recently has me and my friends gotten somewhat into Infinity. Right now we have been playing a number of 200 pt games, Where i am mostly playing Caledonian Ariadna sectorial and my one friend who i have been playing a bunch of games with has been playing Tohaa.

I have only won a single game against him, and that was towards the beginning when we started playing. Every time he wins it seems to come down to one thing. He usually combat jumps a guy with Symbiote armor and a Spitfire (I forgot the name of the figure) right behind my lines before thoroughly slaughtering most guys he can see. Usually when he wins like this he says "You need to have good rearguard."

I have tried several lists against this, but nothing ever seems to work. The last time he won like this and he said i need rearguard i basically told him, "So what you are saying is that i need to have most of my guys facing backwards at all times, while at the same time ignoring all that is going on in front of me. I can't actually move my guys forward, have them facing forward in case of ARO and at the same time focusing on every single place he might be able to combat jump.

If i get first turn, i end up moving some guys into position against the enemy at the opposite end of the table, trying to complete objectives or get into good positions. If i deploy first then i try and get a good enough facing that i might deal with the combat jumper. Yet he always seems to find the exact place where i don't have anything to deal with him, like jumping him on top of a building just barely out of LOS from my HMG, and so on.

I'm not sure what i could possibly do. I have been coming up with multiple combinations of lists and stragegies to compete against this, but i'm coming to my wits end.

Has anybody had to deal with something like this? What do you think might be an effective counter to combat jumpers?

Yeah the Gao-Tarsos HMG is rough to deal with since it has two wounds and decent ARM; it's one of the best ADs in the game because of the ability to take hits and keep chugging. When you're dealing with Rambos like that you have two options: Slow it down and/or Stop it.

Slowing it down: The idea is to make your opponent spend orders to get into position to target models. More orders he has spend to get one of your models in LoF the less models he can kill. There's a couple ways you do this, first by spreading out your deployment and getting models into total cover in buildings or rooftops. The other is with Camo troops, the Gao-Tarsos has to Discover at -3 to shoot them so it slows down. If the Gao-Tarsos fails his discover roll he can't try again until next turn which leaves your opponent with the dilemma of bypassing it and risking an ARO. Another way is using sacrificial Smoke dispensers like Highlanders to delay, doesn't protect models once your opponent learns he can Suppressing Fire through smoke but does drain orders since Suppressing is a long skill and can sometimes force flubbed rolls with a -6 to hit through the smoke.

Stopping it: Caledonians don't really have good Fire or mine access but does have T2 and EXP ammo. For the facing issues, Camo markers have 360 facing so they can "look" multiple directions at once. T2 Caterans and Scot 2nd Battalions have some nasty AROs that could stop the Gao-Tarsos in one hit. Another trick is stacking multiple Camo troops underneath one Camo marker then hitting it with 2-3 AROs at the same time when he's only expecting 1. Taking a few cheap chain rifle mooks (Highlanders and Volunteers) to guard table edges and open spaces can also work to cover your backfield.

As you're running a sectorial list any 4 + link teams get sixth sense lvl 2 which makes being attacked from out of LOS slightly less painful as you get to react simultaneously. Also your links get B2 so even a well positioned link with 3 guys will potentially be able to cover multiple landing areas with B2 aros. And if that is with nasty ammo types like T2 so much the better.

Yeah, the Gao Tarsos is a tough one. It's up there with the Ragik in terms of sheer power for an AD troop, but it, IMO trumps the Ragik because of Symbiont armour. A Ragik needs to activate Dogged to keep on shooting after being hit then outright dies once you're done, but the Gao Tarsos simply loses Symbiont armour and keeps shooting, and then is still alive at the end.

Caledonia is honestly a veteran-tier army. I know good players who struggle with it - your going to be at a severe disadvantage if your just learning the game with it. The single best thing you can do is switch to vanilla Ariadna until your comfortable with the game.

If your dead set on Caledonia, then stick lots of chain rifle chaff (galwegian, cameronian, or chain volunteer) throughout your deployment zone that will auto-hit it when it comes down - as Caledonia you have some of the best chain chaff access in the game, plus many of those units have smoke too which can obscure his vision and burn orders, so use it!

If he's AD2ing it to avoid the scatter roll (which he should be), then concentrate templates on corners at the edge of your deployment zone.

In either case, make sure everything is scattered to avoid giving him easy targets. Consider anything he can engage dead, so if he can find five dudes hiding together he's going to kill them all - spread them and put them behind corners etc so he must spend a lot of orders moving to bring each target into LoS

Multiple linked troops with SWC costing weapons on a building with a good view will also deny huge areas of the table to him as landing points due to the AROs he'll pick up.

AD seems ridiculous when you just start, but trust me when I say its actually perfectly easy to deal with once you know how.

Oh wow, thanks guys this is all great advice. I have tried using 4+ link team but at 200 points it usually just allows him to much easier find a place in which to find a place to land.

I have not tried Chain Chaff though, and i like the idea, also of using multiple people under the same camo marker.

Thanks guys, time to see how it goes.

In Caledonia, an SAS CRAP and SAS FO under the same camo marker is a good way to deploy them if going second.

Place them in total cover near an objective, and your opponent will expect only an FO. Then the close quarters nightmare that is an SAS emerges and lays waste.

Keep in mind, HMG's are going to get a nerf at close range in N3. They won't be the be all end all for AD3 troops any more.

Make sure you're using enough terrain for the game also. Having too may open areas will let rampaging AD3 troops get their rampage on in your backfield.

You want drop troops to have to make hard decisions on where to land, either in an open space with troops covering it, or away from your troops.

Also, Camo changes will remove first striking from camo markers. They may get a little better due to the -3 BS from return fire though.

What are the preferred tactics over all of the factions in dealing with AD troops? Any unique to a particular faction?

ski2060 wrote:
Keep in mind, HMG's are going to get a nerf at close range in N3. They won't be the be all end all for AD3 troops any more.

Make sure you're using enough terrain for the game also. Having too may open areas will let rampaging AD3 troops get their rampage on in your backfield.

Both of these are very valid points. Personally I'm going from "HMG/spitfire AD all day every day" to pretty much never using those on account of most AD combat happening at short range.

What are the preferred tactics over all of the factions in dealing with AD troops? Any unique to a particular faction?

Its all just variations of the same thing really - however, my answer to pretty much everything is "drop a chain template on it". Watch landing sites, board edges, vital corners etc w/ chain rifles, mines, rifles and what not. Deploy troops in a manner that will make it difficult for an AD trooper to rack up his kills - geography is the best defense in the game.

 Daba wrote:
What are the preferred tactics over all of the factions in dealing with AD troops? Any unique to a particular faction?

Mines, Auxilia (AoE template) and TR remote. Anything else involves a model or two looking at the sidelines, perhaps occasional TO with MSR.

Hacking combat drop troops is always fun but Ariadna. :(

If it was regular Ariadna my 2 cents would be MINES! Mine all the areas you think they will land or edges they will come in on. Caledonia doesn't have any I think. So what I would do is cheap troops with template weapons like Volunteers with chain rifles covering those areas. Remember to have some guys facing towards the back and sides. Everything is about deployment and taking a look at your own deployment to see where he is likely to go and plan accordingly.

Cover ALL LoF's. Prefferably with good reactive units.
Look to what formations have worked succesfully in the past.
In some cases a simple Box formation may be the key.
But on other cases the thin red line might be the key.
First and foremost adapt. Be flexible.
Change your game up if need be.