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 Wayshuba wrote:

GW also shows no sign of letting up on the price increases. I have never seen a single company in my life (that being only a short 50 years), continue to ratchet up pricing this fast. It speaks volumes to this one thing: GW knows they are in very serious trouble, but they don't know why they are. They have managed to cover up the customer losses for the last decade with the price increases, so why not do that even harder than ever before.

Ummm...GW hasn't done annual price increases for two years now. Sure, their new releases seem to get gradually more expensive, but that seems to be how some other notable miniatures companies handle things as well (Privateer Press, most notably). In fact, GW has began to accompany their releases with box deals with moderate discounts, instead of those stupid one-click bundles with no discount.
And yes, I've seen worse price increases. Just got to discontinue certain service from Finnish postal service, whichs price had been hiked up 200% in four years. I moved it to another provider, from where I get it free...

Unfortunately, maybe revenue decline convinces GW that skipping the price increases was a big mistake. In fact, the cause-effect is astonishingly clear...as soon as they discontinued annual price hikes, their revenues went flat or declined.

 Theophony wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

Hopefully GW can right the ship or it's not as bad as predicted. It would suck to have to learn to play Warmachine

Truer words have never been spoken .

Hey, I made the switch and I love it. I actually feel like all the models I have are relevant to the game, and so are my tactics. That's part of GW's problem: other companies are putting out great products now, and so they're going to have an even harder time winning those customers back. Even if you don't like Warmachine, there's probably something else out there you can find that you very well might like better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Backfire wrote:

 Wayshuba wrote:

GW also shows no sign of letting up on the price increases. I have never seen a single company in my life (that being only a short 50 years), continue to ratchet up pricing this fast. It speaks volumes to this one thing: GW knows they are in very serious trouble, but they don't know why they are. They have managed to cover up the customer losses for the last decade with the price increases, so why not do that even harder than ever before.

Ummm...GW hasn't done annual price increases for two years now. Sure, their new releases seem to get gradually more expensive, but that seems to be how some other notable miniatures companies handle things as well (Privateer Press, most notably). In fact, GW has began to accompany their releases with box deals with moderate discounts, instead of those stupid one-click bundles with no discount.
And yes, I've seen worse price increases. Just got to discontinue certain service from Finnish postal service, whichs price had been hiked up 200% in four years. I moved it to another provider, from where I get it free...

Unfortunately, maybe revenue decline convinces GW that skipping the price increases was a big mistake. In fact, the cause-effect is astonishingly clear...as soon as they discontinued annual price hikes, their revenues went flat or declined.

Have you not noticed that the price of the core rules jumped $10 (which makes it a $35 increase in about 2 years time from 5th), codices are being split into multiple ones and sold for the same price, and DLC that could've been part of books that have just been released is instead being posted at nearly the same time to fleece buyers for even more money?

Honestly sounds like its written by a child.

Backfire wrote:

 Wayshuba wrote:

GW also shows no sign of letting up on the price increases. I have never seen a single company in my life (that being only a short 50 years), continue to ratchet up pricing this fast. It speaks volumes to this one thing: GW knows they are in very serious trouble, but they don't know why they are. They have managed to cover up the customer losses for the last decade with the price increases, so why not do that even harder than ever before.

Ummm...GW hasn't done annual price increases for two years now. Sure, their new releases seem to get gradually more expensive, but that seems to be how some other notable miniatures companies handle things as well (Privateer Press, most notably). In fact, GW has began to accompany their releases with box deals with moderate discounts, instead of those stupid one-click bundles with no discount.
And yes, I've seen worse price increases. Just got to discontinue certain service from Finnish postal service, whichs price had been hiked up 200% in four years. I moved it to another provider, from where I get it free...

Unfortunately, maybe revenue decline convinces GW that skipping the price increases was a big mistake. In fact, the cause-effect is astonishingly clear...as soon as they discontinued annual price hikes, their revenues went flat or declined.

Yup, now they do all year long, so much better.

It should only take one half-wit at GW to realize it is declining sales volume and market share that are pushing GW's profits down. The fact they don't get this is why they're hurting.

Higher prices were driven by margin growth at the expense of volume, because GW was working on the premise of selling the most exclusive, in demand products, in the hobby and toy market. 2 years ago it was at the point where it's price increases lead to decreased sales volume but was able to atleast maintain flat profits. It's obviously hit a tipping point, where prices are met with diminishing returns. If GW is satisfied with its level of profitability it should freeze prices to where they were 2 years ago. If it wants to be more profitable it then has to look at market growth or volume growth to drive that.

The simplest to pursue is market growth, unfortunately they're approaching that by diversifying their market presence in this case allowing the licensing for books and video games. Ideally they'd grow their hobby portion of the market by finding ways to get gamers of other games to reconsider GW games or non-gamers to consider at all.

That has the secondary effect of increasing sales volume but without forcing GW to do something it'd never do, lower prices. If it only wanted to increase volume price drops or volume discounts are the only direct way but diminish "branding," some GW uses to sell its stocks to shareholders.

Backfire wrote:

 Wayshuba wrote:

GW also shows no sign of letting up on the price increases. I have never seen a single company in my life (that being only a short 50 years), continue to ratchet up pricing this fast. It speaks volumes to this one thing: GW knows they are in very serious trouble, but they don't know why they are. They have managed to cover up the customer losses for the last decade with the price increases, so why not do that even harder than ever before.

Ummm...GW hasn't done annual price increases for two years now. Sure, their new releases seem to get gradually more expensive, but that seems to be how some other notable miniatures companies handle things as well (Privateer Press, most notably). In fact, GW has began to accompany their releases with box deals with moderate discounts, instead of those stupid one-click bundles with no discount.
And yes, I've seen worse price increases. Just got to discontinue certain service from Finnish postal service, whichs price had been hiked up 200% in four years. I moved it to another provider, from where I get it free...

Unfortunately, maybe revenue decline convinces GW that skipping the price increases was a big mistake. In fact, the cause-effect is astonishingly clear...as soon as they discontinued annual price hikes, their revenues went flat or declined.

Considering they are mainly selling to a declining veteran customer base, they have in fact been consistently increasing prices on newer releases.

Scions were a 70% price increase over the previous Kaskrin boxed set.

New SW flying dumpster is $81. Space Marine Storm Talon is $45.50. Equivalent sized models only one has a 44% price increase.

White Dwarf monthly to weekly was also a 100% price increase.

I could go on but I won't. Instead of the annual 8%-10% across the board, you are now getting 40%-100% price increases on new stuff. Which hits the existing customers harder?

 Wayshuba wrote:
New SW flying dumpster is $81. Space Marine Storm Talon is $45.50. Equivalent sized models only one has a 44% price increase.

SW flyer is storm raven sized, so $1.50 discount.

And it should be pointed out that PP have priced some people out too- I used to be a pretty contented customer of Privateer Press, but issues with the materials and the price have stopped me buying any new stuff in two years.

 Da Boss wrote:
And it should be pointed out that PP have priced some people out too- I used to be a pretty contented customer of Privateer Press, but issues with the materials and the price have stopped me buying any new stuff in two years.

While true, the difference for me is that buying a box of PP models feels like a better investment. For instance, I have zero problem buying a Winter Guard unit for $50, plus Officer & Standard (~$15). I would (and have!) balked at buying a squad of anything from GW, because I know that I need more than one to actually use it; I'm not just buying one Tactical Squad, I need two, or three, plus transports, so I'm looking at $80+ a unit and need 2-3 units. On the flipside, that box of WGI is a big chunk of my force, not a fraction.

That's just me though. I have no problem buying anything from PP, but won't buy anything from GW because the value feels a lot less.

 Da Boss wrote:
And it should be pointed out that PP have priced some people out too- I used to be a pretty contented customer of Privateer Press, but issues with the materials and the price have stopped me buying any new stuff in two years.

Yeah, that's a good point, a lot of people have pointed out that PP's models are just as expensive as GW's, which they essentially are. Also consider that by all accounts, PP and Warmahordes continue to grow. I would contend GW would not have to actually lower prices if they put more effort into what they're actually producing; i.e. balanced codices, tight rules, and great sculpts. That's why, IMO, it's more of an argument for better value than better prices.

Partially agreed. With PP, I just don't like the big metal miniatures very much. I transported them in foam to germany, and they still ended up in pieces (chipped pieces) when they got there, despite all being pinned, greenstuffed and super glued. At such a steep price and such difficult assembly (I hate assembly), I am deeply unimpressed at the lack of durability of the miniatures. So if they were hard plastic or decent resin, I wouldn't mind, but metal is not a good material for models as bulky as Mulg the Ancient. Their plastic is not very good either though, with difficult to remove mold lines, and sometimes shallow detail or slippage.

The game is actually awesome, and I really enjoy playing it. It's sort of the opposite to GW- their miniatures are often a joy to put together and stay together really well because they are mostly hard plastic, but their rules are just god awful. On balance, I think PP is a better company, but I am not motivated to rebuild my stuff or buy any new stuff since that minor catastrophe.

Both price their miniatures so high that they need to add a LOT of value for me to consider purchasing them, as the miniatures themselves don't justify the price. PP can probably get away with that because they're not paying a large legal team, a giant store network and shareholders.

But as people say, you need fewer PP for an army and the rules are better, which is why PP are still growing, no doubt. I'm just happier in historicals and less pricey producers for Fantasy.

Anyhow. I'm sure this is a little off topic.

 slowthar wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
And it should be pointed out that PP have priced some people out too- I used to be a pretty contented customer of Privateer Press, but issues with the materials and the price have stopped me buying any new stuff in two years.

Yeah, that's a good point, a lot of people have pointed out that PP's models are just as expensive as GW's, which they essentially are. Also consider that by all accounts, PP and Warmahordes continue to grow. I would content GW would not have to actually lower prices if they put more effort into what they're actually producing; i.e. balanced codices, tight rules, and great sculpts. That's why, IMO, it's more of an argument for better value than better prices.

Not to derail this that much further. The difference as Wayne pointed out is that a $50 box is a one time purchase and thats really all you will ever need from that unit. The other BIG thing is PP has stated time and again that NO UNIT WILL EVER BE TAKEN OUT OF THE GAME. Meaning that the box of WGI was usable 10 years ago (during MK1) and will be usable in the future. Not on the whim of a new codex to get people to buy the new kits.....

PP has also lowered the price of every model/unit they have retooled from White Metal to Plastics, passing the material savings onto the customer.

GW I think has forgotten a lot from its early days.

Question for Wayshuba. If GW were able to secure financing to restructure their business model would it make a difference? Or in your opinion is it too little to late regardless of what the do?

 slowthar wrote:

Even if you don't like Warmachine, there's probably something else out there you can find that you very well might like better.

This. I don't think most GW fans realise just how bogglingly diverse the wargaming hobby is; you just have to look around a bit. And they're not all (or have to be) prepackaged 'one click bundles' consisting of a great, thick, full-colour rulebook, a unique (or rehashed) background, and an accompanying range of specifically designed unique characters and races. Not to mention branded measuring tapes, hobby equipment, paints, dice etc. etc. Even in that case rules, minis and background are pretty easy to seperate, and you can keep two out of three if one doesn't suit you. (Rather than, e.g., take the bizarre stance of "I'm not buying any more GW minis so I have to sell the thousands of pounds' worth I already own".)

WayneTheGame wrote:

While true, the difference for me is that buying a box of PP models feels like a better investment. For instance, I have zero problem buying a Winter Guard unit for $50, plus Officer & Standard (~$15). I would (and have!) balked at buying a squad of anything from GW, because I know that I need more than one to actually use it; I'm not just buying one Tactical Squad, I need two, or three, plus transports, so I'm looking at $80+ a unit and need 2-3 units. On the flipside, that box of WGI is a big chunk of my force, not a fraction.

That's just me though. I have no problem buying anything from PP, but won't buy anything from GW because the value feels a lot less.

And this is exactly why GW needs a good smaller scale skirmish game. Or two.

Unfortunately I don't think this report is very telling of how bad they will end up, so the directors may not get the hint..

It's pretty obvious that the CEO believes his own preamble, and the important thing to take away from it (other than when he wrote it he was at least unprofessionally emotional at best, drunk at worst) is that they believe that the reduction of costs has been mitigated by expenditures of "one off costs"..
In other words, to their minds they've spent money to save money therefore should not only see more profit, but KIRBY honestly believes that sales will increase as early as next year (but gives no reason for it). To those who are unaware of the customer relations issue then all the numbers are lining up for extra dividends.

Here's my 2c, the largest shareholders are most likely the directors themselves, this bodes badly as the payment of dividends during 2012/13 means they built they're parachutes rather than the company.. Meaning that revenue slowed and costs had to be save to continue profit.. I thought the saying "if you don't grow you slow" was evident to all large businesses but it's clear the directors believe this is an private club and not a business with competition.

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!!
"Risks and uncertainties
...
The bigger risk is the same one I repeat each year, and that is management. So long as we have great people we will be fine. Problems will arise if the board allows egos and private agendas to rule."
I don't need to put my 2c in for this one.. It's clear this is a direct "calm the hell down, I'm the captain" to the directors..
Whilst we won't ever know the details clearly Kirby doesn't have things completely under control.

I find it funny that the is both resigning because of the screw up and hand picking his successor.

You can't hand pick your successor in a public company, it's voted by the directors.. Not sure where you heard that?

Will he have the biggest say? Yes
Does he hold away over many of the directors votes? Probably
Will the CEO come front the directors ranks? Most likely,
if they didn't give a clear indication of the experience and education/contacts required for the job, then there's more than a chance this is all just legally required smoke.

But as I stated before kirby has given a direct and public warning for the management to work as a team.. And not "pursue private agendas", so anything can happen in the AGM when the votes are tallied.

xxvaderxx wrote:
I find it funny that the is both resigning because of the screw up and hand picking his successor.

But that isn't the case at all. He's only stepping down from the CEO position, because he can't legally be both CEO and chairman at the same time for very long. As far as he and the board are concerned, he's done nothing wrong.

 Crimson wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

While true, the difference for me is that buying a box of PP models feels like a better investment. For instance, I have zero problem buying a Winter Guard unit for $50, plus Officer & Standard (~$15). I would (and have!) balked at buying a squad of anything from GW, because I know that I need more than one to actually use it; I'm not just buying one Tactical Squad, I need two, or three, plus transports, so I'm looking at $80+ a unit and need 2-3 units. On the flipside, that box of WGI is a big chunk of my force, not a fraction.

That's just me though. I have no problem buying anything from PP, but won't buy anything from GW because the value feels a lot less.

And this is exactly why GW needs a good smaller scale skirmish game. Or two.

You could say they already have one. 40k imo already works fine at 500-750 points. It's at normal point levels that it becomes a clunky mess.

I know what you're saying though - GW need a game specifically catered to smaller skirmish games. But they also need a game catered to large-scale games, as well as apocolyptic games (those two should be kept seperate). They should also be expanding into other game systems entirely but that's another point entirely.

Holy crap had a read through again, I can't belie I missed this "jewel-like" little gem.

"We have no intention to acquire other companies, nor dispose of any of those we own."
** um... The decision to cease production of, and yet threaten litigation to any who attempt to resume the use of specialist games such as Space hulk, blood bowl, and very soon LotR/Hobbit can be directly defined as "disposing"***

"We return all our surplus cash to our owners and try to do so in ever increasing amounts. As a consequence it is probable the share price will rise. But we have no control over that. You do."
***This is either the biggest tugfest of spin-doctoring or further confirms my theory that the only shareholders of note are staff/director members***

KommissarKarl wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

While true, the difference for me is that buying a box of PP models feels like a better investment. For instance, I have zero problem buying a Winter Guard unit for $50, plus Officer & Standard (~$15). I would (and have!) balked at buying a squad of anything from GW, because I know that I need more than one to actually use it; I'm not just buying one Tactical Squad, I need two, or three, plus transports, so I'm looking at $80+ a unit and need 2-3 units. On the flipside, that box of WGI is a big chunk of my force, not a fraction.

That's just me though. I have no problem buying anything from PP, but won't buy anything from GW because the value feels a lot less.

And this is exactly why GW needs a good smaller scale skirmish game. Or two.

You could say they already have one. 40k imo already works fine at 500-750 points. It's at normal point levels that it becomes a clunky mess.

I know what you're saying though - GW need a game specifically catered to smaller skirmish games. But they also need a game catered to large-scale games, as well as apocolyptic games (those two should be kept seperate). They should also be expanding into other game systems entirely but that's another point entirely.

My store plays at 1999+1. The cost of a Space Marine army for 2000 points is ridiculous.

(I have no idea how many points this is, but you get the point.)
Centurians - $78
Land Raider - $74
Stalker - $65
Thunder Fire Cannon - $56
Dreadnaught - $46
Tac squad - $40
Tac squad - $40
Rhino - $37
Rhino - $37
Space Marine Captain - $30
7th edition rules - $85
SM Codex - $58

Total = $646

 darefsky wrote:
Question for Wayshuba. If GW were able to secure financing to restructure their business model would it make a difference? Or in your opinion is it too little to late regardless of what the do?

That would be one part of the equation. But unless the business model, management, and culture changes, it is simply going to be throwing good money after bad.

For example, when Steve Jobs first came back to Apple, he soon realized they were six months from death's doorstep. He quickly focused on getting financing in the form of a $150m investment from Microsoft. The rest, as they say, is history.

GW has some very serious structural issues. Outside investment (which they could raise by selling more stock into the market), would prolong the agony, but it won't fix a terribly run business.

Aye but my point is that you can play around with a starter set and a couple of boxes and you'll have a blast. It's at the 1750+ point range that the game grinds to a halt and becomes a chore to play imo.

If I were head of rules development, I would start from scratch. Release Warhammer 40k - 1st Edition, as a medium-sized ruleset, in current point values the 1250-2000 point range. Then I'd release a skirmish ruleset for small batlles, and an epic ruleset for titans, super heavies etc.

He never does wrong.

On a personal point of discussion, I went to the local shops today and saw a few of the not price hikes. Instead of a shrinking wall of product being taken up by alternatives, there is an increasing wall of product unsold. It hasn't changed by much as the rest of the industry is pushing it out of the way.

DEADZONE is pretty good looking in person, if you got in on that KS, your getting quite a haul of gear in there. I saw some of the stuff in the flesh. Some of the guys are crap, but overall, Mantic has a really good product there.

21.00 for 1 multipart plastic hero miniature in plastic sealed container, you can see what its supposed to be on one side, then see the parts of the shrinking hero's on the other. Figure is shrinking in scale.

45.00 for a three figure set. This case a couple of shootier looking ork artillery with 5 grots in there. The other example was a couple of Ork mega armor guys.

51.00 for a vehicle. 1 was the new RG 33/ 40k version. The other was a truck with a couple of boyz with it. (truck mob) Third was a FIST team with Chimera.

75.00 for a Landraider, Ork baby Stompa, or Demony skully-thing. ( Smaller then the transformer, bigger then a Dread.)

130.00 for the transformer/ night/ elder G.I.Joe walker. (Titan of sorts.)

200.00 was larger sets such as the IG trench line/ cannon, and Necron flying castle.

THEN there was the "Battleboard." I'll just go on and say that that will be sitting around for awhile. I didn't even think they made prices like that.

While I was there, two different people walked over to the wall, took one look at a box or two and just put it back without a word.



While that is happening, The FFG wall is growing, and that new rebel ship from the 1st Star Wars movie is as impressive as hell. Its friggin Huge....
There are several other games that are taking on more wall space, as well as quite a few more Clickies that are seriously taking on some of GW's ways and means. ( Boxed games, Scenario packs, Taking on the current Superhero craze, and the quickly upcoming Guardians stuff, JLA, and Avengers/ X men cross over stuff.
There is also a couple of new larger sized kits, as well as some larger game boxes such as the JLA Vs Legion of Doom thing going on...


GW's Fantasy line here is pretty much dead. A few older kits, smaller numbers of the newer stuff... that stuff is getting pushed over under the 40K side, which is pushing into it's old space.


On the RPG front, FFG is looking pretty darned good. I still think Only War is their best yet. Star Wars is ok, but some of that is a little disheartening, and I'm not seeing them lasting very long. AND D and D is back, with a whole new line of stuff...

I am within a cross hair of buying not only an OS Redbox, but the Advanced as well. ALONG with a couple of old school D and D books, that today I almost peed myself over. Used and used well, but available.

THEN there is the resurgence of Battletech. That is looking pretty darned sweet as well, and I just want to go on record and say that my little brother needs his hindquarters kicked in for what he did to my old set of the stuff. It was a pretty substantial collection that went to wherever.

 Inquisitor Bob wrote:
<snip>... that the only shareholders of note are staff/director members***

Shareholders list for your perusal.

The shareholders who hold over 3% of the total ordinary share capital of Games Workshop Group PLC, are as follows:


Shareholder # shares Percentage

Investec Asset Management Limited 3,087,765 9.7
Ruffer LLP 2,492,260 7.8
Tom Kirby 2,131,394 6.7
Phoenix Asset Management Partners Limited 1,865,218 5.9
FIL Limited 1,753,900 5.5
Legal and General Group plc 1,683,901 5.3
Schroders plc 1,677,861 5.3
Aberforth Partners LLP 1,636,300 5.1
Artemis Investment Management LLP 1,620,001 5.1

Information correct at 10 March 2014

I lack the skill or patience to get that to format nicely I'm afraid.

Edit: Should have just linked it

http://investor.games-workshop.com/shareholder-statistics/

 Inquisitor Bob wrote:
"We have no intention to acquire other companies, nor dispose of any of those we own."
** um... The decision to cease production of, and yet threaten litigation to any who attempt to resume the use of specialist games such as Space hulk, blood bowl, and very soon LotR/Hobbit can be directly defined as "disposing"***

That quote says that they're not intending to dispose of any subsidiary companies, not games.

"We return all our surplus cash to our owners and try to do so in ever increasing amounts. As a consequence it is probable the share price will rise. But we have no control over that. You do."
***This is either the biggest tugfest of spin-doctoring or further confirms my theory that the only shareholders of note are staff/director members***

You don't need to theorise. The major stockholders are a matter of public record. They're mostly professsional investment companies.

I stand corrected, in that case his rant was directed to.... Who?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My point is I don't understand his meaning when he says "we don't have control over the success of this company.. You do.."

How can shareholder firms control the dividends of GW exactly?

 Wayshuba wrote:

 darefsky wrote:
Question for Wayshuba. If GW were able to secure financing to restructure their business model would it make a difference? Or in your opinion is it too little to late regardless of what the do?

That would be one part of the equation. But unless the business model, management, and culture changes, it is simply going to be throwing good money after bad.

For example, when Steve Jobs first came back to Apple, he soon realized they were six months from death's doorstep. He quickly focused on getting financing in the form of a $150m investment from Microsoft. The rest, as they say, is history.

GW has some very serious structural issues. Outside investment (which they could raise by selling more stock into the market), would prolong the agony, but it won't fix a terribly run business.

I'm of the opinion that Apple are about to go the same way they did in the 80s/90s due to once again going down the exclusive/non compatible route they went before. It just seems to be a similar situation, marketing can only take you so far.

 Bullockist wrote:

 Wayshuba wrote:

 darefsky wrote:
Question for Wayshuba. If GW were able to secure financing to restructure their business model would it make a difference? Or in your opinion is it too little to late regardless of what the do?

That would be one part of the equation. But unless the business model, management, and culture changes, it is simply going to be throwing good money after bad.

For example, when Steve Jobs first came back to Apple, he soon realized they were six months from death's doorstep. He quickly focused on getting financing in the form of a $150m investment from Microsoft. The rest, as they say, is history.

GW has some very serious structural issues. Outside investment (which they could raise by selling more stock into the market), would prolong the agony, but it won't fix a terribly run business.

I'm of the opinion that Apple are about to go the same way they did in the 80s/90s due to once again going down the exclusive/non compatible route they went before. It just seems to be a similar situation, marketing can only take you so far.

I dont know about that. Apple has made giant inroads into the computer world, where they were once under 5% of total users they are closer to 20% now. People are making software for them and apps aplenty. Also add in the crazy amount of money that iTunes brings in and Apple is sitting pretty.

Now to tie this into the GW thread..... Apple has diversified dramatically from the days of the Macintosh. GW is in a world of hurt with essentially having only 1 product (40k)

IMHO GW needs to do a few things and do them fast.

1. Complete overhaul of their board
2. Release as many of the specialist games as they can (as a way to generate revenue) so that they can......
3. Survive long enough to create new core games....while
4. Revamping the flag ship that is 40k. Have an open beta like PP did for MKII (there was a "test" online you could apply for to see if you actually knew what the heck you were talking about when it came to helping them).
5. Make nice with the independants, like really nice.
6. Get someone who has a proven track record with scandle / image consulting to run your new and aggresive social media campaine.

 darefsky wrote:

 slowthar wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
And it should be pointed out that PP have priced some people out too- I used to be a pretty contented customer of Privateer Press, but issues with the materials and the price have stopped me buying any new stuff in two years.

Yeah, that's a good point, a lot of people have pointed out that PP's models are just as expensive as GW's, which they essentially are. Also consider that by all accounts, PP and Warmahordes continue to grow. I would content GW would not have to actually lower prices if they put more effort into what they're actually producing; i.e. balanced codices, tight rules, and great sculpts. That's why, IMO, it's more of an argument for better value than better prices.

Not to derail this that much further. The difference as Wayne pointed out is that a $50 box is a one time purchase and thats really all you will ever need from that unit. The other BIG thing is PP has stated time and again that NO UNIT WILL EVER BE TAKEN OUT OF THE GAME. Meaning that the box of WGI was usable 10 years ago (during MK1) and will be usable in the future. Not on the whim of a new codex to get people to buy the new kits.....

PP has also lowered the price of every model/unit they have retooled from White Metal to Plastics, passing the material savings onto the customer.

GW I think has forgotten a lot from its early days.

Question for Wayshuba. If GW were able to secure financing to restructure their business model would it make a difference? Or in your opinion is it too little to late regardless of what the do?

You guys are also leaving out the elephant in the room: PP has shown time and time again that unlike GW they actually put a lot of time and effort into the rules and balance of their game, and in fact seem to have an opposite view of GW's "beer and pretzels" mentality (the infamous "Page 5"). I have seen that convince many people to switch over to warmahordes despite the similar pricing with GW...