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Any thoughts on AA for a daemon list? I'm finding it a tricky question to answer in my 1500 list. Soul grinders are helpful in a pinch, but they really don't cut it against the stuff that actually needs taking down (flyrants, GK stormravens).

Any thoughts on how I can shoehorn some decent AA into a list at 1500pts? Anything goes really (allies, fortifications), so go crazy.

Daemons Princes are you best option. Vector Strike is a beast against enemy flyers and flying MCs especially since it's AP2 now. If you want to make good of them, Daemon Princes of Slaanesh are your best option. Roll 3 times on Biomancy and pray for Iron Army. Take a Greater Reward (or two) on him and sub 1 of them for the Lash of Despair. 2D6 Str User shots mean you're str 9. Usually killing something outright after you have Vector Striked it.

DP of Slaanesh is the *best* option for sure, but 330 points for something that may or may not pay off isn't exactly a sound investment... If I don't roll up Iron Arm then he's thoroughly underwhelming. This of course will happen when I'm facing two or more Flyrants/Stormravens etc...

When it does go off as planned then he's fantastic, but I'm just not sure I can stomach that rather hefty price point!

Thats the problem. He is our best choice but still isn't actually that good for AA because of reliability on psychic powers. CSM are in the same spot as well with there best option being the Hades Drake.

You have to take a CtA ally if you really want good AA.

 CrownAxe wrote:
You have to take a CtA ally if you really want good AA.

I'm game for that; what did you have in mind?

I'm toying with the idea of an ADL w quad gun manned by bloodletters with their BS5. It's reasonably cheap and the bloodletters won't break if some of them are taken out by shooting.

If you're willing to risk trying to conjure the bloodletter gunners on Turn 1 it would be even cheaper.

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
You have to take a CtA ally if you really want good AA.

I'm game for that; what did you have in mind?

The best IMO is Necrons. a Pair of Nightsythes and an Annihilation Barge is awesome AA and since the only thing you need to deploy is the AnniBarge (HQ and Troops will be in reserves) the downside of CtA basically doesn't exist

 Tonberry7 wrote:
I'm toying with the idea of an ADL w quad gun manned by bloodletters with their BS5. It's reasonably cheap and the bloodletters won't break if some of them are taken out by shooting.

If you're willing to risk trying to conjure the bloodletter gunners on Turn 1 it would be even cheaper.

The thing is, although the ADL is pretty cheap and useful, the quad gun just isn't all that good at what I need it to be good at. It's cheap enough so that I'm not breaking the bank, and the ADL would be great for my horrors, but with the changes to interceptor and grounding tests for FMCs, I'm not sure the quad gun will do enough for my liking. Although it can force jinks on skimmers and flyers at least, so I guess for the points it really isn't bad.

If you have the option to take one, a Fire Raptor Gunship is amazing as well. Mine always over preforms. Making it`s points back with relative ease, even tipping the game scale in my favor most of the times when I`m falling behind.

Actually while I`m on the topic of FW models, Blight Drones work quite nicely as well. Reaper Autocannonts sure, can`t touch AV14, but they are bloody sweet at moping up anything the Flyers are trying to support! And there is always the option of swinging around and attacking rear armor.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
You have to take a CtA ally if you really want good AA.

I'm game for that; what did you have in mind?

The best IMO is Necrons. a Pair of Nightsythes and an Annihilation Barge is awesome AA and since the only thing you need to deploy is the AnniBarge (HQ and Troops will be in reserves) the downside of CtA basically doesn't exist

Yeh Necrons would be a good bet. Would you run just a bare bones lord then? I'd be tempted even to run a barge lord or destroyer lord on his own to go off and cause trouble. Of course if I go investing too many points, I might as well just be playing necrons


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GoliothOnline wrote:
If you have the option to take one, a Fire Raptor Gunship is amazing as well. Mine always over preforms. Making it`s points back with relative ease, even tipping the game scale in my favor most of the times when I`m falling behind.

Phew, can't keep up with the replies, thanks guys! I hear good things about the Fire Raptor actually, where can I find the rules? Are they CSM only?

Here you go man

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/F/fire-raptor.pdf

Its just about how much points you want to commit to your allies. A CCBarge Lord is awesome but after upgrades is like 250 points. If all you're looking for is the AA then you can just take a basic Overlord (probably with a Res Orb since he'll be with your troops) and stick him in the Nightsythe.

Also not a bad idea to take some Storm Cryptek for their assault 4 Haywire gun (since daemons aren't the best against vehicles either)

How's about this for a preliminary list:

Heralds of Chaos
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Exalted Reward; Disc of Tzeentch 150
• Herald of Tzeentch: Psyker (Mastery Level 3); Exalted Reward; Disc of Tzeentch 150

11 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch: Iridescent Horror 104
11 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch: Iridescent Horror 104

8 Screamers of Tzeentch

Soul Grinder: Daemon of Slaanesh; baleful torrent 170
Soul Grinder: Daemon of Slaanesh; baleful torrent 170

Necron Overlord
• 2 Crypteks: Harbinger of the Storm 50

5 Necron Warriors
• Night Scythe
5 Necron Warriors
• Night Scythe

1,518 points

18 points over, that I could fix by dropping two horrors. That would lose me 2WC of course, but the first order of business would be to summon/portalglyph them back (plus grimoire and cursed earth on the screamers).

Just a bit of clarification too: I don't have my necron codex with me; do scythes have any fire points? If not then I'd have to drop the warriors and teks off to get any utility out of their staves right?

I appreciate all the thoughts on this!

Edit: removed some points costs that were a little too obvious.

Scythes don't have fire points but, with their teleport beamer rule, are very good with disembarking since they can do it before moving, after moving any distance, and if the scythe had move 24" or less the unit fires normally

Soul grinders have three str 7 skyfire shots a round, don't they?

Kholzerino wrote:
Soul grinders have three str 7 skyfire shots a round, don't they?

They only have BS3 and are not cheap

Just something to remember, RAW currently states that the Necron CCB can hit flyers with its sweep attacks, they have ruled it this way at several major GTs already.

Ah thanks for the clarification on the scythes. Might just be the way to go then. Obviously I'd like an AB and a CCB in there too, but there's no way I can find the points without making it so much less of a daemon army (and at that point I might as well just run necrons, which I don't want to do right now).

Thanks all for the input (particularly CrownAxe). Best get planning those Dark Mechanicus conversions now...

 GoliothOnline wrote:
If you have the option to take one, a Fire Raptor Gunship is amazing as well. Mine always over preforms. Making it`s points back with relative ease, even tipping the game scale in my favor most of the times when I`m falling behind.

Actually while I`m on the topic of FW models, Blight Drones work quite nicely as well. Reaper Autocannonts sure, can`t touch AV14, but they are bloody sweet at moping up anything the Flyers are trying to support! And there is always the option of swinging around and attacking rear armor.

How do you find people who will allow you to field the Fire Raptor? My local community full of WAAC cheese lists always denies me due to the rules being experimental. 3 riptides is totally cool. Try to field a Fire Raptor? GTFO powergamer. It sucks.

In 6th, I used Flickering Fire on my FMC as anti-air. 2-4D6 str 5 shots in rear av10 gets a lot of glances. 7th has changed psychic shooting attacks, but it can still be decent if opponent doesn't have a good psychic defense. It also forces an opponent to decide, use my warp charges and deny this shooting, or stop the incoming summon spells.

sand.zzz wrote:

 GoliothOnline wrote:
If you have the option to take one, a Fire Raptor Gunship is amazing as well. Mine always over preforms. Making it`s points back with relative ease, even tipping the game scale in my favor most of the times when I`m falling behind.

Actually while I`m on the topic of FW models, Blight Drones work quite nicely as well. Reaper Autocannonts sure, can`t touch AV14, but they are bloody sweet at moping up anything the Flyers are trying to support! And there is always the option of swinging around and attacking rear armor.

How do you find people who will allow you to field the Fire Raptor? My local community full of WAAC cheese lists always denies me due to the rules being experimental. 3 riptides is totally cool. Try to field a Fire Raptor? GTFO powergamer. It sucks.

I've run into jerks like this before, and honest to god, after one did this to me, I ran 3 Wraithknights and they shut up.

I collectively own every army except IG (Fully anyways, got a few tanks lying around but nothing in total to make an army) with a friend of mine who is more of a collector and converter, whilst I'm more list builder. So, basically I went around for a few weeks running 3 Knight 3 Tide lists and they decided to bring FW on their own.

Aside from that, if you find that they don't want YOU to bring FW, then laugh at them and say you think they should simply grow up. FW is perfectly legal and if they want to deny your models simply because they think their rules are broken, point out that the Riptide is the undisputed best MC in the game currently with its loadout and that the Ion Accelerator is undercosted so that GW could move Tau models when the new Dex was out, and they just hopped on the bandwagon. If they continue to give you problems at your local gaming group, I'd say find new people to play against or talk to your FLGS supervisor or TO. Cuz it's pretty ridiculous I know a lot of people don't have the kind of money to be as spiteful as I am when it comes to people denying models, then going out and buying things that completely stomp those said models, so try to be a little nicer I'd say firstly. XD

Well it would be nice if I had the option of reasoning with the all day/every day clique at my GW, but they're kind of like playground bullies and are the epitome of WAAC. I rarely go in there for pick up games.

My flgs has some more down to earth guys, but the core group consists of players that either work there or are there every day - and they are almost as bad as the GW crew.

Luckily I do have a handful of friends who are slightly more fun oriented. I guess it could be worse.

Me again, just looking for any additional thoughts on this really. Any ally options that are on a par with necrons? The new orks could bring traktor kannon, not sure what else. Or Astra militarum? Or even space marines have some decent AA and AT don't they?

Forget AA.

Just spawn more daemons and rock on!

I'm inclined to agree, ignoring is OK.
I've had some luck with a lord of change with flickering fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm inclined to agree, ignoring is OK.
I've had some luck with a lord of change with flickering fire.

New SW fliers is looking to be pretty beefy. IIRC you can have 2 multi meltas, a twin linked lascannon and a turret mounted twin linked S8 ap1 shot. Not as cheap as necron fliers, but still a decent option.