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2014/11/30 08:12:51
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
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 TheKbob wrote:The best game will always be whatever everyone else plays... unless you want to do the hard work to change up a scene.
I'm quite enjoying W/H and Malifaux that I play. Infinity is in flux with 3E, so I don't see that picking up until after the first of the year.
Warmahordes is way harder to master than 40k. While I was beat upon by good opponents when I started 40k, having 15 missile launchers + 30 Grey Hunters put me on a track to success. I can't just buy to win (not even MOAR BANEZ) with my Warmachine.
This was also my impression.
WH is not easier to get into when compared with 40k.
How do you play your Banes?
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Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
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2014/11/30 08:23:44
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/09 19:04:35
Bye bye Dakkadakka, happy hobbying! I really enjoyed my time on here. Opinions were always my own :-) |
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2014/11/30 09:40:17
Subject: Re:Warmachine and WH 40K
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Lieutenant Colonel
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I think most people would say they prefer 40k because of the inspiring setting and art.
This is purely subjective.You like the setting and art style or you do not.
However, other games have rules that are written for the game play, have additional advantage for people who want to actually re create the setting on the table top.
Lots of players of other games like Warmachine , play because they enjoy the rules AND the setting and art style.
40 K players play 40 K despite the rules, not because of them . 
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2014/11/30 14:57:12
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Monstrous Master Moulder
Rust belt
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i play them both, but I much prefer warmachine rules. I find playing 40k is like playing a game of checkers against your buddy and find warmachine like playing a game of chess.
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2014/11/30 15:09:47
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Dakka Veteran
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Deadnight wrote:Remember, the official line is often for tedious legal reasons and to cover pp's back from litigious companies that are over zealous in defending their ip.
It makes perfect sense. And honestly, the only time it would be an issue is in Haight's case of travelling for tourneys. Automatically Appended Next Post:  Bottle wrote:I will never try Warmachine simply because the Final Fantasy meets World of Warcraft aesthetic does nothing for me.
Over the years I have been incredibly frustrated with 40K at times due to balance, but I have also loved playing it. Right now I'm taking a break from 40K and trying WHFB as well as picking up Necromunda again.
For me it's the models and the world they come from that is the most important, and I still think GW is the top of its game in that regard.
But isn't 40k just Heinlein meets Howard?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/30 15:10:50
\m/ |
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2014/12/01 03:10:06
Subject: Re:Warmachine and WH 40K
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Been Around the Block
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Lanrak wrote:I think most people would say they prefer 40k because of the inspiring setting and art.
This is purely subjective.You like the setting and art style or you do not.
However, other games have rules that are written for the game play, have additional advantage for people who want to actually re create the setting on the table top.
Lots of players of other games like Warmachine , play because they enjoy the rules AND the setting and art style.
40 K players play 40 K despite the rules, not because of them .
I agree with this, sadly 40k is totaly unplayabal for me and my local gaming group. After testing other systems, and giving them a fair chans, you can't really go back to 40k...
GW is a miniatures company and I have started making dioramas with the armies i have instead (because i like to paint and convert stuff). I will not buy anything more from them though, unless it is something that is so cool I just have to paint or convert it.
A big point is also that it has never been the prices that drove us away from 40k and Fantasy Battle it was the "RULES" and only the them that made us all quit.. because GW do not make games they make miniatures, they have said so themselves, they dont do market reserch either haha...
We play competitively, I have to use all the cheesy stuff and If I can break the rules I WILL, my whole gaming group is the same.. And if you have that mindset 40k/ WHFB is not a "setting, because they are not rules", that you can use...
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/01 03:15:56
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2014/12/01 06:37:56
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader
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I dislike the fluff because I'm just not into the setting/aesthetics/time period of the WMH universe. Steampunk stuff was never a big draw for me. I like futuristic, space type stuff. I liked the rules for WMH so much that I tried really hard to get into the models/fluff but I couldn't find a single faction that really did it for me. Some of the jacks are kind of cool but the regular units, most casters and the mercenaries just bore me to death. In 40k, I like the looks of all the factions. Sure, there's stuff like murderfang and Logan Clause that I have to overlook, but I could honestly build an army of any faction in 40k and actually get into it. I can't do that with any Warmachine or hordes faction no matter how bad I want to or how hard I try. I go back and forth between the games now. Every time I play 40k I wish the rules were better. Every time I play WMH I wish the models looked cool and made me actually want to paint them instead of just seeing them as game tokens.
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2014/12/01 06:44:46
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Toofast wrote:I dislike the fluff because I'm just not into the setting/aesthetics/time period of the WMH universe. Steampunk stuff was never a big draw for me. I like futuristic, space type stuff. I liked the rules for WMH so much that I tried really hard to get into the models/fluff but I couldn't find a single faction that really did it for me. Some of the jacks are kind of cool but the regular units, most casters and the mercenaries just bore me to death. In 40k, I like the looks of all the factions. Sure, there's stuff like murderfang and Logan Clause that I have to overlook, but I could honestly build an army of any faction in 40k and actually get into it. I can't do that with any Warmachine or hordes faction no matter how bad I want to or how hard I try. I go back and forth between the games now. Every time I play 40k I wish the rules were better. Every time I play WMH I wish the models looked cool and made me actually want to paint them instead of just seeing them as game tokens.
Have you checked out the Cephalyx, or Convergence stuff?
It's been so long since I've actually played, but, from the dude at the game shop (the employee, who obviously has the motive of selling me stuff) was talking about how the Cephalyx, as a Merc contract can basically take ANY unit in the game (my guess is, if it's true, there are some certain exceptions, based on having a rule, or trait or some such), which would pretty much get rid of your issue of not being able to field stuff you don't like
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2014/12/01 06:49:02
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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They can't 
They can use small and medium based mercenary units as slaves and veeery few Cryx solos.
But if you like the aesthetics of dark eldar than cephalix would be your best option in Warmachine.
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2014/12/01 06:50:58
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader
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I have looked at cephalyx but I'm a power gamer who prefers tournaments and from what I've seen, they aren't that great in that setting. Convergence is a newer faction so they don't have nearly as many options as the other, more esestablished factions. This hurts their power level.
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2014/12/01 07:15:46
Subject: Re:Warmachine and WH 40K
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
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 zlayer77 wrote:After testing other systems, and giving them a fair chans, you can't really go back to 40k...
I disagree with this, as I have done so multiple times. Both games play very differently, and both games have their own type of strategy. WH40k generally doesn´t fit people who have a need to play "whatever they want and expect it to work" - as this just doesn´t happen in 40k. Some, like me, have no issues whatsoever. I don´t get frustrated about the rules, they´re the same for everyone. Whenever I play a game my basic line of thought is "Huh, this is a game. Huh, these are the rules. Let´s play."
I don´t have a need for a game to be "what I want" - it´s a creation and a product. I don´t go into a store expecting a toothbrush to be shaped exactly like I want it. I don´t get frustrated about some units being bad, I simply accept it and I find it fun to field effective units and playing competitively.
Basically, I think for any beginner who´s getting into 40k you should just say: "You can field anything you like and make an army based on the rule of cool/fluff" or "You can consitently keep up competitive level of play" - you can´t have both. If one just accepts this they can have a great time, if not they´ll probably quit or get frustrated. It also appears some people don´t have the eye for 40k list building - I have a mate who constantly struggles with this even when he is using top tier units. So it´s not for everyone.
But like I said, both games have their own flavour, their own strategies, and in both games a good player will crush the less skilled one. I find both of them equally fun in tournaments and in casual games. 40k takes the cake with visuals and the universe and the miniatures for me, Warmachine is more balanced and offers more options in list building without half of your armys units being useless. There are quite a lot of really bad units in WM/H too though.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/12/01 07:22:45
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2014/12/01 07:40:59
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Cephalix close a gap in the mercenary army: anti hordes.
Mercenary v are a very good army. The two colossal a are bonkers and they alone will win you many games
The Earthbreaker pushes all the dwarf caster from mediocre to top 20 in the whole game. They just remove stuff so easily it's almost comedy... for you, not for your opponent
Cephalix are not a faction but just a part of the faction mercenaries. If you want to power game, go for mercs and not just cephalix.
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2014/12/01 10:10:21
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Painting Within the Lines
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I invested a fair wad of cash into WM and Cryx. I have to say, my interest has waned massively, mainly down the competitive aspect. I want a game to enjoy, to not care if I win or lose as long as I enjoy it. WM does not support this, it's not designed like that.
In 40k, I can at least avoid the competitive gamers with trip-tide, C'tan etc and enjoy it for a game.
And Malifaux beats the both of them anyway...
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2014/12/01 10:28:47
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
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WM is often a one trick pony.
If it works, the enemy is usually toast.
40k offers a bit than a powerful feat placed at the right moment.
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Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
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2014/12/01 11:00:28
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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If you go for all ins in WM, it's your choice. You can quite easily play the game for the long run. Kill a few modles here, deny the enemy zones and be prepared for the next 3 turns.
No one forces you into a turn 2 assasination attempt.
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2014/12/01 11:10:42
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Dakka Veteran
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RoninXiC wrote:If you go for all ins in WM, it's your choice. You can quite easily play the game for the long run. Kill a few modles here, deny the enemy zones and be prepared for the next 3 turns.
No one forces you into a turn 2 assasination attempt.
No one forces you to want to win either.
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2014/12/01 11:49:47
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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O_o
what?
Turn 2 Assasination is what new players usually go for. "Oh, there is a chance! Go for it! Oh I failed... WM sucks"
Advanced player will lay down their odds and in many cases only go for the 90%+ assasinations OR go for an advantage in later rounds.
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2014/12/01 11:53:04
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
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 wuestenfux wrote:WM is often a one trick pony.
If it works, the enemy is usually toast.
40k offers a bit than a powerful feat placed at the right moment.
Honestly, either you guys have no idea about what you are talking about or you must live in some weird alternate reality (my bet is on the first)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1RjOHgAtuE&list=UULj9pso-Tmp6PPPX6GL_9bA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0KIb8uHTaM&list=UULj9pso-Tmp6PPPX6GL_9bA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEnbfC1kFH4&list=UULj9pso-Tmp6PPPX6GL_9bA
And 40k doesn't offer anything other than dice rolling for 3 hours, that game has the tactical depth of Yahtzee... 
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2014/12/01 13:29:22
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Dakka Veteran
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Sure, assassination is the most common victory condition, but an overextended assassination run usually means defeat for the attacker. The tactical depth is certainly a major advantage to WM. If I have to think like I'm playing chess I'm usually having a good time.
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\m/ |
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2014/12/01 13:43:03
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Cosmic Joe
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Toofast wrote:I have looked at cephalyx but I'm a power gamer who prefers tournaments and from what I've seen, they aren't that great in that setting. Convergence is a newer faction so they don't have nearly as many options as the other, more established factions. This hurts their power level.
Demonstrably not true. In their latest Grand Tournament PP held, Convergence came in second. They're a very competitive force. They don't have a lot of stuff, but what they do have is very changeable depending on caster. More than any other faction the choice of caster affects how the entire army plays.
And they have her, my favorite model from any range.
Creepy, Lovecraftian machine worshiping cultists? Yes please.
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Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. |
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2014/12/01 13:48:35
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
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My experience is certainly not based on YouTube videos.
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Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
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2014/12/01 14:16:35
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Dakka Veteran
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Lol 3 perfectly good videos that demonstrate the pile in the middle syndrome of WM.
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2014/12/01 14:16:58
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Cosmic Joe
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My guess is that these people's experience from WMH comes from a few games where they just ran at each other, someone who knew what they were doing slaughtered them and they got frustrated.
I've been playing for about six months now and I'm just now "getting it." The feats are useful but not an end game by any means. There's far more tactical depth than 40k that it's not even funny. My last game had an objective in the center and the strategies my Cryx opponent used against me took me off my guard and almost won it for him. It wasn't just pile in, it was across the board to keep me moving forward and the way he did it was brilliant. (Sacrificed his whole army to do it though.) Before that we had a river on the board and our jacks were trying to toss each other into the water.
My local meta is mostly noobs and just learning the game they often just do straight battles. But scenarios are slowly creeping in and changing how you play and adding more depth.
Even at its most basic, WMH is more strategic than the largest game of 40k.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/01 14:18:31
Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. |
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2014/12/01 14:22:24
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
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Neither is it based on actual games if you consider the WMW Invitational and Iron Gauntlet finals as "YouTube videos". But, hey, keep talking about things you don't understand anything about. Automatically Appended Next Post: xxvaderxx wrote:
Lol 3 perfectly good videos that demonstrate the pile in the middle syndrome of WM.
And here is another prime example...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/01 14:23:06
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2014/12/01 14:23:59
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Dakka Veteran
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 MWHistorian wrote:
My guess is that these people's experience from WMH comes from a few games where they just ran at each other, someone who knew what they were doing slaughtered them and they got frustrated.
I've been playing for about six months now and I'm just now "getting it." The feats are useful but not an end game by any means. There's far more tactical depth than 40k that it's not even funny. My last game had an objective in the center and the strategies my Cryx opponent used against me took me off my guard and almost won it for him. It wasn't just pile in, it was across the board to keep me moving forward and the way he did it was brilliant. (Sacrificed his whole army to do it though.) Before that we had a river on the board and our jacks were trying to toss each other into the water.
My local meta is mostly noobs and just learning the game they often just do straight battles. But scenarios are slowly creeping in and changing how you play and adding more depth.
Even at its most basic, WMH is more strategic than the largest game of 40k.
lol get over your self, some people just are not interested in playing magic the gathering with miniatures.
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2014/12/01 14:42:33
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Executing Exarch
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Yeah, no. I dare you to pose that argument to a high level 40K tournament player. If that were true, any random dude with a netlist could win a 40K tournament. Which is not what happens. There is depth there, strategy and tactics, but it may not be to your liking. Note, I did not say it was balanced.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/01 14:45:28
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2014/12/01 14:49:27
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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Of course there is; Depth of stock, Sales Strategy, Sales Tactics.
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2014/12/01 15:02:41
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Posts with Authority
I'm from the future. The future of space
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xxvaderxx wrote:lol get over your self, some people just are not interested in playing magic the gathering with miniatures.
I wish Warmachine was MTG with miniatures. The sheer professional level of game design that goes into Magic The Gathering is staggering. WM/H is amateur hour compared to it. With MTG they managed to make a game that caters both to completely casual players and professionals who play for money as well as having to manage several formats including both constructed and limited varieties. WM/H pretty much just has one mode of play where it truly shines (the SR format works) while 40k has no modes of play where it shines (as you pretty much have to not care about the game and just enjoy it as a joke in order for it to work).
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Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. |
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2014/12/01 15:05:46
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
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Mymearan wrote:
Yeah, no. I dare you to pose that argument to a high level 40K tournament player. If that were true, any random dude with a netlist could win a 40K tournament. Which is not what happens. There is depth there, strategy and tactics, but it may not be to your liking. Note, I did not say it was balanced.
The only tactical choice that 40k gives to its players is target selection, everything else is random. Moving through difficult terrain is random, running is random, charging is random, psychic powers are random, traits are random, objectives are random even the freaking victory points that each objective gives are random! Random is the exact opposite of tactical play.
Also high level 40k tournament player is a contradiction in terms!
All the high level 40k tournament players that I knew about dropped the game when 6th edition was released.
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2014/12/01 15:11:34
Subject: Warmachine and WH 40K
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Cosmic Joe
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xxvaderxx wrote: MWHistorian wrote:
My guess is that these people's experience from WMH comes from a few games where they just ran at each other, someone who knew what they were doing slaughtered them and they got frustrated.
I've been playing for about six months now and I'm just now "getting it." The feats are useful but not an end game by any means. There's far more tactical depth than 40k that it's not even funny. My last game had an objective in the center and the strategies my Cryx opponent used against me took me off my guard and almost won it for him. It wasn't just pile in, it was across the board to keep me moving forward and the way he did it was brilliant. (Sacrificed his whole army to do it though.) Before that we had a river on the board and our jacks were trying to toss each other into the water.
My local meta is mostly noobs and just learning the game they often just do straight battles. But scenarios are slowly creeping in and changing how you play and adding more depth.
Even at its most basic, WMH is more strategic than the largest game of 40k.
lol get over your self, some people just are not interested in playing magic the gathering with miniatures.
You're demonstrating my point, that you and others don't really know or understand the game.
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Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. |
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