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 scuzz_bucket wrote:

Sim-Life wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:
No no everyone, he's right. It's a blatant IP breach. I mean, where else would GW get the idea of a ridden carriage pulled by unusual steeds? It's not like PP ripped off Santa Clause and his sleigh pulled by reindeer.. oh wait...

Who owns the Santa Clause IP?
Also, the amount of hostility in this thread is crazy.

There is no Santa IP, they I was referring to his accusation on GW breaching PP. If any ripoff took place, PP ripped off the non-trademarked image of Santa. The application of common sense would have made all that clear without me having to explain it.

Not quite true. Father Christmas (a company) owns a trade mark for Santa Claus.
Turns out there is a Santa clause.

And no, there is next to no similarity.

You guys do realise people were using sleds pulled by dogs and such before Santa Claus?

My friends and I decided on Fangta Clauws. Get a nice big sack for the presents, some of those novelty antlers that people put on their dogs for the wolves, paint it mostly red and white.

I really dislike the new Logan model, he looks out of proportion or something. Also his axe handle looks bent, like the guy who painted it bent it.

And I'm tired of people going on 'Space Wolves prefer to fight with their feet on the ground'. They fight on their feet, but getting there is fair game.

The whole "fight with their feet on the ground" thing was more of a reference to the fact that they just prefer it, and that Russ himself said he hated teleporting (really though, none of the Primarchs were particularly fond of it). It's no more a battle dogma than preferring cold environments to warm.

That said, Logan Claus is something I never could have predicted, never wanted, and won't willingly play with. Not just for the aesthetic reasons, but simply because wolves are battle companions.....not mounts. If you want to play it, all power to you. My wolf lord will be landing at ground zero in his personal Stormfang.

seems like people think GW or PP invented chariots and sleds...
obviously they ripped off each others IP and the first MMO ever was WoW...

FWIW the GW version is infinitely dumber.

The the dark future of grimdark space where mankind has no chance, emerges space vikigs in super space armor pulled in sleds by wolves, because that is where technology has gone.

Sim-Life wrote:

 scuzz_bucket wrote:
No no everyone, he's right. It's a blatant IP breach. I mean, where else would GW get the idea of a ridden carriage pulled by unusual steeds? It's not like PP ripped off Santa Clause and his sleigh pulled by reindeer.. oh wait...

Who owns the Santa Clause IP?
Also, the amount of hostility in this thread is crazy.

Coca-Cola

this reminds me of when knights released and warahoards players where accusing GW of ripping their game off with that one too. (because warmachine invented big stompy robots apparently?) do marmachine/hoards players sit around claiming anything PP has done is unique and theirs without actually looking at well... other historical examples?

OP's trying a bit too hard to start something

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
OP's trying a bit too hard to start something

He succeeded

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
OP's trying a bit too hard to start something

It's threads like these that prove Dakka isn't a hate echo chamber

I think the OP's idea is not a one for one, but the fact that "Hey, they did this, we should too!"

The idea of bigger models and now "epic" versions of named dudes (re-branded Lords of War!) seems lifted from their nearest competitor. Yes, GW may have done it moons ago, but that's not what the market will perceive as not everyone is a 20 year grognard. And perception is reality when it comes to these things. It's better to innovate than to placate or give the hint of copy-paste.

It's not like GW hasn't founded most of their fiction and what not on lifted material, so it shouldn't be that big of a surprise either way.

 TheKbob wrote:
I think the OP's idea is not a one for one, but the fact that "Hey, they did this, we should too!"

The idea of bigger models and now "epic" versions of named dudes (re-branded Lords of War!) seems lifted from their nearest competitor. Yes, GW may have done it moons ago, but that's not what the market will perceive as not everyone is a 20 year grognard. And perception is reality when it comes to these things. It's better to innovate than to placate or give the hint of copy-paste.

It's not like GW hasn't founded most of their fiction and what not on lifted material, so it shouldn't be that big of a surprise either way.

Things tend to develop from other things or in parallel with other things. There's not much you can do about public perception.

Given 40k had Epic which they source a lot of their big stuff and Forge World has been making big models which predate PP's existence makes it hard to say GW is copying "big things". If I recall correctly, FW were selling Thunderhawks in the mid 90's and before that armourcast models go back to the 80's.

Public perception is public perception, what the public THINK came first and what did actually come first is frequently out of alignment. The only way to change it is make your thing more popular so more people think what you did came first whether or not it actually did.

Ripped off? No.
Stupid looking? Yes.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I think the OP's idea is not a one for one, but the fact that "Hey, they did this, we should too!"

The idea of bigger models and now "epic" versions of named dudes (re-branded Lords of War!) seems lifted from their nearest competitor. Yes, GW may have done it moons ago, but that's not what the market will perceive as not everyone is a 20 year grognard. And perception is reality when it comes to these things. It's better to innovate than to placate or give the hint of copy-paste.

It's not like GW hasn't founded most of their fiction and what not on lifted material, so it shouldn't be that big of a surprise either way.

Things tend to develop from other things or in parallel with other things. There's not much you can do about public perception.

Given 40k had Epic which they source a lot of their big stuff and Forge World has been making big models which predate PP's existence makes it hard to say GW is copying "big things". If I recall correctly, FW were selling Thunderhawks in the mid 90's and before that armourcast models go back to the 80's.

Public perception is public perception, what the public THINK came first and what did actually come first is frequently out of alignment. The only way to change it is make your thing more popular so more people think what you did came first whether or not it actually did.

Fiction doesn't matter since GWs is almost entirely lifted. PP brought affordable large kits to the table. GW followed. Forgeworld realizes they screwed the pooch with big models that cost way too much and have run full steam to 30k. I wouldn't call $600 titans used in " sometimes " games the same as the release of Colossals and Gargants.

Plus, the PP stuff is metal and resin, at least some reason for the high price tag. GW is plastic. And crap compared to a Gundam kit at up to 60% off vs Imperial Knights and yet larger and more possible.

GW is just leveraging brand loyalty as they don't innovate nor make the best product. They just make "the best product for 40k."

 TheKbob wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I think the OP's idea is not a one for one, but the fact that "Hey, they did this, we should too!"

The idea of bigger models and now "epic" versions of named dudes (re-branded Lords of War!) seems lifted from their nearest competitor. Yes, GW may have done it moons ago, but that's not what the market will perceive as not everyone is a 20 year grognard. And perception is reality when it comes to these things. It's better to innovate than to placate or give the hint of copy-paste.

It's not like GW hasn't founded most of their fiction and what not on lifted material, so it shouldn't be that big of a surprise either way.

Things tend to develop from other things or in parallel with other things. There's not much you can do about public perception.

Given 40k had Epic which they source a lot of their big stuff and Forge World has been making big models which predate PP's existence makes it hard to say GW is copying "big things". If I recall correctly, FW were selling Thunderhawks in the mid 90's and before that armourcast models go back to the 80's.

Public perception is public perception, what the public THINK came first and what did actually come first is frequently out of alignment. The only way to change it is make your thing more popular so more people think what you did came first whether or not it actually did.

Fiction doesn't matter since GWs is almost entirely lifted. PP brought affordable large kits to the table. GW followed. Forgeworld realizes they screwed the pooch with big models that cost way too much and have run full steam to 30k. I wouldn't call $600 titans used in " sometimes " games the same as the release of Colossals and Gargants.

Plus, the PP stuff is metal and resin, at least some reason for the high price tag. GW is plastic. And crap compared to a Gundam kit at up to 60% off vs Imperial Knights and yet larger and more possible.

GW is just leveraging brand loyalty as they don't innovate nor make the best product. They just make "the best product for 40k."

You can actually get in games with PP's collasals.
As for the Gundam kits, in Japan I bought this guy for less than half the price of an Imperial Knight. The posability is off the charts and it comes with a lot of options.

And its taller.

 TheKbob wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
I think the OP's idea is not a one for one, but the fact that "Hey, they did this, we should too!"

The idea of bigger models and now "epic" versions of named dudes (re-branded Lords of War!) seems lifted from their nearest competitor. Yes, GW may have done it moons ago, but that's not what the market will perceive as not everyone is a 20 year grognard. And perception is reality when it comes to these things. It's better to innovate than to placate or give the hint of copy-paste.

It's not like GW hasn't founded most of their fiction and what not on lifted material, so it shouldn't be that big of a surprise either way.

Things tend to develop from other things or in parallel with other things. There's not much you can do about public perception.

Given 40k had Epic which they source a lot of their big stuff and Forge World has been making big models which predate PP's existence makes it hard to say GW is copying "big things". If I recall correctly, FW were selling Thunderhawks in the mid 90's and before that armourcast models go back to the 80's.

Public perception is public perception, what the public THINK came first and what did actually come first is frequently out of alignment. The only way to change it is make your thing more popular so more people think what you did came first whether or not it actually did.

Fiction doesn't matter since GWs is almost entirely lifted. PP brought affordable large kits to the table. GW followed. Forgeworld realizes they screwed the pooch with big models that cost way too much and have run full steam to 30k. I wouldn't call $600 titans used in " sometimes " games the same as the release of Colossals and Gargants.

I still don't really think you can say GW have been following PP with big affordable things. A lot of 40k tanks are sizable, Land Raiders, Eldar Grav tanks, DE Raiders and so on. 40k has always embraced vehicles which are naturally larger models. WHFB has had a range of large metal monsters since before I started collecting.

I remember almost 20 years ago my friend talking about WHFB saying that all armies needed their big scary thing and it was GW's formula to give each army a big scary thing.

Plus, the PP stuff is metal and resin, at least some reason for the high price tag. GW is plastic. And crap compared to a Gundam kit at up to 60% off vs Imperial Knights and yet larger and more possible.

GW is just leveraging brand loyalty as they don't innovate nor make the best product. They just make "the best product for 40k."

That's a different line of discussion than the originality thing and one company following another.

 TheKbob wrote:


Fiction doesn't matter since GWs is almost entirely lifted. PP brought affordable large kits to the table. GW followed. Forgeworld realizes they screwed the pooch with big models that cost way too much and have run full steam to 30k. I wouldn't call $600 titans used in " sometimes " games the same as the release of Colossals and Gargants.

Plus, the PP stuff is metal and resin, at least some reason for the high price tag. GW is plastic. And crap compared to a Gundam kit at up to 60% off vs Imperial Knights and yet larger and more possible.

GW is just leveraging brand loyalty as they don't innovate nor make the best product. They just make "the best product for 40k."

Didn't the plastic Ork Stompa and Baneblade kits come out well before the Colossals? Plastic Ork Stompa was released around 2009 I believe, and the plastic Baneblade was before that. I think Colossals came out in 2012.....

 ClassicCarraway wrote:


Didn't the plastic Ork Stompa and Baneblade kits come out well before the Colossals? Plastic Ork Stompa was released around 2009 I believe, and the plastic Baneblade was before that. I think Colossals came out in 2012.....

Yes, but they were not played much. It was just Apocalypse games they were used in. Some were sold, some were played but not very much. Now Colossals is out and people are buying big kits and playing with big kits. So GW released the same books with Stronghold Assault and Escalation (I think those were the names.) Problem is, a lot and I mean a lot of 40K players or at least the 40K Internet was against this. So what does GW, make it legal, end of story, so nobody could say "it's not legal, you can't play it." and that is when a lot of people started to use the games.

Before this, most people didn't play with big large kits. It was an exception. Now it seems to be normal. Hence why, GW copied what PP did and make them into standard games.

Davor wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:


Didn't the plastic Ork Stompa and Baneblade kits come out well before the Colossals? Plastic Ork Stompa was released around 2009 I believe, and the plastic Baneblade was before that. I think Colossals came out in 2012.....

Yes, but they were not played much. It was just Apocalypse games they were used in. Some were sold, some were played but not very much. Now Colossals is out and people are buying big kits and playing with big kits. So GW released the same books with Stronghold Assault and Escalation (I think those were the names.) Problem is, a lot and I mean a lot of 40K players or at least the 40K Internet was against this. So what does GW, make it legal, end of story, so nobody could say "it's not legal, you can't play it." and that is when a lot of people started to use the games.

Before this, most people didn't play with big large kits. It was an exception. Now it seems to be normal. Hence why, GW copied what PP did and make them into standard games.

That's a bit of a stretch if you ask me....

The comment wasn't "40K is copying PP by releasing big models", it was GW is copying, when clearly they are not. People also tend to forget about WHFB which has always had big models such as Giants and Dragons of all sorts for a really long time. Apocalypse is still 40K and is still a GW product.

I think GW has forgotten WHFB?