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My primary question is, can flyers and FMC while swooping, not be hit by blast weapons, or can they only not be targeted by them?
For example, if a blast weapon drifted and hit a flyer, would it just not affect it, or would it hit?

By extension, does this apply to affects that use the blast and large blast marker, but aren't actually shooting attacks? The main example I can think of would be a variety of results on the Winds of Chaos table, in the chaos daemons codex, which state that you place a large blast marker over any unit affected, and the unit takes a set kind of hit equal to the number of models under it.

In 40k, is there even a distinction between blast/large blast weapons, and effects that just use the templates to determine how many things are affected? And, if so, would there be a difference in respect to flyers and FMC? If not, then a few of the results on the Chaos Daemons table could be ignored by a demon flying-circus, which just seems like an unneeded boon.

Zooming Flyers cannot be affected at all.

Swooping FMCs (currently) can only be affected if the weapon has the Skyfire special rule.

The rules for targetting and damaging flyers and FMCs
are different.

Flyers Hard to Hit specifically exclude the possibility of Template and Blast weapons hitting Zooming Flyers (p84).

FMC Hard to Hit says to resolve any shots against Swooping FMCs as Snap Shots, which obviously precludes Template and Blast weapons from firing at them.

As far as I can tell, if a Blast targets another model and Scatters onto the Swooping FMC we have to follow the Blast rules and resolve the hit as normal; if the same thing happened to a Flyer, the shot cannot affect it.

My reading of the Hard to Hit for FMCs just says that models with Skyfire may resolve shots normally; I don't think it means you have to have Skyfire for shot to hit the target.

they seem to have left i line out of the FMC Hard to Hit. You cant target them, but if a blast scatters onto a Swooping FMC, it will hit (sadface from a Daemon Prince lover)

Yes, but what about effects that don't target? Things that just use a blast marker to determine what all is effected?

For example, one of the CSM apocalypses formations lets you use that one psyker power that tosses out a roaming D-blast. But, so far as I can tell, it works on anything the blast touches.

There are no rules for FMC that prevent them being hit by a Blast (unlike Flyers) - you just can't target the FMC. So, Vortex type weapons can quite happily affect FMCs.

This rule is stupid. I was playing a game just yesterday and this came up.

A Typhon Heavy siege tank targeted a Dimachaeron and "coincidentally" (on purpose) clipped the base of a Hive Crone.


Fortunately for me, he rolled a 1 to wound but regardless, these rules should not have changed from 6ed and it super bums me out that it has.

I wish they'd released a document with the new rulebook with an A4 page which said "Oh and by the way, the bits we've changed are..."

saves people from missing subtle new rules...

 Wilson wrote:
This rule is stupid. I was playing a game just yesterday and this came up.

A Typhon Heavy siege tank targeted a Dimachaeron and "coincidentally" (on purpose) clipped the base of a Hive Crone.


Fortunately for me, he rolled a 1 to wound but regardless, these rules should not have changed from 6ed and it super bums me out that it has.

I wish they'd released a document with the new rulebook with an A4 page which said "Oh and by the way, the bits we've changed are..."

saves people from missing subtle new rules...

Call me jaded if you like, but I'm all for loop holes that let me blow things out of the sky in sneaky ways.

But I'm biased and I admit it. I hate flyers (of all types) with a burning passion, and I'm not very fond of super-heavies either. =/

So, another question, what if the weapon being used has skyfire? Can a skyfired template weapon hit a zooming flyer?

heracyangel wrote:
So, another question, what if the weapon being used has skyfire? Can a skyfired template weapon hit a zooming flyer?

No because of the Hard to Hit rule.

morganfreeman wrote:

 Wilson wrote:
This rule is stupid. I was playing a game just yesterday and this came up.

A Typhon Heavy siege tank targeted a Dimachaeron and "coincidentally" (on purpose) clipped the base of a Hive Crone.


Fortunately for me, he rolled a 1 to wound but regardless, these rules should not have changed from 6ed and it super bums me out that it has.

I wish they'd released a document with the new rulebook with an A4 page which said "Oh and by the way, the bits we've changed are..."

saves people from missing subtle new rules...

Call me jaded if you like, but I'm all for loop holes that let me blow things out of the sky in sneaky ways.

But I'm biased and I admit it. I hate flyers (of all types) with a burning passion, and I'm not very fond of super-heavies either. =/

I appreciate your honesty brother! haha!

CrownAxe wrote:

heracyangel wrote:
So, another question, what if the weapon being used has skyfire? Can a skyfired template weapon hit a zooming flyer?

No because of the Hard to Hit rule.

Unless it has Skyfire...

"Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as snap shots unless a model or weapon has the sky fire special rule"...

stupid. stupid stupid. I didn't even realise that. stupid godamn rule.




Stupid.

 Wilson wrote:


Unless it has Skyfire...

"Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as snap shots unless a model or weapon has the sky fire special rule"...

stupid. stupid stupid. I didn't even realise that. stupid godamn rule.




Stupid.

Or you could finish reading the Hard to Hit rule

"...Template and Blast weapons, and any other attacks that don’t roll To Hit, cannot hit Zooming Flyers."

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Wilson wrote:


Unless it has Skyfire...

"Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as snap shots unless a model or weapon has the sky fire special rule"...

stupid. stupid stupid. I didn't even realise that. stupid godamn rule.




Stupid.

Or you could finish reading the Hard to Hit rule

"...Template and Blast weapons, and any other attacks that don’t roll To Hit, cannot hit Zooming Flyers."

...Or you could ask which rule I am quoting - which happens to be the FMC Hard to hit rule which is different...

 Wilson wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Wilson wrote:


Unless it has Skyfire...

"Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as snap shots unless a model or weapon has the sky fire special rule"...

stupid. stupid stupid. I didn't even realise that. stupid godamn rule.




Stupid.

Or you could finish reading the Hard to Hit rule

"...Template and Blast weapons, and any other attacks that don’t roll To Hit, cannot hit Zooming Flyers."

...Or you could ask which rule I am quoting - which happens to be the FMC Hard to hit rule which is different...

Why would you talk about FMCs when the person I was responding to was talking about zooming flyers?

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Wilson wrote:


Unless it has Skyfire...

"Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as snap shots unless a model or weapon has the sky fire special rule"...

stupid. stupid stupid. I didn't even realise that. stupid godamn rule.




Stupid.

Or you could finish reading the Hard to Hit rule

"...Template and Blast weapons, and any other attacks that don’t roll To Hit, cannot hit Zooming Flyers."

...Or you could ask which rule I am quoting - which happens to be the FMC Hard to hit rule which is different...

Why would you talk about FMCs when the person I was responding to was talking about zooming flyers?

Because I didn't read that far up...

Interesting I never realized the wording between flyers and FMC was different. Wonder if this was an overlook .

I don't think it was an oversite. They fly low to the ground, this represented by the lack of a flying stand, and can hide well I think it's a compromise. They also aren't supersonic like the flyers are so there's that as well.

Lungpickle wrote:
I don't think it was an oversite. They fly low to the ground, this represented by the lack of a flying stand, and can hide well I think it's a compromise. They also aren't supersonic like the flyers are so there's that as well.

Some of them have flying stands.

It's a stupid change.

The problem with GW.... is they suck at rules writing. We can't tell if it was a 'change' or an 'oversite'. And they will never let us know...

Lungpickle wrote:
I don't think it was an oversite. They fly low to the ground, this represented by the lack of a flying stand, and can hide well I think it's a compromise. They also aren't supersonic like the flyers are so there's that as well.

As Rigeld points out: A failed Grounding test on a Harpy does not allow you to remove it from it's flight stand...