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I posted this in the Painting and Modeling section, but i realized that that was the wrong section to post it in

Looking at the Forgeworld Imperial Knight Lancer. Great Rules, bad price. Extra attack, 3d6 run, 5+ invuln in CC, and +1 init on the charge are appealing. $286 + shipping is not.

Found an alternative to the Imperial knight lancer but was wondering if anyone wanted to comment on this before i drop ~$100 (still about a third the price of the FW Lancer)
The alternative is the 28mm Leviathan Crusader.
They look similar, have similar height from what i can tell

Here are the model comparisons:

First the knight lancer against the imperial knight:


Then the Leviathan Crusader versus the Imperial knight:


It looks like they are within a quarter of an inch for height, and both have about the same body proportions.
Might do some conversions on the head/weapons but would this be a good proxy?

The Leviathan Crusader is an excellent model. I've built a scenic base for mine so that it stands as tall as a Warhound, but a Knight Lancer seems like an even better fit. There's a claw-hand arm for it that would be ideal for attaching a scratch-built shield, and the sword arm should be a good fit for the lance.

The Knight Lancer really makes a huge invalidation of the whole "Dreamforge Leviathan is way too big to be a Knight, stop trying to be a cheapskate" arguments that used to constantly be here on Dakka.

I would absolutely make the conversion. Especially because if a Lancer is already established that big, why isn't a "standard" knight that size? So use the swappable nature of the Dreamforge arms to be able to field both kinds of Knight in friendly games.

Except a Knight Lancer is described as being a Fast Moving version of the Knight no ? The FW version is long and lanky looking - it looks like it could put on a huge turn of speed when required . The Leviathan as awesome as it is does not make me think of speed . It is the right height for sure but it looks way to ponderous for a fast moving first strike Knight ( in my opinion ) .

Wait wait, there is more......


The new Cerastus Knight Castigator that was displayed a couple weeks ago is pretty much the same model as the Leviathan Crusader 28mm

Here is the new knight castigator:


The sword, stance, and gatling gun look oddly familiar. Hmm....


Yeah. I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy this guy because he can proxy both the Lancer and the Castigator almost perfectly

Eh, proxy away, I don't really see any issues with it since the size and scale are very similar. I myself am using an Ultraforge War Demon as a FW Bloodthirster (Angg'ranth I believe is the name). The scale for both models is largely the same, just the Ultraforge model is crouching, so I'm making a raised base to help alleviate the height difference.

Wait....a Castigator is GW 'copying' a company who 'copied' GW's ideas of Knights? Is a double copy like a double negative?

I've always thought the Leviathan models are more the size and thickness of a warhound. Would just load them up with two gun arms and use them for that.

It used to be argued that way until FW made a Knight chassis the height of a Warhound.........

Every time I see a Leviathan it is always played as a Warhound.

Everytime I see the Dreamforge Leviathan, I can't see what everyone else is seeing.

It looks like a big, goofy childs toy in comparison to the Imperial Knight.

Jeez. Wow. It's silly how much bigger it is than an Imperial Knight. In a bad way.

This is seriously the coolest looking of all the Imperial Knights.

It looks like they took the armor palting off of the plastic knight kit and added it to the taller Cerastus frame.

Cerastus Knight Castigator


I see this the day after I broke down and bought a Cerastus Knight Lancer.

My wife may try and kill me, and my friends are going to cringe, when I field both of them

I really just wish the sword was being held in a fist, rather than built on like that. I HATE that look.

Crazyterran wrote:

It looks like a big, goofy childs toy in comparison...

Strange, I have much the same thought when I look at GW's Imperial Knight.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

It looks like a big, goofy childs toy in comparison...

Strange, I have much the same thought when I look at GW's Imperial Knight.

I don't agree with this in the least. The Imperial Knight has some practicality to it but there is just something off by the look of the Dreamforge Leviathan. It just kind of looks like a cheap knock off but that is my opinion so even with the increased price, I still would buy the Imperial Knights from GW or FW.

 Envihon wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

It looks like a big, goofy childs toy in comparison...

Strange, I have much the same thought when I look at GW's Imperial Knight.

I don't agree with this in the least. The Imperial Knight has some practicality to it but there is just something off by the look of the Dreamforge Leviathan. It just kind of looks like a cheap knock off but that is my opinion so even with the increased price, I still would buy the Imperial Knights from GW or FW.

Yeah,
I think it is the size and proportions of the weapons and head compared to its frame. The gatling gun it is holding basically shoots car-sized bullets and the head looks like it was crammed into it from another toy.

I'm feeling Khorne Lord of Skulls head and replace the weapon with comething else.


It also looks a lot better painted
Here:

Painting it certainly helped it look a tad better but I still don't completely like it. I do know a couple of people used the model to make what they think a DK should look like properly and I can kind of see that but otherwise, I just really enjoy GW and FW titans more.

The arms, legs, and upper torso are all heavily armored, but the center of the model is 2 pistons and a spine. It's clearly the weakest point on the titan. front and center, with no armor at all. That bothers me.

Secondly, by time you buy the extra arms, to get the right weapon combo, your not saving money.

To it's credit though, it is bigger and beefier looking, and the skull head variant is very grimdark

I've heard that if properly assembled and painted, the 15mm version can actually pick up a Dreadknight model and put it in the garbage for you.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I've heard that if properly assembled and painted, the 15mm version can actually pick up a Dreadknight model and put it in the garbage for you.

I'll give it to you. I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read that.

Anyone have a picture of that ?

Or maybe just a size comparison shot of the two models ?

I think this is the one I was remembering, from Google Images:

While I can understand people liking the look of the GW ones more the dreamforge ones are some of the best kits I have ever put together, it feels like you're building a dam robot. There is so much articulation and posability its amazing.

The FW ones I'm not sure about, but even my warhound wasn't a particularly impressive kit by comparison and looking at the GW ones they just seem like... Well toys.

I don't know which looks more vulnerable, the Leviathan's exposed torso that you could easily dispatch with a few well placed shots, or the Terminator baby harness...I mean at least the GK is in Terminator armor, what is the Leviathan's excuse?

Oh god that makes the dreadknight look like the utter piece of crap it is and that's without realizing you can actually pose the leviathon.

I have a Leviathan and would not agree with using it as a Warhound, as is commonly done. The size and shape are way too different, and the stock weapon options do not match any Warhound loadouts.

However, the FW Knight Lancers are a great match and assuming it was armed appropriately would have no problem with that proxy. Same for the smaller scale Leviathan as a Dreadknight.

I agree Ouze, I have a 28mm Levi and it makes much more sense as a knight, it's a little too short to pass as a warhound.

 adamsouza wrote:
Secondly, by time you buy the extra arms, to get the right weapon combo, your not saving money.

OK, this is flat out horsegak from the land of Made Up Nonsense, bro. The Leviathan is $100 or so, and the arms are $30 each (and you may only need one, defending how you want to outfit it). Assuming you need two, it's $160.

The Knight-Lancer is $285. The warhound is $428 USD without arms.

 Ouze wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Secondly, by time you buy the extra arms, to get the right weapon combo, your not saving money.

OK, this is flat out horsegak from the land of Made Up Nonsense, bro. The Leviathan is $100 or so, and the arms are $30 each (and you may only need one, defending how you want to outfit it). Assuming you need two, it's $160.

The Knight-Lancer is $285. The warhound is $428 USD without arms.

I think he was comparing it to the GW knight, that's about that price in USD isn't it?

Of course them there is the size and posability advantages it has as well..

 jonolikespie wrote:
While I can understand people liking the look of the GW ones more the dreamforge ones are some of the best kits I have ever put together, it feels like you're building a dam robot. There is so much articulation and posability its amazing.

The FW ones I'm not sure about, but even my warhound wasn't a particularly impressive kit by comparison and looking at the GW ones they just seem like... Well toys.

All of this basically. The leviathan is a much better kit on a technical level. it's plastic, highly poseable and has easy swap weapons. As the pics show it paints up really well. I understand why people prefer the looks of the GW/FW ones, but imo the leviathans are much more "realistic" in that they look like they can actually move, unlike the top heavy warhound for example. The large resin kits are much harder to assemble and suffer problems because of it. Fixing large warping issues and any other resin problems is not my idea of fun tbh so I was really happy that dreamforge produced a giant stompy robot in plastic.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Secondly, by time you buy the extra arms, to get the right weapon combo, your not saving money.

OK, this is flat out horsegak from the land of Made Up Nonsense, bro. The Leviathan is $100 or so, and the arms are $30 each (and you may only need one, defending how you want to outfit it). Assuming you need two, it's $160.

The Knight-Lancer is $285. The warhound is $428 USD without arms.

I think he was comparing it to the GW knight, that's about that price in USD isn't it?

If that so, the comparison makes even less sense since there is no shield arm for the Leviathan to buy.