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 TheKbob wrote:
Outside of the almost "so plain it's silly" name of Herald, him and Ulrik are probably the two HQs I'd take. Solid TWC lord and a good buff HQ. If you could still make a true Bearlord, I'd go for that and Urlik.

Yeah I agree, they're probably my top 2 characters for the HQs section. Still looking over everything though, but they're the ones who stood out for me.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
I'm not at all disappointed. We got cost drops on anything that needed it, the new units are very cool, the changes to GH are neither unexpected nor unwarranted, and to say they've been reduced to 'just' tactical marines is not true at all.

The codex seems to be balanced internally and externally, it fixes a lot of issues and doesn't change how the army plays. what more can you ask?

This. The list of things that disappoint me are very short. Njal got nerfed hard and Ragnar's not much better, Wolf Scouts got a WTF nerf and the lost wargear makes me sad. However, basically everything else about the book is amazing, including little things like getting rid of the worst aspects of the fluff on characters like Canis Wolfborn (haven't checked to see if this is a trend throughout though).

Oh and is it just me, or is there a MAJOR typo on the Wolf Priest, restricting Oath of War to just him? That needs to be FAQ'd immediately.

I have to agree. On my first glance through it seemed that everything that used to be popular on the tournament scene had been nerfed... but even then I was excited about some of the more obvious (to me) boosts.
Having spent a bit more time now looking through it, comparing points costs in depth etc.... the only real nerfs are the obvious ones that really needed it like grey hunters and long fangs. Even Rune Priests come out OK..... even though they lost the enormous dispell bubble, they're a lot cheaper now too and still pretty good

Then there's the other 86% of the codex, which is awesome!

Oh and I was also initially worried about the Wolf Priest wording... until I doubled checked the main rules description of "preferred enemy"

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
I love it, the second I glanced through it all kinds of ideas started sparking up in my mind.

Before, I never cared for the bikes, jump packs, Iron Priests and Blood Claws and now I want to field units of all of them.

This. SOOOOO this! The book has opened up a ton of options, and it makes me VERY happy as someone who was sick of how you were shoehorned into writing a SW list way back in 5th ed!

And this was what I noticed immediately!!! Unlike you... I started playing Space Wolves in the 90s with their wonderful 2nd ed codex.... so I've ALWAYS been a fan of fast attack style blood claws. As you might imagine... I'm super duper amazingly happy to see them buffed, cheaper and no longer shunned by the stupid 3rd ed fluff!

StarHunter25 wrote:Honestly, I want to see this codex in person. Even if they are just "Space Marines +1", which is what most are saying about them, that is huge. C:SM is a great codex with so many ways to use it that I am quite literally aggravated. I play CSM, specifically Khorne CSM. A standard CSM for me has the CCW and MoK. Guess what that is roughly equivalent rules wise (though lacking the lessened, though still amazing ATSKNF), but costs more than your "ultra nerf-hammered GH"? And complaining that your terminators cost 39 points apparently? That is -cheaper- than C:SM in case you forgot. The new murderdread of murder or whatever it's called basically took a giant dump on the Furioso. On top of that you apparently get a 3++ on a dread? Good grief, even if it is oooonly on the front arc, proper positioning just made that one of the worst things to face unless you have ungodly melta/las tier AT firepower. I'm no expert at mathhammer, but I'd wager it'd take a full squad of lascannon havocs/devastators 2-3 turns to finally kill that thing.

Now we get to the "stupid flying wolfbox". That thing is, quite honestly, the most blatant example of why Space Wolves are space marines +1. Its a Stormraven but better. Correct me if i'm wrong, but is it not one of the few non-superheavy weapons in the game that can handle horde infantry, MEQ, TEQ, MC, Light armor, and heavy armor all with the same ease? And you have the nerve to complain about it?? This thing is going to make the rage over the 6e Heldrake seem like a high school sit in. And it is apparently also has the same functionality as a LRC as far as being an assault transport, for less? Even without having read the dex yet, just with the general explanations I've read in this thread alone, I can't figure out how my current army (CSM) will be able to do a single thing to this. TWC were amazing before, and now with a point reduction I'd expect 8/10 list to at least have a 5 strong unit, just as board control units. GH still have the same role they had before: arguably the best MEQ objective holders in the game. It's a good thing their point cost got brought in line. Plus the shenanigans with taking a flamer at no cost, then saying "oh look, a plasma gun that would normally cost 15 points... I guess it's free because Fenris".

Sorry, all of your complaints fall on deaf ears from this direction. Yeah, you didn't get an army of 2++ 10 point terminators all with double grav cannons + TH/LC. GW made a mistake with Eldar, and they are silently admitting it. Even the much daunted Tau are a shade of their former glory with the loss of Taudar/Eldau. Are Tau a strong army still? No doubt. But now that having reliable objective holders, specifically objective secured holders, is even more important, Tau aren't all they used to be. And given how easy it is to kill their T3 infantry, and with the major changes to jink, the Devilfish took a substantial hit as well. This should all come across as harsh. Because it is. You got a great book. If the only complaint you can manage is "murrmrrr i have to pay for my CCW now waaaah" or "I get a TEQ chariot with 4 extra rending attacks but it looks odd so I'm butthurt"... just stop. Actually -use- the army before you get all whiney about a few obviously needed changes. At least your army didnt get stomped all over like my poor nids.

Now feel free to pick out each induvidual line of this to tell me how wrong I am and that now SW are the worst codex ever to be made. You still wont have a leg to stand on.

I'm not going to pick your post apart line by line.
I'm about 95% happy with the new codex
At first glance, almost anything looks a viable choice somehow... and that's all I ever wanted
I'm glad GH/LF spam took a nerf.... it's boring and I don't like being shoe-horned into that sort of cookie cutter math spam

Bulldogging wrote:Honestly if GW was any sort of competent gaming company, they would do frequent erratas to fix balance issues(for free).

That came off more bashing of GW than I meant. I enjoy 40k, but they could do a much better job with balance.

That's long been an issue... happily this codex seems to have pretty reasonable internal balance. Can't really say about external balance yet... but it's a start

Random Dude wrote:I like Tehjonny's sig. At first I wanted to play Space Wolves because of the Viking aspect, but now they're just silly.

Tehjonny's sig wrote:Back in the day, we were epic Space Vikings with horns, and beer, and stupid mockney accents, and we didn't have any truck with this flying around like a pansy shizzle. We certainly didn't surround ourselves with mangy animals.

I for one DON'T like Tehjonny's sig and I'm super happy that this sort of attitude has been completely $#*% on by this codex.
"Back in the Day" there was never any mention of this "both feet on the ground" nonsense.... that was some crap brought in with 3rd Ed... which any old school 40K player knows was "The Day 40K Died"... or "Worst Edition Ever"
"Back in the Day" ..... Russ had 2 pet wolves.... so I guess Spaces Wolves have always surrounded themselves with mangy animals.

Sky Claws are back, cheaper and better than ever with a dedicated Wolf Guard leader
Wolf Guard jump packs area cheaper than ever... only 3ppm !!!!
We have... not one, but two Space Wolf unique fliers
One of those fliers is a "Dedicated Transport" to just about every unit in the book (so no FOC issues)
Only marine army to have stand alone drop pods
Still have Land Speeders (which everyone seemed to ignore during the whole "both feet on the ground" era)
Terminators can now TELEPORT ?!?!
Chapter Master now rides a hover chariot!!!

So I guess the whole "both feet on the ground" malarkey has been well and truly told where it can stick itself (and about time!!)

easysauce wrote:I wanted to get into SW's before, but found the codex lacking and unfluffy as the best lists were all basically shooty spam missles lists.

the new dex is a huge improvement,

Exactly my feelings.
For too long, people on the internet have claimed

Space Wolves are NOT a melee army, they're a close range army

These same people are the ones who will sprout on with the "both feet on the ground" nonsense... but they don't dare use an axe?!

This codex heralds a return to the good old days of the Space Wolves.

tyrannosaurus wrote:As I said in N&R I love the Grimnar chariot. For me the whole 'GRIMDARK take it seriously' attitude is much more childish than a tongue in cheek approach to miniature design in what is a game of toy soldiers at the end of the day, and gets back to GWs roots. Best model since the Knight Titan imo.

Yeah I agree.... I'm sick of skulls and I'm sick of grimdark over-seriousness
I want to have FUN and use ridiculous things like giants in armour riding wolves and hover chariots.... and berzerkers with rocket packs on their back to hurl them into combat faster

womprat49 wrote:Fantastic Codex very pleased! Well worth the wait TONS of flexibility and variations now.

It's everything I asked for
Somewhere around here is a thread where I said something to effect of - I just want a codex where all the units are a valid choice, and no one tells me I'm stupid for using the models I find appealing instead of 5xGHwith [set loadout] + 4xLF with [set loadout]
"Internal Balance" I think we call it



maybe I'm the fabled "Beer and Pretzels" gamer?
You know what.... maybe I'm just crazy

I know I'm like a month-late to the party, but I just realized that the Murderfang dreadnought has his face exposed!?




I don't know, I mean I've seen this on a couple of CSM dreadnoughts, but I guess it seemed to make more sense because they were typically warped with demons and such and practicality goes out the door with Chaos. But seeing it on a loyalist dreadnought (particularly with this derpy face) is really bizarre.

 Accolade wrote:

Spoiler:

I know I'm like a month-late to the party, but I just realized that the Murderfang dreadnought has his face exposed!?




I don't know, I mean I've seen this on a couple of CSM dreadnoughts, but I guess it seemed to make more sense because they were typically warped with demons and such and practicality goes out the door with Chaos. But seeing it on a loyalist dreadnought (particularly with this derpy face) is really bizarre.

Yes we all saw it, that alone took up 5-10 pages of the thread.
I say if you don't like it [I don't] don't use it, I will either go with the scull helm or just cover it up.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

Spoiler:

I know I'm like a month-late to the party, but I just realized that the Murderfang dreadnought has his face exposed!?




I don't know, I mean I've seen this on a couple of CSM dreadnoughts, but I guess it seemed to make more sense because they were typically warped with demons and such and practicality goes out the door with Chaos. But seeing it on a loyalist dreadnought (particularly with this derpy face) is really bizarre.

Yes we all saw it, that alone took up 5-10 pages of the thread.
I say if you don't like it [I don't] don't use it, I will either go with the scull helm or just cover it up.

Fair enough, I think I got caught up in people making all of the "murder-on-murder-on-murder" jokes and hadn't bothered to click through all of the pictures on the GW website.

There's a difference between 40k's old 'tongue in cheek, cheesy grimdark' and 'just plain silly.' This SW dex has gone into silly territory. I used to like SW, they were my second favorite chapter. Now I'd feel ridiculous for fielding them. They're vikings, so they have ice weapons and sleighs pulled by wolves! No. Just no.

GW has gone full silly.

 MWHistorian wrote:
There's a difference between 40k's old 'tongue in cheek, cheesy grimdark' and 'just plain silly.' This SW dex has gone into silly territory. I used to like SW, they were my second favorite chapter. Now I'd feel ridiculous for fielding them. They're vikings, so they have ice weapons and sleighs pulled by wolves! No. Just no.

GW has gone full silly.

No more than Marvel has done with Thor and kin

 MWHistorian wrote:
There's a difference between 40k's old 'tongue in cheek, cheesy grimdark' and 'just plain silly.' This SW dex has gone into silly territory. I used to like SW, they were my second favorite chapter. Now I'd feel ridiculous for fielding them. They're vikings, so they have ice weapons and sleighs pulled by wolves! No. Just no.

GW has gone full silly.

This is how I've felt about SW's for a while.

I *want* to like them, but GW has driven off cliff with them. With the last codex and TWC's and absurd fluff about firing artillery by smell, this codex's absurd fliers and murderfacefang sillyness and Logan Claus, and their awful HH fluff, tGW's made them just...odious.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
There's a difference between 40k's old 'tongue in cheek, cheesy grimdark' and 'just plain silly.' This SW dex has gone into silly territory. I used to like SW, they were my second favorite chapter. Now I'd feel ridiculous for fielding them. They're vikings, so they have ice weapons and sleighs pulled by wolves! No. Just no.

GW has gone full silly.

This is how I've felt about SW's for a while.

I *want* to like them, but GW has driven off cliff with them. With the last codex and TWC's and absurd fluff about firing artillery by smell, this codex's absurd fliers and murderfacefang sillyness and Logan Claus, and their awful HH fluff, tGW's made them just...odious.

Do people have the same issues with the Bloodbloodblood marines?

pm713 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
There's a difference between 40k's old 'tongue in cheek, cheesy grimdark' and 'just plain silly.' This SW dex has gone into silly territory. I used to like SW, they were my second favorite chapter. Now I'd feel ridiculous for fielding them. They're vikings, so they have ice weapons and sleighs pulled by wolves! No. Just no.

GW has gone full silly.

This is how I've felt about SW's for a while.

I *want* to like them, but GW has driven off cliff with them. With the last codex and TWC's and absurd fluff about firing artillery by smell, this codex's absurd fliers and murdering sillyness and Logan Claus, and their awful HH fluff, tGW's made them just...odious.

Do people have the same issues with the Bloodbloodblood marines?

Not when complaining about Space Wolves

pm713 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
There's a difference between 40k's old 'tongue in cheek, cheesy grimdark' and 'just plain silly.' This SW dex has gone into silly territory. I used to like SW, they were my second favorite chapter. Now I'd feel ridiculous for fielding them. They're vikings, so they have ice weapons and sleighs pulled by wolves! No. Just no.

GW has gone full silly.

This is how I've felt about SW's for a while.

I *want* to like them, but GW has driven off cliff with them. With the last codex and TWC's and absurd fluff about firing artillery by smell, this codex's absurd fliers and murderfacefang sillyness and Logan Claus, and their awful HH fluff, tGW's made them just...odious.

Do people have the same issues with the Bloodbloodblood marines?

In some ways yes, though admittedly they're not quite as overboard as the SW's are (yet). That said, they're close (e.g. the forced renaming of Dreadnought close combat weapons to Blood Fists for no reason, Bloodstrike missiles, etc )

I was in the US cavalry and we didn't ride around the desert on horses with big cowboy hats, sabers and handlebar mustaches. I didn't use my Cowboy Cav Jeep with the Cowboy Indian Fighter Machine gun.
The viking theme was taken in a silly direction. Light hearted is good. Silly is not when the game isn't supposed to be silly.

pm713 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
There's a difference between 40k's old 'tongue in cheek, cheesy grimdark' and 'just plain silly.' This SW dex has gone into silly territory. I used to like SW, they were my second favorite chapter. Now I'd feel ridiculous for fielding them. They're vikings, so they have ice weapons and sleighs pulled by wolves! No. Just no.

GW has gone full silly.

This is how I've felt about SW's for a while.

I *want* to like them, but GW has driven off cliff with them. With the last codex and TWC's and absurd fluff about firing artillery by smell, this codex's absurd fliers and murderfacefang sillyness and Logan Claus, and their awful HH fluff, tGW's made them just...odious.

Do people have the same issues with the Bloodbloodblood marines?

I do, my chapter is about to get stupider if the Space Wolves can be used as a gauge.

I was bummed with the book, but as others have said, because the old builds are less powerful. There are SO many new builds to toy with and think about! With the rumors of the new formations, I am even considering a few models I would have never used!
Wolf claws, cheap equipment for wolf guard, TWC, flier, all sorts of cool stuff.
Lone wolf with wolf claw, storm shield and melta bombs, my new favorite sub 100pt unit!

 MWHistorian wrote:
I was in the US cavalry and we didn't ride around the desert on horses with big cowboy hats, sabers and handlebar mustaches. I didn't use my Cowboy Cav Jeep with the Cowboy Indian Fighter Machine gun.
The viking theme was taken in a silly direction. Light hearted is good. Silly is not when the game isn't supposed to be silly.

You were apparently not in the US Air Cav with their Blackhawks, Apaches, Kiowas, etc.

Cowboy hats are still a thing for them as well.

 pretre wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I was in the US cavalry and we didn't ride around the desert on horses with big cowboy hats, sabers and handlebar mustaches. I didn't use my Cowboy Cav Jeep with the Cowboy Indian Fighter Machine gun.
The viking theme was taken in a silly direction. Light hearted is good. Silly is not when the game isn't supposed to be silly.

You were apparently not in the US Air Cav with their Blackhawks, Apaches, Kiowas, etc.

Cowboy hats are still a thing for them as well.

Spoiler:

But we don't ware them into battle was my point. And having all the helicopters named after Indian nations is a theme. Themes are cool. Having helicopter pilots with feathered headresses and bows and arrows in battle would be silly. There's a line. GW crossed it.

No our Special Forces rode into battle wearing the head wrap, armed with M4s, Tomahawks and body armor during the opening stages of the Afghan war.

 Anpu42 wrote:
No our Special Forces rode into battle wearing the head wrap, armed with M4s, Tomahawks and body armor during the opening stages of the Afghan war.

M-4's and tomahawks are actually a really great, practical combination. I had a tanto during both my deployments. I didn't ware hakama and a back banner though.
This new SW dex comes off feeling too much like bad G-Gundam stuff.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
No our Special Forces rode into battle wearing the head wrap, armed with M4s, Tomahawks and body armor during the opening stages of the Afghan war.

M-4's and tomahawks are actually a really great, practical combination. I had a tanto during both my deployments. I didn't ware hakama and a back banner though.
This new SW dex comes off feeling too much like bad G-Gundam stuff.

That is because we got all of that Dreadnaught Stuff, We now do the Mecha Scene better than Tau

 Anpu42 wrote:
No our Special Forces rode into battle wearing the head wrap, armed with M4s, Tomahawks and body armor during the opening stages of the Afghan war.

Keep in mind this was also so that they didn't stick out like a sore thumb, to blend in with Afghan natives and not be gigantic immediate targets letting everyone know US special forces were there, in the earliest stages of a conflict by a very tiny number of US personnel amongst much larger Afghan forces, and they weren't executing cavalry charges with tomahawks, they were acting as mounted infantry.

Subsequent operations were not conducted thusly.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
No our Special Forces rode into battle wearing the head wrap, armed with M4s, Tomahawks and body armor during the opening stages of the Afghan war.

Keep in mind this was also so that they didn't stick out like a sore thumb, to blend in with Afghan natives and not be gigantic immediate targets letting everyone know US special forces were there, in the earliest stages of a conflict by a very tiny number of US personnel amongst much larger Afghan forces, and they weren't executing cavalry charges with tomahawks, they were acting as mounted infantry.

Subsequent operations were not conducted thusly.

From what I understand the ANA are still conducting Mounted Operations. It was mostly just a statement that there is nothing "Silly" about "Calvary Operations" in High Tech Battlefields.
We still have Fixed Bayonet Charges, well the Brits do, in 2003, Basra, Royal Scotts Guards.

The bayonet charge was a very isolated incident at extremely close quarters against significantly less well trained and equipped enemy forces, and we know about it exactly because such actions are so rare.

The ANA conducts mounted operations because it can't get fuel to half the country nor keep vehicles in order, and they're not riding the horses on to enemy positions as far as I'm aware, the horses are transport as opposed to battle mount. Afghanistan is also probably one of, it not the, most primal places on earth with probably less effective infrastructure than any other nation on earth.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The bayonet charge was a very isolated incident at extremely close quarters against significantly less well trained and equipped enemy forces, and we know about it exactly because such actions are so rare.

The ANA conducts mounted operations because it can't get fuel to half the country nor keep vehicles in order, and they're not riding the horses on to enemy positions as far as I'm aware, the horses are transport as opposed to battle mount. Afghanistan is also probably one of, it not the, most primal places on earth with probably less effective infrastructure than any other nation on earth.

True, Afghanistan doe remind me of a Deathworld, just like Detroit reminds me of cities of Death.

I'm just glad I don't live in either place

I must not have missed the day in BUDS when we learned to ride horses... GW jumped the shark a long time ago with SW. I don't ever want new releases or a new codex for my army again. I don't know how they could get any more ridiculous with it but I'm sure they'll find a way.

It's funny how "Balanced" for imperial armies means "Take away everything they had that was cool"

Meanwhile "balanced" for xenos means ... well.. our current Tau and Eldar codexes that cant be touched when played for abuse.

 MWHistorian wrote:
But we don't ware them into battle was my point.

This guy did:


Incidentally, he's also the biggest badass to ever badass!

edit: that's Theodore Roosevelt, in case the picture isn't clear. Which it's really not, I guess...

 streamdragon wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
But we don't ware them into battle was my point.

This guy did:


Incidentally, he's also the biggest badass to ever badass!

edit: that's Theodore Roosevelt, in case the picture isn't clear. Which it's really not, I guess...

That was also a hundred years ago.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
But we don't ware them into battle was my point.

This guy did:


Incidentally, he's also the biggest badass to ever badass!

edit: that's Theodore Roosevelt, in case the picture isn't clear. Which it's really not, I guess...

That was also a hundred years ago.

And 40k is 37,000+ years from now.

I mean, if you don't like it you don't like it, fair enough. I don't see it as all that silly when put in context of the rest of the universe around it though.

Yea, a levitating wolf drawn sled doesn't exactly strike "battle ready vehicle". First off, it's too damn tall to actually attack much of anything. Second, are the Wolves for show or do the sleds rockets not work? Are you either riding a busted vehicle or wanting to look and be ineffective in combat with dogs pulling it? It doesn't work in a game with rail cannons, plasma guns, and what not.

Logan Grimnar doesn't strike a "Teddy Roosevelt" chord. Maybe Herald Deathwolf does as I always liked TCAV (I started 40k when old wolves hit, so I was part of that problem).