Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Sigvatr wrote:
If GW was sensible, they'd slightly increase the cost of the AB and the NS.

But since this is GW, you are quite likely to see them go up by 50+ points and become terrible.

Well, I hope that's not the case, but I do see a price increase happening.

Here's a question for Necron players about Annihilation Barges:

1) How much would they have to cost for you to seriously consider whether or not to include them?

2) At what point cost would you consider them too expensive to ever include in competitive play?

 vipoid wrote:
Here's a question for Necron players about Annihilation Barges:

1) How much would they have to cost for you to seriously consider whether or not to include them?

2) At what point cost would you consider them too expensive to ever include in competitive play?

I could see them costing 100-110 points for what they are now. But, I honestly think Tesla needs to change a bit. Like, give Necrons Ignores Cover, and Tesla weapons fit that role pretty well in my opinion. (People can't complain, Serpent shields are still directly better.) And if they did that, I could see spending 120-130+ points on an Annihilation Barge, especially because Living Metal will probably change as well.

I'd say that ~110-120 pts would be an okay price for the AB.

 vipoid wrote:
Here's a question for Necron players about Annihilation Barges:

1) How much would they have to cost for you to seriously consider whether or not to include them?

2) At what point cost would you consider them too expensive to ever include in competitive play?

In isolation from any other changes that's hard to say. Probably around 110 would stop the common "how many ABs could I buy for those points" dilemma in Necron list building.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Here's a question for Necron players about Annihilation Barges:

1) How much would they have to cost for you to seriously consider whether or not to include them?

2) At what point cost would you consider them too expensive to ever include in competitive play?

(People can't complain, Serpent shields are still directly better.)

Serpent Shield is widely regarded as an overpowered rule. You should never try to justify a rule by appealing to the OP, that way lies the arms race. Serpent Shield just needs to be suffered through until it gets its rightly deserved nerfing.
Switching Tesla weapons to Shock (Doesn't work on snapshots) would go a good way towards solving a lot of balance problems alone- Tesla is meant to give you a bonus on good rolls, not take a tradeoff (only hit on sixes in exchange for jinking or geting to shoot at chargers) and make it statistically better to force yourself to snapfire. Especially the Annie Barge and Night Scythe, two of the ill-regarded units. If Tesla worked like shock, it would mean that choosing to Jink would be an actual choice, rather than a nobrainer. Fix Tesla, Fix Invasion Beam a tad, bring the Annie Barge to 100 points, and two of the major issues people have with the Cron Dex are basically solved.
Mindshackle Scarabs, maybe change them so models in BtB are WS1.

Then buff some of the lesser used stuff- Give the Triatch walker skyfire. Praetorians Drop to about 30 points each, and Lychguard get 2+ armor base.
Change Living Metal to -1 on the damage chart and IWND, take it off the planes and barges.

Ignore cover is an excellent suggestion for Tesla (if it has to be changed, which it doesn't), Necrons could really do with some of that.

Straight up nerfing it and then also increasing the points cost of ABs would be ridiculous. Averaging maybe 1.5 S 6/7 AP- hit after jinking is just pathetic.

Tekron wrote:
Ignore cover is an excellent suggestion for Tesla (if it has to be changed, which it doesn't), Necrons could really do with some of that.

Straight up nerfing it and then also increasing the points cost of ABs would be ridiculous. Averaging maybe 1.5 S 6/7 AP- hit after jinking is just pathetic.

Exactly. Thats why I cringe when people say to nerf it AND raise the cost. Hello. Tesla is good anti-infantry and light vehicle (which we don't care about anyway), but people need to realize that we're spending 90 points for essentially one gun. A nerf in any form would pretty much make it worthless. Therefor, I think a points increase is sufficient. And if they made it not work on Snap Shots, it would make sense, but at the same time they would need to give us some form of defense against things, like make Living Metal a freaking invuln or something (I personally think it's current ruling is dumb, and doesn't really fit with what it does in the fluff). Otherwise, if we jink, we pretty much lose a good bit of fire power, from a heavy support option that is supposed to be giving us a good amount of firepower.

Hopes:
- Half the codex isn't removed
- Half the codex is made usable
- 1/5 of the codex is toned down
- The fluff isn't raped
- No flying boxes or egyptian hover chariots pulled by cats

 krodarklorr wrote:

Exactly. Thats why I cringe when people say to nerf it AND raise the cost. Hello. Tesla is good anti-infantry and light vehicle (which we don't care about anyway), but people need to realize that we're spending 90 points for essentially one gun. A nerf in any form would pretty much make it worthless. Therefor, I think a points increase is sufficient. And if they made it not work on Snap Shots, it would make sense, but at the same time they would need to give us some form of defense against things, like make Living Metal a freaking invuln or something (I personally think it's current ruling is dumb, and doesn't really fit with what it does in the fluff). Otherwise, if we jink, we pretty much lose a good bit of fire power, from a heavy support option that is supposed to be giving us a good amount of firepower.

I would love to give the other HS choices a run out but they all really need some improvements. ABs are so versatile that without good buffs to the others, a point increase is just an army tax because we'll still have to take them.

Spyders need jump for example. I can't think of any other units in the game that are on flying bases but move so slowly.
DAs need to lose the firing mode switch after moving (make it just after jinking), and also open topped because they are too explodey.
Doom Scythes are probably OK as they are. Hover mode would be nice.
I can't come up with anything for Monoliths, except for making the main gun good.

Tekron wrote:

Spyders need jump for example. I can't think of any other units in the game that are on flying bases but move so slowly.

I don't mind them being slow, but why is it that they can only take one gun - and it's both expensive and crap? If they're going to pay 50%of their starting price for a gun, couldn't they get something more useful?

Tekron wrote:

DAs need to lose the firing mode switch after moving (make it just after jinking), and also open topped because they are too explodey.

Let them keep open-topped, just make them a little cheaper. As it stands, they're too much of a liability.

Tekron wrote:

I can't come up with anything for Monoliths, except for making the main gun good.

Let it fire the main gun, and still fire the others at full BS.

- Give vehicles RP.
- Increase the armour save of all infantry units by one.
- Give Warriors and Immortals power swords.
- Make a 2-4 for RP rolls put the models into ongoing reserves.
- Make the gun you get after moving your Doomsday Ark shoot multiple pie plates.
- Remove the gauss flayers from the Monolith or make them a wargear option that replaces the big gun.
- Adjust point costs accordingly.
- Remove Tomb Blades, Praetorians, Ghost Arks and Scythes.
- Hemorrhage money.

I like the new 5th edition lore for Lords and C'tan but I feel like the "slow but implacable army of technologically superior zombies" vibe the rank and file are meant to have is diminished somewhat when they all zip around in pastries and die faster than SoBs.

This is what I'm hoping for

At least we don't to worry about losing characters without models.

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:
- Give vehicles RP.
- Increase the armour save of all infantry units by one.
- Give Warriors and Immortals power swords.
- Make a 2-4 for RP rolls put the models into ongoing reserves.
- Make the gun you get after moving your Doomsday Ark shoot multiple pie plates.
- Remove the gauss flayers from the Monolith or make them a wargear option that replaces the big gun.
- Adjust point costs accordingly.
- Remove Tomb Blades, Praetorians, Ghost Arks and Scythes.
- Hemorrhage money.

I like the new 5th edition lore for Lords and C'tan but I feel like the "slow but implacable army of technologically superior zombies" vibe the rank and file are meant to have is diminished somewhat when they all zip around in pastries and die faster than SoBs.

Uhh...not sure if trolling?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 adamsouza wrote:
This is what I'm hoping for

Intimidating, but I doubt it would happen. Though, a big Canoptek battlesuit of some kind would be awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
At least we don't to worry about losing characters without models.

That is true. I just wish some of them would become more useful. Like, if they make Imotehk a Lord of War, make him better. Please...

 krodarklorr wrote:

Intimidating, but I doubt it would happen. Though, a big Canoptek battlesuit of some kind would be awesome..

DONE !!

As long as the Necrons get something, other than a floating building, as big as an Imperial Knight, I would be happy about it.

If Canoptek Spyders make scarabs, what makes Canoptek Spyders ???????

 adamsouza wrote:
what makes Canoptek Spyders ???????

Factories.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
what makes Canoptek Spyders ???????

Factories.

Put legs and guns on it and we're good to go

 krodarklorr wrote:
Uhh...not sure if trolling?

I'm being as serious as a Plague Marine in the spring time.

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Uhh...not sure if trolling?

I'm being as serious as a Plague Marine in the spring time.

>.<

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Uhh...not sure if trolling?

I'm being as serious as a Plague Marine in the spring time.

>.<

"I make jokes when I have nothing of value to say."

So back on-topic:
I always thought the SC's were okay. Today was the biggest example why not: Apocalypse!
When even in a game of Apocalypse I was reading through most of them and thought "Why would I want to take this?"

Now I am stuck with two Special Characters: Zahndrekh because he's incredibly powerful and Illuminor because he buffs my Infinite Phalanx.
Everything else was just too boring, unneeded or too slow. And that in a game where point-cost hardly matters.

Kangodo wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Uhh...not sure if trolling?

I'm being as serious as a Plague Marine in the spring time.

>.<

"I make jokes when I have nothing of value to say."

So back on-topic:
I always thought the SC's were okay. Today was the biggest example why not: Apocalypse!
When even in a game of Apocalypse I was reading through most of them and thought "Why would I want to take this?"

Now I am stuck with two Special Characters: Zahndrekh because he's incredibly powerful and Illuminor because he buffs my Infinite Phalanx.
Everything else was just too boring, unneeded or too slow. And that in a game where point-cost hardly matters.

Well, I think Imotehk would be obnoxious in Apoc. Here's a chance to hit everything on your side of the field, plus, constant night fighting.

Kangodo wrote:

So back on-topic:
I always thought the SC's were okay. Today was the biggest example why not: Apocalypse!
When even in a game of Apocalypse I was reading through most of them and thought "Why would I want to take this?"

I think that for non-apocalypse games.

If the new books are a trend, then the Necrons will mostly like get artefacts, a few points changes, and a removal of several special rules.

 Yonan wrote:

- The fluff isn't raped

Was that really necessary? Learn some bloody respect.

 vipoid wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

So back on-topic:
I always thought the SC's were okay. Today was the biggest example why not: Apocalypse!
When even in a game of Apocalypse I was reading through most of them and thought "Why would I want to take this?"

I think that for non-apocalypse games.

Haha, yeah, even the expensive HQs are typically easily replaced by an Overlord on a barge.

 vipoid wrote:
I think that for non-apocalypse games.

That too But it was even worse because I didn't care about point-costs and they were still too boring to take.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Well, I think Imotehk would be obnoxious in Apoc. Here's a chance to hit everything on your side of the field, plus, constant night fighting.

The big problem is that it works against your allies.
Most games I play are either:
-With allies that get hurt by Imothek.
-Without allies and too small to field him.

So, here's a thought. What would you guys do to change the C'Tan shard? Would you want him to stay the same, just change his powers to actually be good? Or bring back the old C'tan profile from the 3rd edition book?

 krodarklorr wrote:
So, here's a thought. What would you guys do to change the C'Tan shard? Would you want him to stay the same, just change his powers to actually be good?

I'd like it to be not quite as crap.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Or bring back the old C'tan profile from the 3rd edition book?

The sad thing is, even it's old profile seems far from impressive nowadays.

 vipoid wrote:

I'd like it to be not quite as crap.

The sad thing is, even it's old profile seems far from impressive nowadays.

I mean, I think they should make him a bit more expensive, bring back his old statline, and keep requirement to buy him powers. Except, the powers are actually usable. Like I dunno, make him a jump MC?

But all I know is, I would sure as hell pay 300+ points to field something that can take on a wraithknight.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

I'd like it to be not quite as crap.

The sad thing is, even it's old profile seems far from impressive nowadays.

I mean, I think they should make him a bit more expensive, bring back his old statline, and keep requirement to buy him powers. Except, the powers are actually usable. Like I dunno, make him a jump MC?

But all I know is, I would sure as hell pay 300+ points to field something that can take on a wraithknight.

First I'd make the C'tan Shard have different tier levels, based on how many 'shards' are in it.

Tier 1: Weak one shard, one power, X statline

Tier 2: Stronger, two to three powers, Y Statline

Tier 3: Landraider + cost, four to five power, Z statline.

Or instead they can take better powers at higher levels, but that's just me, probably never gonna happen though.