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morgoth wrote:
I guess I misunderstood the overlord / phaeron thingy then my bad.

Yeah it's so easy to counter MSS. Challenge ?
Damn, now your über CC machine is either not fighting or nuking itself / own unit or maybe fighting.

Overlord-tax ? seriously ? you pay a tax to get wildly undercosted units ? .. I think that's fine. That tax is free when taking a CCB lord anyway.

If you take the charge, you can decide to resolve MSS first.
Tadaaa!

Kangodo wrote:

If you take the charge, you can decide to resolve MSS first.
Tadaaa!

But of course... one of the BRB's very slowed rules. Everything makes sense now.

I don't know if I'll ever think that way tbh. Good to know anyway.

Either way, with your wraith, that's unlikely right

morgoth wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

What you forget is, nerfing something AND raising the points cost, will limit, if not stop the use of the unit all together. And what army do you even play? Because I'm pretty sure you have plenty of options to deal with Necron's stuff, and are probably just butt hurt about losing a few times to Necrons.

Yes, the Command Barge needs a price increase and some rules changes, sure. MSS will stay, but get worded differently so it actually works decent. Otherwise, 90 points for an Overlord with gakky combat abilities? No. Simply, no.

And Deathmarks are not as amazing as you make them out to be. Yes, they can deep strike, yes they can wound ONE unit on a 2+. They have 24" guns. And will typically be out in the open. They can't act like generic snipers, and will probably get shot to bits as soon as they come out.

Imotehk is also a 225 point named character that is gakky in CC, has a one time use shooting attack, and a flamer. I'm okay with him having ONE good ability. Will they change the wording and effect slightly? Sure. Otherwise, he'll become a LoW and that'll be the end of it.

Raising the cost is nerfing something, so it's the same thing, so no need to do it twice.

I have plenty of options and I generally don't care about the Necrons (or any army for that matter).

The Command Barge is utterly broken, MSS are utterly broken, they make just about any real CC threat afraid of a single gakky necron lord. how much sense does that make to you ? for 15 points ?
No point talking about naked overlords, the upgrade to phaeron for example is already a big load of bull, as it unlocks way undercosted units.

Deathmarks are shotguns not snipers, they may not be amazing but their ability to deep strike and one shot MCs isn't too bad. Probably not good enough to be nerfed though you're right.

Imotekh is a problem because his ability ignores most game mechanics AND scales with the size of the battle. On a 90K points Apocalypse battlefield, he's worth 5k points at the very least.
That makes him useless in small games and completely OP in big games.


And I also hope they fix the death ray / reword it so it doesn't just hit invisible / flyers.

Well, most people have talked about Nerfing Tesla AND still raising the cost of Annihilation Barges. No one would take them at that point.

The Command Barge needs reworking, yes. MSS needs to be reworded or something, you're right. But they shouldn't just outright get rid of it, without making Necron Overlords better in CC, or make them shooty, or something. As it stands they're best in CC, which is sad considering they still suck at it. And are you really complaining about Phaeron? The upgrade is useless most of the time.

Deathmarks are, arguably, our only real defense against things like Wraithknights, Trygons, Riptides, Dreadknights, ext. Anything with high Toughness and a good Armor save we suck at killing, and that's where Deathmarks come in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

morgoth wrote:


Yeah it's so easy to counter MSS. Challenge ?
Damn, now your über CC machine is either not fighting or nuking itself / own unit or maybe fighting.
.

MSS doesn't work as well in challenges anymore. The rules for Challenges says you're counted as being in bas with the opponent, but can still be in base with other models, and therefor you have to randomly determine the target of MSS. Me and my girlfriend swapped armies and I used that against her. I had a Sorcerer and a Termy in base with the overlord. 2/3 of the turns of combat it randomized on the Termy and not the guy in the challenge.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Deathmarks are, arguably, our only real defense against things like Wraithknights, Trygons, Riptides, Dreadknights, ext. Anything with high Toughness and a good Armor save we suck at killing, and that's where Deathmarks come in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

morgoth wrote:


Yeah it's so easy to counter MSS. Challenge ?
Damn, now your über CC machine is either not fighting or nuking itself / own unit or maybe fighting.
.

MSS doesn't work as well in challenges anymore. The rules for Challenges says you're counted as being in bas with the opponent, but can still be in base with other models, and therefor you have to randomly determine the target of MSS. Me and my girlfriend swapped armies and I used that against her. I had a Sorcerer and a Termy in base with the overlord. 2/3 of the turns of combat it randomized on the Termy and not the guy in the challenge.

1. Deathmarks will one-turn blast away any MC in the game with insane efficiency. I don't think it's just your only real defense, it's clearly crazy good against tyranids.

2. Nope, the BRB says you should move your models:

If a challenge has been accepted, it is time to move the two combatants into base contact with each other. Note that these moves cannot be used to move a character out of unit coherency. If possible, swap the challenger for a friendly model in base contact with the challengee. If this cannot be done, swap the challengee for a friendly model in base contact with the challenger.

morgoth wrote:

1. Deathmarks will one-turn blast away any MC in the game with insane efficiency. I don't think it's just your only real defense, it's clearly crazy good against tyranids.

2. Nope, the BRB says you should move your models:

If a challenge has been accepted, it is time to move the two combatants into base contact with each other. Note that these moves cannot be used to move a character out of unit coherency. If possible, swap the challenger for a friendly model in base contact with the challengee. If this cannot be done, swap the challengee for a friendly model in base contact with the challenger.

Yes, yes they can. They can do that once, and then die horribly. But GW can get rid of them or nerf them if they want, as long as they do the same to Grav Guns.

And yeah, that is how challenges work now. You can also attack into a challenge, and therefor you're in base contact. It also doesn't say you count as being in base with ONLY the challenger. So, there are a bunch of ways to get around MSS.

Necrons existed in the rogue trader days and as a small army in 2nd edition.m the full Necron codex was the last of the existing armies to get full codex treatment other than Tau which were introduced as a new race. We were not updated in 4th at all and the last codex in 5th, which was also written with 6th edition in mind. It will be no different for 7th edition with regards to getting a new hardback codex. And if you enjoy spamming the small amount of actually useful units than you're in a necron a heaven. If you enjoy using a monoliths, C'tan, and destroyers, you're wasting away in necrons hell with me.

morgoth wrote:
1. Deathmarks will one-turn blast away any MC in the game with insane efficiency. I don't think it's just your only real defense, it's clearly crazy good against tyranids.

Well, 10 Deathmarks (assuming rapid fire):

20 shots
2/3 to hit
(1/3 wound, MC gets a save, 1/6 rend)
So, ~3 wounds on a MC with a 2+ save, 3.7 wounds on a MC with a 3+ save.
On average, most MCs will survive, albeit injured.
And, that's not counting the possibility of Cover, Invulnerable saves or FNP.

Hardly blasting away any MC in the game, let alone with insane efficiency.

I would love for a C'tan rework. Make it cheaper naked by about 20-35pts and don't give it a mandatory two power requirement and remove the limit of you can only take each power once per army. Still amke it you can only pick up to two different powers though. I want an unbound C'tan shard army dang it!

Oh and give it more weapon options then what it currently has. Make lord of fire have a heavy flamer or two and bump pts accordingly. Give Writhing worldscape a range entropic strike attack S4 ap- assault 3. Maybe make swarm of spirit dust give it invisable instead of stealth or give invisible to grand illusion? And give the thunderbolt tesla?

I feel giving it a strong offensive power to compensate for its very sad armor and invul save

 vipoid wrote:

morgoth wrote:
1. Deathmarks will one-turn blast away any MC in the game with insane efficiency. I don't think it's just your only real defense, it's clearly crazy good against tyranids.

Well, 10 Deathmarks (assuming rapid fire):

20 shots
2/3 to hit
(1/3 wound, MC gets a save, 1/6 rend)
So, ~3 wounds on a MC with a 2+ save, 3.7 wounds on a MC with a 3+ save.
On average, most MCs will survive, albeit injured.
And, that's not counting the possibility of Cover, Invulnerable saves or FNP.

Hardly blasting away any MC in the game, let alone with insane efficiency.

This makes me feel bad about only fielding 5 of them, and rethink the value of 190 points to field 10 of them.

 vipoid wrote:

morgoth wrote:
1. Deathmarks will one-turn blast away any MC in the game with insane efficiency. I don't think it's just your only real defense, it's clearly crazy good against tyranids.

Well, 10 Deathmarks (assuming rapid fire):

20 shots
2/3 to hit
(1/3 wound, MC gets a save, 1/6 rend)
So, ~3 wounds on a MC with a 2+ save, 3.7 wounds on a MC with a 3+ save.
On average, most MCs will survive, albeit injured.
And, that's not counting the possibility of Cover, Invulnerable saves or FNP.

Hardly blasting away any MC in the game, let alone with insane efficiency.

...and don't forget about the looming mishap when you're forced to deepstrike 12'' close to your enemy.

Well, those 10 Deathmarks are very good value against competitive units like WK and Riptide, amazing against Tyranids (I guess) but I guess they're not as crazy as some other Necron units.

I just can't help but think I'd rather have them than Eldar Rangers (which I don't feel like fielding).

I apologise - I made a mistake earlier in my maths. I completely forgot about the Deathmark's 'Declare Target' ability (whatever it's called), which lets them wound on 2+.

So, if the MC is their target, then they average 3.7 wounds on a 2+ save MC, and 5 wounds on a 3+ save MC (assuming no FNP, Invulnerable or Cover).

Sorry about that.

morgoth wrote:
Well, those 10 Deathmarks are very good value against competitive units like WK and Riptide, amazing against Tyranids (I guess) but I guess they're not as crazy as some other Necron units.

I just can't help but think I'd rather have them than Eldar Rangers (which I don't feel like fielding).

Yeah, they're really only good at taking out MCs, other than that, eh. But they're also our only defense against them, really. We don't have much else that can easily deal with MCs, especially the Wraith Knight.

Plastic Royal Court Box set
$50 US 5 models (1 overlord and 4 lords/crypteks)

 adamsouza wrote:
Plastic Royal Court Box set
$50 US 5 models (1 overlord and 4 lords/crypteks)

*Shudders*

calling it now

Necron Codex
30 pounds / 39 euros / 49.50 USD // 150zł

Overlord Edition (Limited Edition: 1000)
- Codex Necrons
- Grim Dark Fiction
- 6 akrylowych markerów / 6 objective markers
- karty oddziałów na specjalnym papierze / folio containing units datacards
- sztywne twarde etui na to wszystko / hardback slipcase
110 pounds / 145 euros / 180 USD // 550zł

Trancendant C'Tan Edition (Limited Edition: 500)
- Codex Necrons
- Grim Dark Fiction
- Dark Harvest Supplement
- 6 akrylowych markerów / 6 objective markers
- karty oddziałów na specjalnym papierze / folio containing units datacards
- sztywne twarde etui na to wszystko / hardback slipcase
150 pounds / 200 euros / 250 USD // 750zł

Data Cards
5 pounds / 6.50 euros / 8 USD // 25zł

Obligatory Troop + Transport Bundle
8 Necron Warrios plus Ghost Ark
70 USD

Obligatory Troop + Transport Bundle
5 Immortals plus Night Scythe
70 USD

Deathmarks / Immortals
10 models
35 pounds / 45 euros / 60 USD // 180zł

Lychguard / Triarch Praetorians
10 models
35 pounds / 45 euros / 60 USD // 180zł

New Models ?

Flayed Ones (now multipart Plastic)
10 models
35 pounds / 45 euros / 60 USD // 180zł

Royal Court Box Set
5 Models ( 1 overlord and 4 lords/ crypteks)
$53

Why do i find that painfully easy to believe?

I'm hoping for a Necron update similar to the Dark Eldar one.

As for Lord of War, Necrons already have a plastic lord of war kit that makes 3 options, so I imagine the Obelisk/tesseract Vault to be in the cron book. I'd also love to see the C'Tan shard/Transcendant stan merged to make a LoW choice that is more powerful than a C'Tan shard but not utterly stupid strong like the Tran-C'Tan is now.

So...anyone else wanting lore changes?

I would like the function of the dolmen gates to go from transportation to an offensive weapon.
Think about it: instead of using the webway to travel (which is dumb), the dolmen gates could instead be used as a way of fighting the Eldar's mobility, by opening a breach in the webway and flooding it with a null field, causing it to collapse.

Basically, I want it to become a depth charge.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I'm hoping for a Necron update similar to the Dark Eldar one.

As for Lord of War, Necrons already have a plastic lord of war kit that makes 3 options, so I imagine the Obelisk/tesseract Vault to be in the cron book. I'd also love to see the C'Tan shard/Transcendant stan merged to make a LoW choice that is more powerful than a C'Tan shard but not utterly stupid strong like the Tran-C'Tan is now.

Eh, I would kind of like to have two separate models still. I'd like one that's useable in regular games without people complaining about it, though I still wish the regular C'tan could use a boost or something.

I'd like to see Pariahs return as part of the Royal Court.

Being able to add one to each squad would make Necrons the Anti Pysker Army

 adamsouza wrote:
I'd like to see Pariahs return as part of the Royal Court.

Being able to add one to each squad would make Necrons the Anti Pysker Army

Would make sense, and I'd like to see Pariahs come back, regardless of how.

Perhaps they can be an escort for a cryptek? Like, may have 1 pariah for each cryptek in the army?

I don't want them to become necrons though. I want them to be like how they were fluff wise in the old dex; humans with the pariah gene who were turned into a specific type of unit. For extra horror factor they can even have their brain intact.

Personally generally accepting there will be nerfs across the board, IE Grey Knights and DE but if Pariahs come back with a plastic kit and the same rules as Culexus Assassins(minus the gun) I'll be very happy!

Maybe a fix to immortals to let them have a seat in the ghost ark or could be healed by them?

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Personally generally accepting there will be nerfs across the board, IE Grey Knights and DE but if Pariahs come back with a plastic kit and the same rules as Culexus Assassins(minus the gun) I'll be very happy!

Across the board? I'd be upset if more than three, perhaps four, units were nerfed.
That'd be AB's, NS's, Wraiths and perhaps, really perhaps, even Ghost Arks a little.

What I mean is anything perceived to be OP will be nerfed like the DE and GK were nerfed. In general I expect to see point increases on most quality units. I hope that it's not true and they make they low tier units like a Destroyers, Praetorians, Monoliths etc. playable and even desirable again. Just not holding my breath or expecting it in any way. I hope to be pleasantly surprised. Would love to see a return to the mindless no Dynasty nature of the 3rd edition codex. Just not sure how GW can right the narrative ship considering the nature of the 5th edition models.

Oberron wrote:
Maybe a fix to immortals to let them have a seat in the ghost ark or could be healed by them?

Yes, please.

Doubling down on the return of Pariahs. Just bought a squad of 10 on EBay.

I'm either going to be ahead of the pack or have 10 new Crypteks

Oberron wrote:
Maybe a fix to immortals to let them have a seat in the ghost ark or could be healed by them?

That rule is basically in place because the model doesn't support Immortals aesthetically. They won't be fixing that unless Forge World plans on making a conversion kit(not likely), that model is the biggest PITA of a kit I have ever had to put together, twice. I like the idea of repairing Immortals but carrying them is doubtful, maybe an Immortal transport or deep strike ability?