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How do you determine what happens if you roll a die, it ends up cocked and needs to be re-rolled because you can not determine the number it was on, then the re-roll ends up cocked and you can not determine the number it was on?

Anyone have any insight?

do you just house rule it at that point because it seems like the game breaks.

That's not a reroll, but its rolling again because the dice was cocked

Cocked dice are 'dice hasn't been rolled'. It's not a reroll, it's just a 'try that again because it didn't work the first time'.

A cocked die is a die that's result isn't determinable because its on a slant so you don't know which side it was going to land on.

Why would it actually count towards the games "only reroll once" clause? That would be like rolling a die off the table and assuming that means you get less shots.

Picking up a cocked die and re-rolling it does not count as a Re-roll, game mechanics-wise.

Be sure that you and your opponent agree when a die is cocked however, before picking it up.

It's good sportsmanship.

I believe the Fantasy rulebook solved it the best. You can only reroll a die due to being cocked if a second die slides off the cocked one, if it does not slide off then the highest facing stands.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Why would it actually count towards the games "only reroll once" clause? That would be like rolling a die off the table and assuming that means you get less shots.

That's not as crazy of house rule as you'd think. The book even has that exact example on page 11 in the "dice on the floor" rule of someone who plays that way.

The book itself does state that a cocked dice is a "re-roll", however nobody I know counts it towards the "only one re-roll" rule. It is common practice to say that the dice was not successfully rolled and so you are given an additional re-roll. The same practice applies to dice off the table, though the rulebook provides an example of an alternative procedure.

Locally it depends on my opponent, Some agree that if it is in any way/shape/form not 100% flat, it is cocked. While others agree that if its generally flat it stays(like able to look at it and see if a dice could be reasonably stacked on it), really depends on my opponent.

Bojazz wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

Why would it actually count towards the games "only reroll once" clause? That would be like rolling a die off the table and assuming that means you get less shots.

That's not as crazy of house rule as you'd think. The book even has that exact example on page 11 in the "dice on the floor" rule of someone who plays that way.

I've been playing that way since I started 40k. If the player can't hit the six foot table with a die from just inches away, what makes em think the soldier can shoot an enemy with a bullet from much farther. Instant miss or equipment failure or whatever else is a fluffy way to say 'you messed up and auto fail'.

 BunkerBob wrote:
I believe the Fantasy rulebook solved it the best. You can only reroll a die due to being cocked if a second die slides off the cocked one, if it does not slide off then the highest facing stands.

That's a ridiculously awkward way of resolving it. I've had several opponents try to do this, and it achieves nothing except to waste time.

If the die isn't sitting flat, roll it again. Done.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Cocked dice are 'dice hasn't been rolled'. It's not a reroll, it's just a 'try that again because it didn't work the first time'.

Citation needed, because the rules for cocked dice do not mention that at all.

 Ghaz wrote:
That's not a reroll, but its rolling again because the dice was cocked

The Cocked dice rule specifically call it a Re-roll.

 CrownAxe wrote:
A cocked die is a die that's result isn't determinable because its on a slant so you don't know which side it was going to land on.

Why would it actually count towards the games "only reroll once" clause? That would be like rolling a die off the table and assuming that means you get less shots.

Because it specifically states you re-roll the dice.

 Deathwinger wrote:
Picking up a cocked die and re-rolling it does not count as a Re-roll, game mechanics-wise.

Citation needed because the Cocked dice rule specifically call it a Re-roll.

A "re-roll" in terms of rules is not re-rolling a dice because it is cocked.

A "re-roll" in terms of rules is you being allowed to re-roll because of a certain special rule.

Cocked dice aren't a re-roll as there is no rule about cocked dice. The BRB only suggests what other players do, it's not a rule, and re-rolls can only be granted by rules.

ref. p.11

ask yourself this, is a cocked dice a result? is it a 1-6?

Yeah, it's not an 'as stated rule' as far as I know. Just a common sense thing. If you flip a coin and it lands on the rim without falling, is that a heads or a tails? Has the heads or tails result been decided? No, you pick the coin up and try again. Cocked dice are handled in whatever way the players deem appropriate and references are made to house rules for them.

 Sigvatr wrote:
A "re-roll" in terms of rules is not re-rolling a dice because it is cocked.

A "re-roll" in terms of rules is you being allowed to re-roll because of a certain special rule.

Cocked dice aren't a re-roll as there is no rule about cocked dice. The BRB only suggests what other players do, it's not a rule, and re-rolls can only be granted by rules.

ref. p.11

So the game breaks, cool.

That is all I was wondering.

P.S. the cocked dice section specifically states that it is a re-roll.

Why does the game break?

 Sigvatr wrote:
Why does the game break?

Because there are no rules that cover the situation when a die ends up cocked and you can not determine what number was rolled.

Ahhh, gotcha, thanks! Yes, there's no RAW for it

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Why does the game break?

Because there are no rules that cover the situation when a die ends up cocked and you can not determine what number was rolled.

It doesn't break though and we have rules to cover it.

we see a cocked dice, I call 6 is on top. you say no it's the 2.

Use most important rule. 4+ it's a 6, 3- it's a 2.

of course it can just be house ruled to taste.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Why does the game break?

Because there are no rules that cover the situation when a die ends up cocked and you can not determine what number was rolled.

It doesn't break though and we have rules to cover it.

we see a cocked dice, I call 6 is on top. you say no it's the 2.

Use most important rule. 4+ it's a 6, 3- it's a 2.

of course it can just be house ruled to taste.

No, TMIR does not apply.

TMIR happens "If you find that you and your opponent cannot agree on the application of a rule..." (General Principles chapter, The Most Important Rule section). There are no rules to apply in this situation.

The game actually does break. We do not have any rules that cover it.

Nice try though.

 DeathReaper wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Why does the game break?

Because there are no rules that cover the situation when a die ends up cocked and you can not determine what number was rolled.

It doesn't break though and we have rules to cover it.

we see a cocked dice, I call 6 is on top. you say no it's the 2.

Use most important rule. 4+ it's a 6, 3- it's a 2.

of course it can just be house ruled to taste.

No, TMIR does not apply.

TMIR happens "If you find that you and your opponent cannot agree on the application of a rule..." (General Principles chapter, The Most Important Rule section). There are no rules to apply in this situation.

The game actually does break. We do not have any rules that cover it.

Nice try though.

In that case the dice is cocked, I call it a 6. You have no rules basis to disagree with it, it's a 6 and we move on.

sirlynchmob wrote:
In that case the dice is cocked, I call it a 6. You have no rules basis to disagree with it, it's a 6 and we move on.

Not at all, because You may call it a 6, I will say it is not able to be determined. Again we are at an Impasse and the game breaks. Because neither of us have any rules support.

Nice try though.

 DeathReaper wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:
In that case the dice is cocked, I call it a 6. You have no rules basis to disagree with it, it's a 6 and we move on.

Not at all, because You may call it a 6, I will say it is not able to be determined. Again we are at an Impasse and the game breaks. Because neither of us have any rules support.

Nice try though.

No you don't have any rules, I rolled the dice as the rules stated I should, I saw a 6, I followed the rules.

you can say it can't be determined all you like, I rolled the dice, I read the dice. on what rules basis can you claim it can't be determined, do you have a rule for that? or permission to disagree with how I read the dice?

And I saw a 2, now what?

 DeathReaper wrote:
And I saw a 2, now what?

can you cite a rule where I need you to agree with the result of my dice? if not your objection is mute, and you can see a pink unicorn for all it matters.

Care to cite a Rule where you get to announce what you believe the Dice face to be, and that your announced number is the results we use?

Oh I just love YMDC! It's fun when something as simple as cocked dice can turn into a page long debate.

JinxDragon wrote:
Care to cite a Rule where you get to announce what you believe the Dice face to be, and that your announced number is the results we use?

If neither of us can read the dice the game ends as soon as we roll for mission.

Yeah, this is silly. So there is no rule in the rulebook, so what? The game has been going for a pretty long time without it and I haven't heard of any stories in 7th where a new player curls up and cries because there's no definitive rule for cocked dice. If your point was to bring attention to missing bit of rules, good work, it's amusing that it wasn't included. But really, who cares. Players will make do. There's no rule for broken flight stands either but that happens. Is it just as game breaking? What about dice with a little face on em? That's not a six so it's only D5. Game breaking.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Why does the game break?

Because there are no rules that cover the situation when a die ends up cocked and you can not determine what number was rolled.

The game broke before that, then, as there are no rules that tell us how to roll the dice in the first place.

The game is written on the assumption that people know how to roll dice. A cocked die has not been correctly rolled. You don't really need a rule to tell you to do it over.