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I am having a little bit of thunderfire problems. I play primarily CSM. I have all the better units, such as obliterators, heldrakes, maulerfiends, and A LOT of other stuff. My problem is with the thunderfire cannons I run into, in particular with one person. I need some strategies on how to focus on them, especially when he's rushing jump units at me.

Also, I am not sure if he's using them properly. He runs a unit with servitors, a techmarine, and a thunderfire cannon. He argues that since the thunderfire is t7, and if you shoot at it, that the wounds can be allocated to the servitors. Having to get the two wounds on the thunderfire is hard enough, it's even harder when they are being allocated to the servitors. Is this right?

Well a TFC uses a "techmarine gunner" as opposed to the HQ "techmarine" who can take servitors. The TFC unit is in codex as the gun and the "techmarine gunner". I don't see he can add servitors to that unit. I guess he buy another independent character techmarine+servitors and join it to that TFC unit but that would be overkill.

Is he arguing he can "look out sir" the wounds you inflict on the T7 cannon to servitors?

There is only one techmarine at the TFC. And yes, he argues he can look out sir to the servitors. This is a 2+ look out sir, too.

I dont see how he can attach servotors to that unit.

I dont have rulebook with me but I look out sir is for characters and the tfc is not a character.

So I am no expert with rules, but I think he is playing you on two counts.

Well, then that would suggest why it's so unbelievably hard to kill them. He puts them in ruins, bolsters, takes the t7 wounds, allocates via LOS to a servitor, after taking cover save of 3+. You basically have to get 4 wounds to take the damn thing out.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is wrong on another account, as he doesn't have to LOS

Yeah man that really sucks, well I think he is cheating.

Any rules experts out there care to comment?

Even if he could attach servitors to the unit, don't you shoot at the majority toughness? (toughness of the servitors?)

Either way I'm pretty sure you can't attach servitors to a Thunderfire. And the Thunderfire definitely can't use Look Out Sir.

Just curious, what is he killing in your army with the Thunderfire? It doesn't have AP 2 or 3 weaponry and shouldn't hurt your heavier stuff too much.

Oh boy....

Well to start even if they could buy the servitors, the techmarine gunner is not an independent character so that stops right there.

@Zimko: not under artillery (they use the artillery T which is 7)

I think my post is turning into a rules question. Can it be moved to rules?

Quick hit the friendship triangle!

TFC unit's Techmarine is not a character in any sense of the word. Not an IC, doesn't have the character subtype. No Look Out Sir at all. Guns themselves can't make LOS either.

Now if he can take servitors is a better question. The answer is that it doesn't matter for your game - Servitors are their own unit, they cannot join other units. This includes the TFC+Gunner, which is its own unit. They are two entirely separate units, including for purposes of shooting.

When you see him again, ask him for his book and look at the bottom of page 175 carefully.

As to how to fight them? Fairly, following the rules. People have hard enough time against T7 grot defenders, I can only imagine how tough those crazy Servitors must've been for you.

The techmarine is a Techmarine Gunner (it is not the same as a normal Techmarine) and cannot take servitors.

You cannot look out sir attacks without a character ...however if he puts the gunner in front of the TFC then the wound would go on the techmarine gunner. With artillery shooting attacks hit the closest model.

With artillery...all shooting attacks go against the toughness of the gun T7 no matter how many crew there are (I.E. T7 grots w/ orc cannons) Now in close combat you use the toughness of the gunner/crew.

So basically your opponent is either cheating horribly or just doesn't know/understand the rules.

Use poisoned or sniper weapons. And get him to follow the rules.

 Nuln_Oil wrote:
I think my post is turning into a rules question. Can it be moved to rules?

Done

This all makes sense now. Essentially I was dealing with 4 wounds on a T7 unit with 3+ cover saves (when using lascannons). I'm reasonably upset.

For one, the servitor unit you can purchase with a Techmarine or Master of the Forge, can never be joined to another unit. It is not permanently attatched to the IC like drones or wolves.

It is a completely seperate unit in and of itself.

Secondly, the gunner of the thunderfire cannon cant even buy one.

 Nuln_Oil wrote:
This all makes sense now. Essentially I was dealing with 4 wounds on a T7 unit with 3+ cover saves (when using lascannons). I'm reasonably upset.

3 wounds, 2 for the cannon and one for the techmarine.

Just remember if you assault the TFC your attacks go on the gunner. Once the gunner dies the cannon is useless and is removed. Only 1 wound to take out that thing then. Might be better than blasting away at it if he has cover saves going on. Then you wont ever have to waste any precious lascannon shots on his tfc.

You can also tank shock it and if it fails the LD check i believe the TFC it self is removed and abandoned even if SPESS MAHRINE