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What I would really like to see is Matt Ward leaving GW in a cloud of shame... then going someplace else and doing really, really well!
I honestly have no idea how much of the awful, awful fluff was his fault - but I am hoping that the answer is none, and that left free of the shadow of GW he ends up being a solid rules and fluff designer.
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
paqman wrote: I still beleive to this day that the credited authors were there only for the fluff part and that the rules were written as a collective.
According to the Codex Blood Angel notes from WD a few years back, BOTH are collectively written. The main difference is that the studio has a specific overseer for the fluff that approves everything that makes it into a book(and it wasn't Ward) so that it doesn't go against the direction they want to move the background in.
So blaming any single author for the fluff is disingenuous BS.
From what they've said in the past, the named author is the one that came up with the 'pitch' for the book, and oversaw the whole project. They were collectively written, but one person had the vision for the direction of the overall codex. Alan Merrett is the one that approves fluff.
TheAuldGrump wrote: What I would really like to see is Matt Ward leaving GW in a cloud of shame... then going someplace else and doing really, really well!
I honestly have no idea how much of the awful, awful fluff was his fault - but I am hoping that the answer is none, and that left free of the shadow of GW he ends up being a solid rules and fluff designer.
The Auld Grump
Ok, now chalk this up to 'things I feel really weird admitting in public' dept. I've been reading his blog, and I'm beginning to like Ward.
The first post on it is a cry for more female protagonists in sci-fi and fantasy. One of his latest is defending nerdly devotion to continuity and blaming bad writers for needing to break existing cannon. You know, the exact OPPOSITE of everything we thought he was about.
I notice my posts seem to bring threads to a screeching halt. Considering the content of most threads on dakka, you're welcome.
Please tell me they didn't actually bro-fist and you are just using a metaphor.
It's a case of internet hyperbole. The Blood Angels and Necrons are fighting, but then Nids arrive and the two fight the interlopers. The two factions beat the invasion, but decline to start killing each other again, with the BA commenting that it would be dishonorable to go back to fighting the Crons just after fighting alongside them, and the Crons just leaving.
It's not though. Imagine reading that (and a LOT of people did I'm sure on release) with only the Oldcron background to hand. It destroys every single part of the characterization they had built up for the Necrons prior to that. Now, such a thing is moot as this kind of thing fits with Newcrons background but at the time it simply did not gel.
As much as I hate the violations of the 40K environment that went on in Ward's books I have wondered if Ward became the scapegoat when it was the direction GW wanted to go to enable the ally rules. It used to be that every faction was completely out to kill all of the others, except the occasional self-interested Eldar alliance, but that environment doesn't sell Riptides to Necron players.
Please tell me they didn't actually bro-fist and you are just using a metaphor.
It's a case of internet hyperbole. The Blood Angels and Necrons are fighting, but then Nids arrive and the two fight the interlopers. The two factions beat the invasion, but decline to start killing each other again, with the BA commenting that it would be dishonorable to go back to fighting the Crons just after fighting alongside them, and the Crons just leaving.
It's not though. Imagine reading that (and a LOT of people did I'm sure on release) with only the Oldcron background to hand. It destroys every single part of the characterization they had built up for the Necrons prior to that. Now, such a thing is moot as this kind of thing fits with Newcrons background but at the time it simply did not gel.
As much as I hate the violations of the 40K environment that went on in Ward's books I have wondered if Ward became the scapegoat when it was the direction GW wanted to go to enable the ally rules. It used to be that every faction was completely out to kill all of the others, except the occasional self-interested Eldar alliance, but that environment doesn't sell Riptides to Necron players.
I was just saying that to a friend. They may have used his fluff to sew the seeds of the allies matrix.
Not an official word from Nottingham, but someone who would be in the know, being an official tester and all ...
"You're not meant to practice the art of scrimshaw on your own bones, but when you've already cut away the fat and the meat, what's left?" - Courtesy of H.B.M.C.
Yonan wrote: Speaking of people we'd like to leave ; p
Can't exalt that enough!
Yes, Alan Merrett is who should be forced out of GW. No creativity, no independent thought, derisive of the customer base, paranoid, and an inveterate yes-man whose only credential is that he's been with the company since forever, long ago promoted above his competence level.
Merrett is the embodiment of most of what is wrong with GW. The day that Merrett is fired is the day that GWmight have actually decided to seriously rethink its business philosophy. He's essentially entrenched, incompetent upper management. He's not going to get fired without a massive housecleaning at GWHQ, hence his dismissal would be a signal of substantive change.
Personally, I don't think he'll be around much longer. I think there's been a great deal of pressure put on Tom Kirby, and he's going to be running through an increasingly shorter list of scapegoats as the company's decline accelerates. Merrett has a big target on his head due to his intense involvement with the GW v CHS litigation, which Kirby has now publicly admitted as being an ill-conceived, indecently costly mistake. This puts Merrett firmly in the cross hairs, and I personally think his job is only safe so long as Kirby keeps him sheltered.
If there is indeed intense pressure on Kirby, Merrett will get stabbed in the back eventually. And don't forget that Gill Stevenson has already had her head on the chopping block, and that was preemptive. Kirby can't really put blame on Stevenson though since he personally lauded the litigation at the same time she was dismissed. Having only now admitted it was a mistake (likely because substantive investors are now aware of the litigation), somebody else has to eat the blame for it. You can't really quell disquiet like that by saying you dismissed your general counsel more than a year ago but failed to tell investors about it until now...after they found out about it on their own...
It would sort of seem like you were trying to hide something if you did that, and trying to hide things from investors is generally not considered to be a laudable practice. Hence (assuming pressure is being brought and that the case is being used as leverage) somebody else will have to take the fall.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/08/12 01:33:40
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
I imagine many SOB players are quietly celebrating. But honestly, I hope he finds a kick-butt job quickly and does something amazing. (Just stay away from fluff writing, buddy.)
Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions.
Boggy Man wrote: I've been reading his blog, and I'm beginning to like Ward.
The first post on it is a cry for more female protagonists in sci-fi and fantasy. One of his latest is defending nerdly devotion to continuity and blaming bad writers for needing to break existing cannon. You know, the exact OPPOSITE of everything we thought he was about.
Linky-link? Please?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Azreal13 wrote: It happened, 5th Ed BA codex, and was referenced again in the Necron book IIRC
I demand excerpts.
But gimme some time to brace myself.
Demand all you like, I'm not your PA.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Why? His work in Sisters' fluff was very… unremarkable. Nothing new, neither good nor bad. And he did not write the rules for them, apparently.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Davor wrote: I think Matt wrote one of the best rule sets ever. Lord of the Rings, great ruleset. Clear concise rules. Great game play, and lots of tactics. Simple and not complicated.
Pretty sure Rick Priestley conceived the original groundwork for the LOTR rules.
Yes, it was Priestley, then Alessio. As one who as been around the LotR scene from the beginning, Ward took a bunch of heat when he started to write LotR stuff, but that's mostly because by that point GW started making up their own crap rather than doing book stuff.
Azreal13 wrote: It happened, 5th Ed BA codex, and was referenced again in the Necron book IIRC
I demand excerpts.
But gimme some time to brace myself.
Full excepts of the incident in question.
BA codex wrote:
Commander Dante and the 3rd company battle against the Necron legions of the Silent King amid the dusty wastes of Gehenna. For three weeks, neither side can seize the upper hand, with Dante's tactical brilliance stretched to its limits in countering the time-space manipulations of the Silent King. The stalemate is broken when a Tyranid splinter fleet enters orbit, forcing the two armies to break off hostilities and fight the common foe. The impromptu alliance proves to the the Tyranid's undoing. Following the final battle at Devil's Crag, Dante and the Silent King go their separate ways, both forces now too battleworn to guarantee victory over the other, and, at least for the Blood Angels, the idea of turning on those they had so recently fought alongside a rather distasteful one.
Necron codex wrote:
The Silent King reluctantly joins forces with the Blood Angels to defeat a Tyranid splinter fleet.
That's it. The "Bro-fisting" was just people ranting about the very idea, and blowing the whole thing out of proportion. Because it is witty to do things like that regarding GW fluff, or give things "funny" pejorative names like Failcast or Finecost or Space Chipmunk.
Davor wrote: I think Matt wrote one of the best rule sets ever. Lord of the Rings, great ruleset. Clear concise rules. Great game play, and lots of tactics. Simple and not complicated.
Pretty sure Rick Priestley conceived the original groundwork for the LOTR rules.
Yes, it was Priestley, then Alessio. As one who as been around the LotR scene from the beginning, Ward took a bunch of heat when he started to write LotR stuff, but that's mostly because by that point GW started making up their own crap rather than doing book stuff.
Did he write the war of the ring rules, is that what Davor meant?
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Boggy Man wrote: I've been reading his blog, and I'm beginning to like Ward.
The first post on it is a cry for more female protagonists in sci-fi and fantasy. One of his latest is defending nerdly devotion to continuity and blaming bad writers for needing to break existing cannon. You know, the exact OPPOSITE of everything we thought he was about.
Linky-link? Please?
Under the blog tab.
http://www.thetowerofstars.co.uk/ He's not Churchill, but his writing is far more intelligent than I thought it would be.
Since it's slowly been revealed that codices are a collaborative effort, wouldn't it be hilarious if Kelly and Cruddace were writing all the parts everyone hated?
I notice my posts seem to bring threads to a screeching halt. Considering the content of most threads on dakka, you're welcome.
It would be nice for them to fall back on what actually was good about 40K before this clown got his mitts on it and started with his ret-conning. Much the same as all of this company's idea of "Attitude over skill" Its a hot air wish list to want to see some of the old guard come back on board and set the ship back on the right course of no nonsense gaming and fun, again.
I'll go on and say that I'm glad to see the ax falling on people who deserve it. We can't see some new books, nullifying this clowns garbage fast enough. He is a hack, pure and simple. I never enjoyed reading anything he wrote.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out, Wart.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
Kanluwen wrote: ...Robin "I Brought Hotshot Lasguns Back" Cruddace.
I've explained this one to you in the past, and even if this criticism were valid, it's a damned petty reason to dislike someone. Dislike Cruddace because he's failed at writing two Tyranid Codices, not because of Hotshot Lasguns.
Kilkrazy wrote: However, Ward apparently had written more than his fair share of recent codexes. We know that codexes recently have not been selling so well, no doubt due to having been doubled in price; perhaps Ward merely carried the can for management's mistake in pricing books so high.
This I can buy, especially for a company that doesn't do any market research and therefore would never dare to imagine that a doubling in price might have more to do with lower sales than the guy who wrote the book.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/12 04:08:34
He's the only one to include humor. I had most codexes 4th through 5th. Most of 6/7e, so, maybe I missed an item (strangely, I don't remember an ork funny story in Kelly's 5e codex).
In the Dark Eldar codex, it has you insisting on twisting your handlebar moustache ....
And there's this one:
Page 23, "An Unexpected Ally"
Iyanden eldar has already fought hive Fleet Kraken, and were spent when an ork Waaagh! assailed them. At their last resorts, they awoke their "revered ancestors from their deathly slumbers" (Wraithguard).
Dark eldar show up and help their mopey cousins beat the orks. Kelly wrote: "When asked by Iyanden's Council of Seers as to why they intervened, the Dark Eldar reply that they find Iyanden's angst ridden forays into the world of necromancy extremely entertaining."
Broken rules? Kelly *and* Ward (JoWW and MindShackleS, douche canoes, Tesla)
Good fluff? Kelly
I call that Game and Match, kids.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/12 04:09:25
"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.
"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013
Grot 6 wrote: I can't happy dance this mutt leaving enough.
It would be nice for them to fall back on what actually was good about 40K before this clown got his mitts on it and started with his ret-conning. Much the same as all of this company's idea of "Attitude over skill" Its a hot air wish list to want to see some of the old guard come back on board and set the ship back on the right course of no nonsense gaming and fun, again.
I'll go on and say that I'm glad to see the ax falling on people who deserve it. We can't see some new books, nullifying this clowns garbage fast enough. He is a hack, pure and simple. I never enjoyed reading anything he wrote.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out, Wart.
Let me know if the axe falls on you so I can celebrate you losing your job and do a happy dance. I can't wait to see some new poster come along either, nullyfying your garbage posts as well. You are a hack, pure and simple. I never enjoy reading anything you write.
Huh. It is easier to mock and insult people you don't know on the internet. Hmm. Maybe you are right. Schadenfreude is fun!
Hopefully (but unlikely) point made. Internet would be a nicer place if everyone treated other people with a minimum of civility and human decency.
Andy Chambers and Alessio both write damn good rules. Good thing they moved on to better companies and were given a chance to do so without Kronies breathing down their necks. Maybe Ward will actually do the same. But for everyone saying he writes solid rules...7th edition daemons and O&G would like a word with you ("I hate greenskins" and "well, of course they should win-they're daemons"). When it's been documented he has said these things, you're deluding yourself if you think GW was pulling his strings on how to write. I don't wish the man a horrible life, but maybe his leaving will end his terrible previous writing (not all was terrible, but lord there were some stinkers).
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.
Kelly gave us Canis Wolfborn as a new character. He may not have started the wolf theme naming, but he sure ran with it. "Wolf wolfborn, riding a giant wolf!" Thats easily as bad as some of the original Rogue Trader nonsense, like Ferrus Manus leading the Iron Hands, or Corax's last words being "Nevermore!"
Ward gave us Draigo, an awesome Samurai-Jack-like character doomed to fight but never win, Trayzn, the evil prankster, and Vulkan Hes'Tan and Kosarro Khan, finally adding interesting faces to two neglected chapters.
No, no, no. Andy Chambers was an inspired creative force, a man who could (and still can!) conjure up imagery and stories that rivalled almost anyone who has worked at Games Workshop past, future or present. He is responsible for some of the greatest things in 40K/WFB lore, and has shaped everything we love about those settings in ways we can't comprehend.
