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Do you think vehicles are to hard to deal with in this edition? With little to no chance of blowing them up unless you have AP1-2 weapons.

I personally like them actually getting their points worth. Me and a friend has a difference of opinions on the matter.

Also are you a tourney player or a fluff player?

No. With no intrinsic save mechanism and hull points allowing them to be glanced to death from a single round of shooting, most vehicles still suck in this edition..

 balsak_da_mighty wrote:
Also are you a tourney player or a fluff player?

Yes.

What Insakiak said.

HP's made the damage table largely irrelevant, and as a result, anything that doesn't have very high AV or enhanced Jink (e.g. Holofields), is usually killed very easily just by having their AV met or exceeded three times.

Vehicles are still WAY harder to kill than infantry, and is the reason why you very often see mech lists in one form or another from any army that can run them.

The only reason vehicles aren't still as way crazy popular as they were in 5th is because of what they did to monstrous creatures, which is why you very often see MCs from any army that can run them.

If you step back from comparing them to overpowered MCs, though, vehicles are still very strong, and are stronger now than they were in 6th, thanks to the change in the damage table and the fact that transports returned to being (super)scoring in their own right once more.

Which, compared to foot lists... well...

Nope.

Perhaps its because im IG and have some serious AT weapons or sheer volume of fire to remove every hull point but so far I've have had no issues with vehicles.

Depends on the vehicle. fast moving resilient tank transports are good. Hard to glance Land raiders are ok, as long as opponents don't spam lance or drop pod meltaguns. All other vehicles got maybe a little better, but people run them for scoring and super scoring.

If people use cover correctly, vehicles can be good.
Use dozer blades if you can, and park in area terrain. You'll last longer.

Vehicles are easy to deal with. Unless it's a flyer or has AV14 I don't have a problem removing the enemy's vehicles in the first 3 turns. My stormfang takes care of enemy flyers and my chainfist and meltas handle the rest so I rarely go through a game without wiping out all the enemy vehicles. If your list can't glance a vehicle to death in a round or two of shooting you might want to think about running some bigger guns. Every faction has access to AP1/2 weapons as far as I know. With all the vehicles running around, I don't see a reason not to take them. I play mostly leagues and tournaments.

If going mech its better to go full mech. A couple of vehicles dissapear very quickly (unless they are skimmers with magic gun shields) but 5+ vehicles means that some can hang around for the whole game.

Fluffy player with a occational dose of bloodlust, and no. Vehicels dies just as easily as anything else still. pump enough AT weapons into them, or assult them and rip them appart in mele. Both works very well,

 Skinnereal wrote:

Use dozer blades if you can, and park in area terrain. You'll last longer.

Yup, this works spectacularly well for close combat dreadnoughts...

Playing with my Daemons makes it real hard to pop vehicles. If the other player has a lot (especially any AV14) I really struggle with anything other than CC.

On the flip-side, running two Soul Grinders means they have an equally hard time.

My friend that plays Orks throws all his units in AV13 transport and bombs up the board now; makes it really hard to stop.

Depends on the army. Daemons are not anti-vehicle. If you have meltas you'll be fine.

 insaniak wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:

Use dozer blades if you can, and park in area terrain. You'll last longer.

Yup, this works spectacularly well for close combat dreadnoughts...

I'd have thought otherwise.
Will have to give it a go.
Back with a report soon...

 Skinnereal wrote:
If people use cover correctly, vehicles can be good.
Use dozer blades if you can, and park in area terrain. You'll last longer.

Area terrain doesn't exist in 7th edition...

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
If people use cover correctly, vehicles can be good.
Use dozer blades if you can, and park in area terrain. You'll last longer.

Area terrain doesn't exist in 7th edition...

OK, I meant Diffiult Terrain, which gives a 5+ to anything behind it. Or Ruins, with a 4+

There is such a huge disconnect between AV 12 and AV 13 with the weapons in the game that... it's like unreal. Let me back up. Vehicle rules feel like a mismatch, or that they don't belong in 40K. What I mean is, when you shoot, you take your BS, roll some dice. Take the strength of the weapon, compare it to the models toughness, roll again. The target then compares his armor save to the armor piercing value of the weapon, and rolls more dice. Take a number, roll some dice, compare it to a value. Roll to hit, roll to wound, take a save. That's the core mechanic of 40K. Now, let's look at a vehicle. When shooting, it's hugely affected by what the vehicle did in the movement phase. Is it a fast vehicle? Did it move at combat speed? Cruising speed? All out? Was it affected by something else from last turn that modifies how it shoots this turn? Then you check LoS, then you check firing arc. Unlike infantry that can shoot 360, a vehicle has firing arcs and you have to somehow measure and check LoS from each weapon's barrel. From here, you fire like everything else in the game. When a vehicle gets shot at, once again, things change dramatically. Once you roll to hit against the vehicle, all kinds of things can happen. Can the vehicle jink? Is the vehicle in cover? And here is where TLoS and Cover rules fail in 40K. 25% of the vehicle has to be obscured, or did it pop smoke in the last round, or... Once you figure out if the vehicle has been hit or not and if it gets a save, then you have to determine which facing of the vehicle was hit. Easy enough on the boxy tanks of the Imperium, but Eldar Falcons/Wave Serpents? Devilfish? Imperial Knight? Heck, a Stormtalon? As most vehicles are not mounted on a base, or the base isn't marked with arcs, you can get into some significant arguments about what face is hit... especially if the weapon can only glance the side, but has no chance of the front side. Against a vehicle? Roll to hit, then take a save, then roll for it's effects. Then we get into the Hull Points issues, and that wonky vehicle damage table... where only AP 1/2 weapons can cause a vehicle to blow up regardless of its strength or how high you rolled to overcome the armor value. That d6 roll for damage is one of the worst rolls in the game only modified by the AP of a weapon. Whereas vehicle saves are computed by movement and cover, the damage roll to overcome AV is modified by all kinds of things, then you roll on that stupid damage table. Who cares if you rolled and affected AV 16 on an AV 10 tank- unless you have an AP 1-2 weapon, it's a straight up d6 roll.

Then we go into close combat where what happened in the previous turn or previous movement phase affects what happens in this phase- again, this doesn't matter except in a few rare cases to infantry. The vehicle is either WS 1 or 0... unless you are a walker. Huh? I don't quite understand how my skimmer can be hit in close combat when all it has to do is turn up the grav plates a bit more and float up above the combat. Vehicles don't get to shoot overwatch, unless you are a walker... Then when we get into close combat, the vehicle facing doesn't matter. Even if only one Ork out of a mob of 20 reaches just the front bit of a tank, all his hits are on the backside of the vehicle. Huh? So even if I was shooting the vehicle with anti-tank weapons in the shooting phase, as soon as I get into close combat, my "combat knife" on my Space Marine can take down a Leman Russ Battletank? Then we have that stupid damage table again. If the vehicle survives, it can simply just leave the combat. If it wins the combat, does it get the chance to sweep the squad? Nope. Best it can hope for is to tank shock the unit next turn... and that has all kinds of chances to blow up your tank.

The vehicle rules are clunky, make no sense, and are vastly different from everything else in 40K. There is no flow to them. It's like they were added as an afterthought, and we've been stuck with them since 3rd. GW keeps tweeking them, but all they do is transfer the problems around in each edition. They really, really need to scrap the vehicle rules they have and start over, and make them more in line with the rest of 40K.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
If people use cover correctly, vehicles can be good.
Use dozer blades if you can, and park in area terrain. You'll last longer.

Area terrain doesn't exist in 7th edition...

Yes it does, it just needs to be Citadel™ area terrain.