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2014/08/20 12:12:12
Subject: Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
I wonder if it turns out that Brown attacked the officer and busted him up, the protestors will go "damn", we were wrong, and do a show of support for Wilson.
Probably none of them talked to the clerk that got pushed around and said it was inexecusable that he had to put up with such treatment from someone so much bigger than him.
2014/08/20 12:26:18
Subject: Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
Honestly, I'm not sure good shoot or bad shoot makes much of a difference to the underlying issues. The blacks are very under represented in that police force and (right or wrong) feel as if they are not treated fairly, the shooting was just a very visible symptom to them.
Good shoot/bad shoot has no bearing on another issue, perceived over reaction by a highly militarized police force.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2014/08/20 12:30:52
Subject: Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
If by 'good' you mean outlining perfectly what's wrong with the police attitude, then yes.
"Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me."
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2014/08/20 13:03:57
Subject: Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
If by 'good' you mean outlining perfectly what's wrong with the police attitude, then yes.
"Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me."
Its accurate. Here's what you do do. You don't raise your voice. You don't raise your hands. You don't consent to a search without the advice of your attorney. You don't resist the search but you continue to verbally note you are not consenting to any search without the advice of your attorney. You don't consent to even talk without the advice of your attorney.
Oh wait he actually says it:
Having worked as an internal affairs investigator, I know that some officers engage in unprofessional and arrogant behavior; sometimes they behave like criminals themselves. I also believe every cop should use a body camera to record interactions with the community at all times. Every police car should have a video recorder. (This will prevent a situation like Mike Brown’s shooting, about which conflicting and self-serving statements allow people to believe what they want.) And you don’t have to submit to an illegal stop or search. You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there’s no warrant (though a pat-down is still allowed if there is cause for suspicion). Always ask the officer whether you are under detention or are free to leave. Unless the officer has a legal basis to stop and search you, he or she must let you go. Finally, cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force: The moment a suspect submits and stops resisting, the officers must cease use of force.
Its a good article and a very accurate wrong. Words of wisdom. Forwarding to The Boy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/20 13:08:18
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/08/20 13:08:03
Subject: Re:Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
If by 'good' you mean outlining perfectly what's wrong with the police attitude, then yes.
"Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me."
That seems to be some selective quoting to me. What he seems to be saying, from reading the whole thing, is both sides should be polite, calm and respect each other. One side not doing this is no excuse for the other side to not do this, but if you are aggressive towards the police you do risk them taking action to stop you. You can read the quote two ways. You can read it as an angry officer saying "Do what I say" or an officer saying "Don't abuse me".
insaniak wrote: Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons...
2014/08/20 15:09:02
Subject: Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
....Finally, cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force: The moment a suspect submits and stops resisting, the officers must cease use of force.
Ha!
See, this is the problem.
If the police do it right, and I do it right, I get off ok.
If the police do it right, and I do it wrong, I go to jail, get hurt. my own fault.
If the police do it wrong and I do it wrong, I go to jail/get shot/am now a fugitive.
If the police do it wrong and I do it right, I may get beat/go to jail and odds are nothing happens to the police officer.
Accountability needs to happen. The police need to stop protecting their own from serving time for crimes committed by the police.
2014/08/20 15:22:18
Subject: Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
This sort of information should have been made available much earlier in this whole sorry series of events.
Incorrect.
Police investigating 101 is to not shout out the facts of this case while interviewing witnesses.
Witnesses give lots of subjective testimony. Facts are objective.
Releasing known facts, especially facts that are not going to change based on witness testimony, is not going to affect the investigation.
Saying much earlier that "there was a struggle, the officer suffered an orbital fracture, and Brown was shot and killed" is not going to affect the witness testimony because no matter what witnesses say the officer sustained an orbital fracture and Brown was hit by bullets.
Saying "we can't release information yet because we don't want to taint witness testimony" doesn't make much sense because the fracture is not going to go away and Brown won't magically come back to life based on testimony.
2014/08/20 15:24:23
Subject: Re:Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
KANSAS CITY, Mo. — A Kansas City man is now front and center in the controversial shooting death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo. Shawn Parcells owns a company that provides autopsy services, and some in the forensic community are taking issue with his involvement in this or any other case.
Parcells owns National Forensic Autopsy and Recovery Services. He says lawyers for the family of Michael Brown contacted him because of his expertise in gunshot wounds.
“I am a forensic pathologist assistant and medical investigator,” Parcells told FOX 4’s Shannon O’Brien.
However, that’s something of a dubious title according to forensic pathologist Dr. Erik Mitchell.
“That is a degree that does not exist in my knowledge, except in the mind of Shawn Parcells,” Dr. Mitchell said.
Dr. Mitchell takes issue with Parcells’ title.
“You cannot claim the title, because it is a formal, licensable position. You can assist somebody; in this way I can say, for instance, I have paid my taxes, so I am an assistant President of the United States,” Dr. Mitchell said.
Parcells admits he has no certification as a pathology assistant, but says his qualification comes from experience.
“I worked there as a forensic assistant for about a year. And if I remember correctly that was 2005 to 2006. That was under Dr. Young,” Parcells said.
That’s Dr. Thomas Young, the former Jackson County Medical Examiner.
“And that’s honestly where I gained a lot of my experience,” Parcells said.
Parcells says his training began in 1997 when he interned with Dr. Young, until he was hired in the mid-2000’s.
Dr. Young responded with this statement:
“Shawn hung out at the Jackson County Medical Examiner’s office but was not trained by me.”…. “He has been representing himself in a way that is not appropriate by giving forensic pathology opinions when he is not qualified to do so.”
“He has none of the qualifications that are required. He has experience as a morgue technician, somebody who would move bodies around, clean up after an autopsy,” Dr. Mitchell said.
Parcells says he has detractors because of a competitive system.
“A lot of this was started because I have competitors who I was taking business from. And the coroners, also, is a very political system. It’s buddy-buddy, who’s your buddy?” Parcells said.
Dr. Mitchell doesn’t agree.
“Jealousy has nothing to do with the issue with Parcells. Parcells is practicing medicine without a license,” he said.
Parcells says he and Dr. Baden are offering their services for free to the Brown family. Only their travel and related expenses are being paid for.
Jeez...
So if the official report comes out from the STLPD, a licenced MD, that deviates from Parcells' report... whoa momma.
This sort of information should have been made available much earlier in this whole sorry series of events.
Incorrect.
Police investigating 101 is to not shout out the facts of this case while interviewing witnesses.
Witnesses give lots of subjective testimony. Facts are objective.
Releasing known facts, especially facts that are not going to change based on witness testimony, is not going to affect the investigation.
Saying much earlier that "there was a struggle, the officer suffered an orbital fracture, and Brown was shot and killed" is not going to affect the witness testimony because no matter what witnesses say the officer sustained an orbital fracture and Brown was hit by bullets.
Saying "we can't release information yet because we don't want to taint witness testimony" doesn't make much sense because the fracture is not going to go away and Brown won't magically come back to life based on testimony.
Ever heard of the SOP of "we don't comment on an active investigation"?
Even though that SOP is being shredded to thy kingdom come...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/20 15:26:08
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2014/08/20 15:27:25
Subject: Re:Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon drew criticism from his own Lt. Governor Tuesday when he said “a vigorous prosecution must now be pursued” in the shooting death of black 18-year-old Michael Brown by white police Officer Darren Wilson in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson.
Nixon made the comment in a videotaped statement in which he said he would not remove St. Louis County Prosecutor Bob McCulloch from the case despite the demands of some black leaders who believe that McCulloch’s deep family ties to law enforcement would affect his impartiality. McCullouch’s father, mother, brother, uncle and cousin all worked for the St. Louis Police Department, and his father was killed while responding to a call involving a black suspect.
In his statement, Nixon cited what he called the “well-established process” by which prosecutors can recuse themselves from pending investigations to make way for a special prosecutor. Departing from that process, Nixon said in a statement, “could unnecessarily inject legal uncertainty into this matter and potentially jeopardize the prosecution.”
“We have a responsibility,” Nixon said, “to come together, and do everything we can to achieve justice for [Brown's] family.” Nixon added that McCulloch and U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder had an obligation “to achieve justice in the shooting death of Michael Brown must be carried out thoroughly, promptly, and correctly.”
“It’s really heartbreaking to see a man elected to an office that high in our state government … come out with a statement like that, that does prejudge the case,” Missouri Lt. Gov. Peter Kinder told Fox News’ Shepard Smith late Tuesday. “It would be wrong for a prosecutor to say what the governor has said here tonight and it’s wrong for the governor of Missouri to have said it.”
Talk about tainting the potential jury pool... if the officer get convicted, the defense attorney can play this at the appeals.
TL;DR: Nixon wants justice for Michael Brown. But, apparently the officer isn’t entitled to this justice? Nixon basically said to the officer... get under the bus.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/20 15:41:50
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2014/08/20 15:41:47
Subject: Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
Justice for the family can also be achieved by getting a not-guilty verdict, or not even going to trial, after a non-biased transparent investigation that removes any and all appearances of having the blue shield protect the officer.
A decision not to charge after a secret grand jury, or a not-guilty verdict based on the prosecution by a pro-cop DA who gives the appearance that he wasn't really interested in a guilty verdict from the beginning isn't justice for the family.
A not-guilty verdict based on an transparent investigation, a transparent trial, and by a prosecutor who has no bone in the fight and who is running a case based on facts and without previous baggage would be justice because it's a verdict based on facts and not tainted.
I think you are reading too much into this.
2014/08/20 15:46:16
Subject: Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
d-usa wrote: Justice for the family can also be achieved by getting a not-guilty verdict, or not even going to trial, after a non-biased transparent investigation that removes any and all appearances of having the blue shield protect the officer.
A decision not to charge after a secret grand jury, or a not-guilty verdict based on the prosecution by a pro-cop DA who gives the appearance that he wasn't really interested in a guilty verdict from the beginning isn't justice for the family.
Yeah, about that "pro-cop DA" meme going around. You might wanna re-think dude...
FWIW... that DA was elected 3 times to his current post.
Wow... I can see where this is going to end...
A not-guilty verdict based on an transparent investigation, a transparent trial, and by a prosecutor who has no bone in the fight and who is running a case based on facts and without previous baggage would be justice because it's a verdict based on facts and not tainted.
That is the goal in every one of these cases.
I think you are reading too much into this.
Nah... Nixon is imploding epically here...
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2014/08/20 15:48:52
Subject: Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
d-usa wrote: Justice for the family can also be achieved by getting a not-guilty verdict, or not even going to trial, after a non-biased transparent investigation that removes any and all appearances of having the blue shield protect the officer.
A decision not to charge after a secret grand jury, or a not-guilty verdict based on the prosecution by a pro-cop DA who gives the appearance that he wasn't really interested in a guilty verdict from the beginning isn't justice for the family.
Yeah, about that "pro-cop DA" meme going around. You might wanna re-think dude...
FWIW... that DA was elected 3 times to his current post..
Completely irrelevant.
Look at your own history. There are facts, and then there is the whole "this is how I feel about things, facts be damned" factor.
If the entire community already 'knows' that this DA will not present an impartial case then the verdict is tainted before the trial even begins. Remove the appearance of the blue shield, and you are at a much better starting point.
2014/08/20 15:48:58
Subject: Re:Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
If the entire community already 'knows' that this DA will not present an impartial case then the verdict is tainted before the trial even begins. Remove the appearance of the blue shield, and you are at a much better starting point.
You mean, Nixon not appointing a special prosecuter?
He hasn't yet.
But, when a "community already 'knows' that this DA will not present an impartial case"? Dude... THAT'S the fething "this is how I feel about things, facts be damned" factor.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/20 15:51:13
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2014/08/20 15:55:39
Subject: Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
You're assuming there is sufficient evidence to warrant charging for...anything.
You can only have a trial if there is sufficient evidence to support the charges to a certain minimum standard. Else it will be poured out by the judge.
No trial would be held in that town. A defense attorney would have excellent grounds now to move it to a different jurisdiction.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/08/20 16:01:59
Subject: Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
If the entire community already 'knows' that this DA will not present an impartial case then the verdict is tainted before the trial even begins. Remove the appearance of the blue shield, and you are at a much better starting point.
Do you really think they will accept anyone who is not hugely biased against the cop? And changing the process will just be taken as admission that there is a problem.
insaniak wrote: Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons...
2014/08/20 16:14:11
Subject: Re:Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
Remember, you saw it and heard it here first. We have heard (from a VERY connected national media source) that Ferguson officer Darren Wilson will be cleared in the shooting of Michael Brown. The key: Dorian Johnson has now admitted that Michael Brown attacked Officer Wilson and attempted to take his gun. OFFICER WILSON WILL NOT BE CHARGED! This is scary. When this news is made official, we all have reason to be concerned about the reaction.
Uh... I didn't hear it on the air wave... but, KFNS is generally pretty good about their news cast.
We'll know soon enough...
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2014/08/20 16:17:47
Subject: Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
If the entire community already 'knows' that this DA will not present an impartial case then the verdict is tainted before the trial even begins. Remove the appearance of the blue shield, and you are at a much better starting point.
Do you really think they will accept anyone who is not hugely biased against the cop? And changing the process will just be taken as admission that there is a problem.
What about someone not connected to the case? Switch the DA from another state. I mean we can switch juries, I am pretty sure they can switch DA's
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/08/20 16:18:28
Subject: Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
CptJake wrote: Honestly, I'm not sure good shoot or bad shoot makes much of a difference to the underlying issues.
I've tried really hard to keep an open mind on all sides of this so far since there is so little concrete info. If that news report is true - that he tried to grab the gun, and ultimately it turns out that a guy who should have gotten shot, got shot, and then people riot anyway, it's going to really chip away at what remaining faith I have in humanity.
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2014/08/20 16:21:12
Subject: Re:Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
Remember, you saw it and heard it here first. We have heard (from a VERY connected national media source) that Ferguson officer Darren Wilson will be cleared in the shooting of Michael Brown. The key: Dorian Johnson has now admitted that Michael Brown attacked Officer Wilson and attempted to take his gun. OFFICER WILSON WILL NOT BE CHARGED! This is scary. When this news is made official, we all have reason to be concerned about the reaction.
Uh... I didn't hear it on the air wave... but, KFNS is generally pretty good about their news cast.
We'll know soon enough...
Now we need to figure out if the kid is lying now under pressure of being imprisoned, and how they came up with this story. Its really going to be hard and there needs to be a more thorough investigation other than an eye witness testimony.
CptJake wrote: Honestly, I'm not sure good shoot or bad shoot makes much of a difference to the underlying issues.
I've tried really hard to keep an open mind on all sides of this so far since there is so little concrete info. If that news report is true - that he tried to grab the gun, and ultimately it turns out that a guy who should have gotten shot, got shot, and then people riot anyway, it's going to really chip away at what remaining faith I have in humanity.
There are a few police cases where the officers just raise their gun. I mean if you got a gun pointed at you by a Gangbanger/idiot/moron/killer/mugger/thief, you would steal that gun away, its instinct. The question is this, how far was the cop from the current victim? If he was far too close that is the officer's fault, if he was farther away, then the victim is at fault
As it is currently anyone associated with fegurson police force are not really going to be turstworthy in terms of the evidence they bring up. That may seem like me being biased, but.... I would not trust the department that has been so involved and has escalated the situation to what it CURRENTLY is. With its militarization, and not following police procedure such as wearing a police badge, and being respectful to the members of the community.
Now There are certain things they can do to make me believe what actually happened, 1 Evidence from the scene, 2 more than one eye witness testimony. You Do not base your entire case on one testimony. That brings into question evidential bias and police interrogation tactics are trying to bring out a confession. Confessions are not always a 100% fact.
There was a case a few years ago. Where the police brutually made this 14 year old confess to killing and raping his sister. Which Case I do not remember but it turned out it was actually a serial rapist who had committed the crime. Meaning the police had wrongfully imprisoned a 14 year old.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/20 16:29:57
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/08/20 16:27:10
Subject: Re:Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting
Frazzled wrote: You're assuming there is sufficient evidence to warrant charging for...anything.
Which I covered under "transparent grand jury process".
But hey, let's not read what I write.
I am not seeing a grand jury noted here. I'm seeing straight to trial.
A not-guilty verdict based on an transparent investigation, a transparent trial, and by a prosecutor who has no bone in the fight and who is running a case based on facts and without previous baggage would be justice because it's a verdict based on facts and not tainted.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
