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 d-usa wrote:
Yes, this issue is about race and the way law enforcement interacts with minorities all across the entire nation.

Or do you really think this is a case of "oh my god, the entire nation is freaking out and the media is totally focused on a single case where a white officer shot a black person and this has no implications on anything outside of Ferguson and is not a symptom of a nationwide problem now everybody go away everything is fine"?

Because if you really think that everybody is freaking out over a single shooting in total isolation of anything else that might possibly be going on and that there is absolutely zero history in Ferguson itself (never mind the rest of the USA) I can't help you.

I don't think 'white officer' has anything to do with it. Officer William Lozano's (Colombian/Hispanic) shooting caused the Overtown riots in '89 (I got to see that one). Change 'white officer shot black kid' to 'officer shot black kid' and you get a lot closer.

And I don't think the media is bugging about a single shooting, I think the police reaction to the protests and looting is what has really garnered media attention. Folks throwing the race card on either side were doing so to get more emotion and motivation, adding fuel to an already lit fire. It is a very common tactic used by one side (in this case) to influence the crowd to act in a away sure to bring actions by the cops that can be portrayed (rightly or wrongly) as over reaction, especially when the cops have already done so.

"Some town west of St. Louis" is pretty disingenuous. If you were to ask anyone living in Ferguson where they lived, I assure you the majority of them would tell you St. Louis.

 d-usa wrote:
Yes, this issue is about race and the way law enforcement interacts with minorities all across the entire nation.

Or do you really think this is a case of "oh my god, the entire nation is freaking out and the media is totally focused on a single case where a white officer shot a black person and this has no implications on anything outside of Ferguson and is not a symptom of a nationwide problem now everybody go away everything is fine"?

Because if you really think that everybody is freaking out over a single shooting in total isolation of anything else that might possibly be going on and that there is absolutely zero history in Ferguson itself (never mind the rest of the USA) I can't help you.

You just bought it hook, line, and sinker then.

It's should NOT be "race and the way law enforcement interacts with minorities all across the entire nation".

It should simply be about what transpired that led to Brown's death.

I think it's very telling that the officer related shooting of the white 20-year old In Utah is being largely ignored by the media.

 daedalus wrote:
"Some town west of St. Louis" is pretty disingenuous. If you were to ask anyone living in Ferguson where they lived, I assure you the majority of them would tell you St. Louis.

All of them would say "St. Louis".

 CptJake wrote:

I don't think 'white officer' has anything to do with it. Officer William Lozano's (Colombian/Hispanic) shooting caused the Overtown riots in '89 (I got to see that one). Change 'white officer shot black kid' to 'officer shot black kid' and you get a lot closer.

Fair enough.

And I don't think the media is bugging about a single shooting, I think the police reaction to the protests and looting is what has really garnered media attention.

It's both actually. The shooting in isolation is not newsworthy. The shooting in relation to race and policing in this country was newsworthy. The response to the protest and the looting are news as well.

Folks throwing the race card..

This whole "race card" and "race baiting" stuff just really needs to stop.

 daedalus wrote:
"Some town west of St. Louis" is pretty disingenuous. If you were to ask anyone living in Ferguson where they lived, I assure you the majority of them would tell you St. Louis.

Its not intended to be. Its not St. Louis metro and thats what the news are saying.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cincydooley wrote:
I think it's very telling that the officer related shooting of the white 20-year old In Utah is being largely ignored by the media.

Utah is really hot. Reporters aren't going to go where its hot.

 Frazzled wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
"Some town west of St. Louis" is pretty disingenuous. If you were to ask anyone living in Ferguson where they lived, I assure you the majority of them would tell you St. Louis.

Its not intended to be. Its not St. Louis metro and thats what the news are saying.

Sadly, I can't help that second part.

 whembly wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
"Some town west of St. Louis" is pretty disingenuous. If you were to ask anyone living in Ferguson where they lived, I assure you the majority of them would tell you St. Louis.

All of them would say "St. Louis".

Don't you mean "St Louie"
You could always tell people not from there by how they pronounced it, at least years ago.

Its like when I'm standing at the bus stop here and someone mispronounces "Yankeeland" as "New York."

 Frazzled wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
"Some town west of St. Louis" is pretty disingenuous. If you were to ask anyone living in Ferguson where they lived, I assure you the majority of them would tell you St. Louis.

Its not intended to be. Its not St. Louis metro and thats what the news are saying.

Frazz... it is absolutely "St. Louis Metro".

This is basically "St. Louis":

 Frazzled wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
"Some town west of St. Louis" is pretty disingenuous. If you were to ask anyone living in Ferguson where they lived, I assure you the majority of them would tell you St. Louis.

All of them would say "St. Louis".

Don't you mean "St Louie"

Well, the really awkward part is when we actually pronounce the "St." like "-st".

(we don't actually do this.... or do we?)

 daedalus wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
"Some town west of St. Louis" is pretty disingenuous. If you were to ask anyone living in Ferguson where they lived, I assure you the majority of them would tell you St. Louis.

All of them would say "St. Louis".

Don't you mean "St Louie"

Well, the really awkward part is when we actually pronounce the "St." like "-st".

(we don't actually do this.... or do we?)

LOL... no we don't.

Shhh...

Or should I say "Stttt."

 cincydooley wrote:
I think it's very telling that the officer related shooting of the white 20-year old In Utah is being largely ignored by the media.

white people getting shot isnt race related and wont sell in the news like pandering to easily riled up folks among us. The real Bias here is the medias, being one of selling the story.


its not news worthy unless mr sharpton is yelling about it I guess.

Apparently, if a white cop shoots a black person, even if it is justified, its de facto "race related" to some people, and to others is justification for violent and destructive riots.

That would seem to be the only race related issue in this particular case.

 whembly wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
"Some town west of St. Louis" is pretty disingenuous. If you were to ask anyone living in Ferguson where they lived, I assure you the majority of them would tell you St. Louis.

Its not intended to be. Its not St. Louis metro and thats what the news are saying.

Frazz... it is absolutely "St. Louis Metro".

Spoiler:

This is basically "St. Louis":

 whembly wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Yes, this issue is about race and the way law enforcement interacts with minorities all across the entire nation.

Or do you really think this is a case of "oh my god, the entire nation is freaking out and the media is totally focused on a single case where a white officer shot a black person and this has no implications on anything outside of Ferguson and is not a symptom of a nationwide problem now everybody go away everything is fine"?

Because if you really think that everybody is freaking out over a single shooting in total isolation of anything else that might possibly be going on and that there is absolutely zero history in Ferguson itself (never mind the rest of the USA) I can't help you.

You just bought it hook, line, and sinker then.

It's should NOT be "race and the way law enforcement interacts with minorities all across the entire nation".

It should simply be about what transpired that led to Brown's death.

So let's go backwards from the final event.

Brown gets shot by cop <---Brown got into a fight with cop <--- Brown was stopped for jaywalking <--- The town has a long history of stopping black people in disproportionate amounts <--- The police force is mostly white while the city is mostly black <---- Nationwide pattern of racially problematic policing.

The reaction to the shooting is based on a long and very extensive nationwide problem. You can try to ignore the giant pool of gasoline and only try to focus on the one guy with the match standing there, but that would be ignoring the problem that allowed this reaction to happen in the first place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 easysauce wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I think it's very telling that the officer related shooting of the white 20-year old In Utah is being largely ignored by the media.

white people getting shot isnt race related and wont sell in the news like pandering to easily riled up folks among us. The real Bias here is the medias, being one of selling the story.

Listen kid, when you want to present some studies and sources saying that there is zero race related issues in US law enforcement then be my guest.

If you want to stand there going "lalalalala race is not a problem it's all just pandering and race baiting lalalalala" then that is fine as well. Just don't expect me to take your opinion seriously.

and to others is justification for violent and destructive riots.

When your country quits rioting over hockey then I will consider your insightful ideas about riot prevention


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
"Some town west of St. Louis" is pretty disingenuous. If you were to ask anyone living in Ferguson where they lived, I assure you the majority of them would tell you St. Louis.

Its not intended to be. Its not St. Louis metro and thats what the news are saying.

Frazz... it is absolutely "St. Louis Metro".

Spoiler:

This is basically "St. Louis":

 d-usa wrote:

So let's go backwards from the final event.

Brown gets shot by cop <---Brown got into a fight with cop <--- Brown was stopped for jaywalking <--- The town has a long history of stopping black people in disproportionate amounts <--- The police force is mostly white while the city is mostly black <---- Nationwide pattern of racially problematic policing.

The reaction to the shooting is based on a long and very extensive nationwide problem. You can try to ignore the giant pool of gasoline and only try to focus on the one guy with the match standing there, but that would be ignoring the problem that allowed this reaction to happen in the first place.

which is total, and utter BS.

Unless you would like to prove how the alleged

history of stopping black people in disproportionate amounts

directly caused the late mr brown to break the law by jaywalking, which is something he is supposed to be stopped for.

Besides which, its a very much unproven allegation that all cops are racists who would shoot/arrest a black person in situations where they would not shoot/arrest a white person.

 whembly wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
"Some town west of St. Louis" is pretty disingenuous. If you were to ask anyone living in Ferguson where they lived, I assure you the majority of them would tell you St. Louis.

Its not intended to be. Its not St. Louis metro and thats what the news are saying.

Frazz... it is absolutely "St. Louis Metro".

This is basically "St. Louis":

Spoiler:

 d-usa wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Yes, this issue is about race and the way law enforcement interacts with minorities all across the entire nation.

Or do you really think this is a case of "oh my god, the entire nation is freaking out and the media is totally focused on a single case where a white officer shot a black person and this has no implications on anything outside of Ferguson and is not a symptom of a nationwide problem now everybody go away everything is fine"?

Because if you really think that everybody is freaking out over a single shooting in total isolation of anything else that might possibly be going on and that there is absolutely zero history in Ferguson itself (never mind the rest of the USA) I can't help you.

You just bought it hook, line, and sinker then.

It's should NOT be "race and the way law enforcement interacts with minorities all across the entire nation".

It should simply be about what transpired that led to Brown's death.

So let's go backwards from the final event.

Brown gets shot by cop <---Brown got into a fight with cop <--- Brown was stopped for jaywalking <--- The town has a long history of stopping black people in disproportionate amounts <--- The police force is mostly white while the city is mostly black <---- Nationwide pattern of racially problematic policing.

The reaction to the shooting is based on a long and very extensive nationwide problem. You can try to ignore the giant pool of gasoline and only try to focus on the one guy with the match standing there, but that would be ignoring the problem that allowed this reaction to happen in the first place.

I see where you're coming from and from an objective standpoint, I think it's valid.

However, it's striking too close to home here for me...

I guess what I'm objecting to is bringing in the following grievances at this time:
-The town has a long history of stopping black people in disproportionate amounts (if you lived here, you'd now that this is constantly being looked at)
-The police force is mostly white while the city is mostly black (unfair criticism, but okay)
-Nationwide pattern of racially problematic policing.

These grievances shouldn't NOT be the focal point of the current protest, because it's overshadowing what we all should be focusing on... and that is making sure that there's a transparent, effective investigation.

All these outsiders protestings, political speeches, media-mania is not helping.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:

So they have kind of a Chicagoland thing going. I was surprised when I first visited Chicago to find that, unlike NYC, the term Chicago also covers some of the immediate environs that aren't in the city proper.

Precisely!

D-USA - I may be misquoting here, but I believe the report is not that they were jaywalking but they were walking down the middle of the road in traffic. With that in mind I'm not sure the "disproportionate" racial profiling. But I dunno.

 cincydooley wrote:
D-USA - I may be misquoting here, but I believe the report is not that they were jaywalking but they were walking down the middle of the road in traffic. With that in mind I'm not sure the "disproportionate" racial profiling. But I dunno.

doesnt matter to d-usa that they were stopped for a legitimate crime,

you cannot assert that they were legitimately stopped without being labled as going "lalalla no racism"

 easysauce wrote:

Besides which, its a very much unproven allegation that all cops are racists

Some day you will learn to argue against what people are actually saying instead of arguing against random points that nobody actually made.

That day will truly be a glorious day on DakkaDakka. There will be festivities on the streets. Even posters on Warseer will speak of it.

 d-usa wrote:

 easysauce wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
I think it's very telling that the officer related shooting of the white 20-year old In Utah is being largely ignored by the media.

white people getting shot isnt race related and wont sell in the news like pandering to easily riled up folks among us. The real Bias here is the medias, being one of selling the story.

Listen kid, when you want to present some studies and sources saying that there is zero race related issues in US law enforcement then be my guest.

If you want to stand there going "lalalalala race is not a problem it's all just pandering and race baiting lalalalala" then that is fine as well. Just don't expect me to take your opinion seriously.

except thats not what I have said, AT. ALL.

Only person going lalalalala is you as you lie about peoples posts, intentions, and insult them personally instead of adressing that this was a legitimate stop by the cop.

I never said there is no racism, dont lie and put words in my mouth or edit my posts and quote them if you want to be taken seriously.

 Ouze wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
"Some town west of St. Louis" is pretty disingenuous. If you were to ask anyone living in Ferguson where they lived, I assure you the majority of them would tell you St. Louis.

Its not intended to be. Its not St. Louis metro and thats what the news are saying.

Frazz... it is absolutely "St. Louis Metro".

This is basically "St. Louis":

Spoiler:

 cincydooley wrote:
D-USA - I may be misquoting here, but I believe the report is not that they were jaywalking but they were walking down the middle of the road in traffic.

I have always heard "walking in the street" referred to as jaywalking. If that is the incorrect term I am sorry.

With that in mind I'm not sure the "disproportionate" racial profiling. But I dunno.

I think we have seen a few instances in this thread where the finding was that both nationally as well as locally more blacks were stopped and then let go, but whites where stopped less frequently but more likely to have actually committed a crime when stopped.

I know I have seen the findings on things like that outside the thread.

 d-usa wrote:

Some day you will learn to argue against what people are actually saying instead of arguing against random points that nobody actually made.

take your own advice there then and stop lieing about the content of my posts and mis quoting them.

you asserted that there is a deep seeded widespread and universal problem in that racist shootings, which can only BE a problem if a significant % of the cops are racist.

Maybe we should all step back, take a deep breath, and sing to the glory of the Great Wienie for a second and then discuss eh?

Its getting personal. No need for that. We already all know how this is going to end, don't we, friendo...

 easysauce wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

Some day you will learn to argue against what people are actually saying instead of arguing against random points that nobody actually made.

take your own advice there then and stop lieing about the content of my posts and mis quoting them.

you asserted that there is a deep seeded widespread and universal problem in that racist shootings, which can only BE a problem if a significant % of the cops are racist.

You are almost adorable now.

You know that stuff can affect one race without the perpetrators being racist right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, protip:

Don't bitch and accuse people of misquoting you while at the same time misquoting them in your signature.

If the majority of the population in that town is black and they form the majority of traffic stops in that area, how is that disproportionate?

I've noticed that cops tend to stop vehicles based on the appearance of the vehicles, the more ghetto looking the car the more likely it is to get stopped. Race aside, poorer people tend to have cars that aren't maintained as well and receive more scrutiny be it simply because the cars look bad and often have safety and operational related issues such as lights being out, bad tires, etc. Those are extremely common reason for conducting traffic stops.

When I was a teenager and college student I always had used cars that were near broken down and plenty ghetto, as a result I got pulled over a lot (despite being white). After I finally ended up getting a new car that wasn't all full of rust holes and beat up looking I haven't gotten pulled over since, not due to any change in driving habits but from reducing the questionable state of my car.

Junky and ill maintained cars are pretty common in poorer neighborhoods and because of their state of dis-repair are going to stopped more often regardless of the drivers race.

 Frazzled wrote:
Its getting personal. No need for that. We already all know how this is going to end, don't we, friendo...

I'd like to think you were flipping a quarter while saying that.