Violent protest erupts in Ferguson, MO over deadly police shooting

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**xraytango**

I know that it is a departmental choice, that is all I was saying.

Some still use FMJ's, others use a soft-nose, still others use the hollow-point.

I'm not going to make a statement on the majority, I have spoken with different LEO's across the country over the last twenty years and received various answers.

There is no singular standard across the board.

There was in fact a self-defense case in which the shooter was asked "what sort of round did you use?"

To which he replied, "A .xx caliber Hydroshok."

The attorney then addressed the jury that "only someone who wanted to kill an individual would use such a round."

a LEO of that jurisdiction was called to the stand, and was asked "What sort of round they were equipped with."

To the attorney's delight the LEO replied that they were "in fact issued a FMJ round."

Then to the atty's chagrin he added "But up until two weeks ago we were using Hydroshocks."

Which is what the person had used in his defense...
The defendant was found to have acted in self-defense and not to have acted further than he should have because of the round he chose.

The reason for change in ammo? Budget, of course.

**lilgammer123**

text removed.
reds8n

**sirlynchmob**

daedalus wrote:
He wasn't shot. He STOLE those bullets from the police officer! The fiend!

(this is sarcasm)

seems legit from that police department. A few years earlier they arrested the wrong man, beat him senseless, then arrested him for destruction of government property because he bleed on one of their uniforms while being beaten.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html

**lilgammer123**

sirlynchmob wrote:
daedalus wrote:
He wasn't shot. He STOLE those bullets from the police officer! The fiend!

(this is sarcasm)

seems legit from that police department. A few years earlier they arrested the wrong man, beat him senseless, then arrested him for destruction of government property because he bleed on one of their uniforms while being beaten.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html

I heard that story isn't that sickening?

**Grundz**

gmaleron wrote:
Hate to say it sorry the shooting was justified. With the recent medical releases of both the suspect and the officer it was proven he assaulted the cop. Guess what all you Gov. haters, the facts don't lie. Way to go to the cop for doing his job and defending himself, I would have done the same if I was attacked.

You mean the injury that never happened with the xray from http://www.aapos.org/terms/conditions/28 ? "leaked" by jim hoft? That one?

**Frazzled**

Jihadin wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Frazzled is drunk and has as 8.oo PM call toSingapore pray Frazzled doesn't say something stupidn and loses his job...

OK so kets cut the crap. Can we all say
1. Race relations need to get better. My children need to live in a better world than me.
2. Can't we all just fething get alongn for once and let everyone just live their lives.

Oh and as anAggie Dad I finally saw aggieville. Damn thats a big schoool. Is it wrong to be jealous of your own boy for the opportunities he has. I am so happy. he is so much smarter than me. Can we not have the world just fething get a little better for Him, for all the children? Seriously, people just want to llive and be happy. Enough with the death already. Jesus is crying a whats become of his family. We're all savages time tongod damn grow up and love one another.

Disband all LEO agencies
Let the people police up after themselves since we're all mature and educated grown adults

(Looks at Massrs Smith and Wesson and 30 of our best friends.)
Wait we weren't doing that before? Trust no one but family, for no one else will help you.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crimson wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Watch for the RUssians on the horizon. They are coming .

I know! There are already busloads of them here and they want to buy all our dairy products!

Dairy and vodka...the band's getting back together!

**BunkerBob**

I don't support the looting, that is a bunch of desperate people taking advantage of the situation and should be dealt with according but in the case the kid being shot after surrender. I believe that is called an execution if you have surrendered and they keep shooting to kill..... No one needs to panic though! The KKK is on the scene!

**SlaveToDorkness**

Way to not have all the information, Bob. Are you formulating opinions from only protesters' chant's or something?

Edit: My English teacher was screaming from the grave...

**Jihadin**

BunkerBob wrote:
I don't support the looting, that is a bunch of desperate people taking advantage of the situation and should be dealt with according but in the case the kid being shot after surrender. I believe that is called an execution if you have surrendered and they keep shooting to kill..... No one needs to panic though! The KKK is on the scene!

Someone kick rock over?

**Breotan**

BunkerBob wrote:
I don't support the looting, that is a bunch of desperate people taking advantage of the situation and should be dealt with according but in the case the kid being shot after surrender. I believe that is called an execution if you have surrendered and they keep shooting to kill..... No one needs to panic though! The KKK is on the scene!

Pages one through three of this thread called. They want their narrative back.

**Jihadin**

Breotan wrote:
BunkerBob wrote:
I don't support the looting, that is a bunch of desperate people taking advantage of the situation and should be dealt with according but in the case the kid being shot after surrender. I believe that is called an execution if you have surrendered and they keep shooting to kill..... No one needs to panic though! The KKK is on the scene!
Pages one through three of this thread called. They want their narrative back.

Waited for the opportunity to call eh

**mega_bassist**

I've seen a couple articles on Facebook saying there's a video of Officer Wilson walking around after the shooting completely fine without any facial injuries. I haven't found what they're referring to.

If so, yikes.

**sparkywtf**

xraytango wrote:

Spoiler:

I know that it is a departmental choice, that is all I was saying.

Some still use FMJ's, others use a soft-nose, still others use the hollow-point.

I'm not going to make a statement on the majority, I have spoken with different LEO's across the country over the last twenty years and received various answers.

There is no singular standard across the board.

There was in fact a self-defense case in which the shooter was asked "what sort of round did you use?"

To which he replied, "A .xx caliber Hydroshok."

The attorney then addressed the jury that "only someone who wanted to kill an individual would use such a round."

a LEO of that jurisdiction was called to the stand, and was asked "What sort of round they were equipped with."

To the attorney's delight the LEO replied that they were "in fact issued a FMJ round."

Then to the atty's chagrin he added "But up until two weeks ago we were using Hydroshocks."

Which is what the person had used in his defense...
The defendant was found to have acted in self-defense and not to have acted further than he should have because of the round he chose.

The reason for change in ammo? Budget, of course.

It should also be noted that a majority of departments (usually the big ones) will tend to follow what the FBI does.

Also note some departments issue weapons, some allow the officer to bring there own. Some maintain weapons very well, some don't. Some get weapons from DoD through 1033 (I think it is that), which is where they also get their MRAPS... Should be noted that 1033 weapons are generally pieces of crap and half the parts need replacing anyways.

Back to Ferguson now.

**Jihadin**

Spoiler:

**sparkywtf**

That first shot may not meet the required threat to justify shooting. That is up to the jury to decide (while applying state law). However, whatever Brown did after that first shot, can still justify deadly force.

**Andrew1975**

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2014/08/21/ac-st-louis-shooting-video.cnn.html

This is pretty interesting. Shows the moments before he was shot, pulls something out of his shirt and walks towards the cops. No hands up. Also they report that it was well know that he had some mental issues. Sounds like some new twists.

Is this the same shooting? Its nothing like the descriptions that I am aware of.

**dogma**

Andrew1975 wrote:

This is pretty interesting. Shows the moments before he was shot, pulls something out of his shirt and walks towards the cops. No hands up. Also they report that it was well know that he had some mental issues. Sounds like some new twists.

That video pretty well refutes the initial police claim, and the idea that the victim was not on the sidewalk.

**Kilkrazy**

I would remind users that racist comments are rude, inflammatory, unacceptable in civilised company, and violate the rules of DakkaDakka, thus attracting penalties.

Thank you.

**Jihadin**

dogma wrote:
Andrew1975 wrote:

This is pretty interesting. Shows the moments before he was shot, pulls something out of his shirt and walks towards the cops. No hands up. Also they report that it was well know that he had some mental issues. Sounds like some new twists.

That video pretty well refutes the initial police claim, and the idea that the victim was not on the sidewalk.

Halfway on the side walk from the black top parking lot. At the 14 sec mark you can tell he has a knife. Also notice his demeaner and posture while walking towards LEO

**Andrew1975**

http://revolution-news.com/slpd-released-graphic-video-of-shooting-of-kajieme-powell-near-ferguson-mo/

Yep its a different shooting. Video shows Kajieme Powell standing outside of the store he just shoplifted two drinks.

The shooting death occurred less than four miles from where Michael Brown was fatally shot by a police officer in the suburb of Ferguson on Aug. 9.

**Jihadin**

Already stated those officers did not carry tazers.

Also I heard from Brown friend lawyer that Wilson was walking around alright. Going to say from experience that Wilson more likely all at once was dealing with mental shock, pain, disbelief and adrenaline rush.

**Breotan**

mega_bassist wrote:
I've seen a couple articles on Facebook saying there's a video of Officer Wilson walking around after the shooting completely fine without any facial injuries. I haven't found what they're referring to.

Being punched in the eye doesn't give you massive swelling and/or discoloration seconds after the hit. Bruises take a little time to form.

**Jihadin**

Off Topic

Hey Bre....did you catch the whack job that killed four people in Seattle that hit the news today somewhat?

On topic

Thinking Wilson was trying to get collective crap back together afterwards or trying to come to grips he was seeing two different vision from a out of alignment right eye

**Ouze**

Jihadin wrote:

Halfway on the side walk from the black top parking lot. At the 14 sec mark you can tell he has a knife. Also notice his demeaner and posture while walking towards LEO

That mostly looks like a good shoot - you can hear them screaming at him to drop the knife. On the other hand, there were at least 3 or so shots after he was already down that seemed maybe unnecessary.

**Jihadin**

Ouze wrote:
Jihadin wrote:

Halfway on the side walk from the black top parking lot. At the 14 sec mark you can tell he has a knife. Also notice his demeaner and posture while walking towards LEO

That mostly looks like a good shoot - you can hear them screaming at him to drop the knife. On the other hand, there were at least 3 or so shots after he was already down that seemed maybe unnecessary.

They stop shooting when he hit the ground?
Pretty much trained to keep shooting till the target hits the ground

Can tell they were not trained NYPD style

Zombies are the exception

**Ouze**

They kept shooting after he hit the ground, as I said in my post. I don't think it's quite enough to turn a righteous shoot wrong, but it surely shows poor training IMO.

And no, definitely not NYPD style - I didn't see a single bystander get hit, let along dozens of them

**Andrew1975**

And no, definitely not NYPD style - I didn't see a single bystander get hit, let along dozens of them

They also didn't need to reload........twice.

**whembly**

dogma wrote:
Andrew1975 wrote:

This is pretty interesting. Shows the moments before he was shot, pulls something out of his shirt and walks towards the cops. No hands up. Also they report that it was well know that he had some mental issues. Sounds like some new twists.

That video pretty well refutes the initial police claim, and the idea that the victim was not on the sidewalk.

Wrong shooting dogma. This did not happen in Ferguson.

**Dreadclaw69**

Crimson wrote:

Spoiler:

Ok, I compiled a list of every case the Finnish police shooting a person I could find from last twenty years (there are of course more, but these are the ones I could find details on.)

[spoiler]1994. A man threatens a taxi driver with a gun and barricades himself in a house. The police sieges the house for two days, while the shoots wildly from the house, and eventually sets the house on fire. Police shoots the man in the leg, but he still wont surrender. The police kills the man with a shot in the head.

1995. A man suspected from taxi robbery point a gun at the police that come to arrest him. The police shoots him dead. Turns out the man's weapon was a toy.

1997.A man armed with a shot gun shoots wildly and refuses to surrender, the police shoots the man, killing him.

2000. The police try to apprehend a man escaped from a mental hospital. The man is armed with a billhook and charges the police. He is shot once in the leg. When he tries to get up, another police officer shoots him again in the leg. The man is taken to hospital, but later dies. The police officer who shot the second shot is convicted of excessive use of force and negligent homicide.

2006. A man has several guns and starts to shoot wildly in a populated area he threatens to shoot the police and refuses to give up his weapons. The police shoot him in the leg, he survives.

2007. A man randomly attacks another man on a busy street, and stabs him lethally with a knife. The man behaves aggressively and there are plenty of people present. The police shoots the man in the leg, he survives.

2007. A man armed with a billhook behaves aggressively, He refuses to give up his weapon and eventually charges toward the police. The police shoots the man in the leg, he survives.

2007. The police chase a suspect who barricades himself in a house. When the police try to approach, the man threatens them with a gun, The police try to shoot him in the leg, but miss. The man surrenders.

2008. A man holds a woman hostage, threatens to rape her. When the police breaks in the apartment, the man holds a knife on the woman's throat and refuses to surrender. The police shoots the man once in the arm, he survives.

2009. A man has barricaded himself in a house and has shot and seriously injured another person who is with him in the house. He refuses to give up his gun and behaves aggressively. The police kills the man with a single shot.

2010. A drunk driver with truck causes serious danger. The police tries to stop the man with a spike strip, but the man continues to drive even his tires are flat. Eventually a police car that tried to stop the truck ends up being dragged in the front of the truck. The police shoots two shots at the man, one hit and wound him (he survives.) The police officer firing the shots is suspected of excessive use of force (I don't know whether he was eventually convicted.)

2013. A man armed with a gun shoots a woman in a busy harbour, killing her. The police approach the man, but he refuses to surrender. The police shoot him once in the leg. The man shoots himself and dies.

2013. A man armed with a knife and a gun is spotted on a busy street. The police confronts him, but the man refuses to give up his weapons, and starts to approach the police. The police shoots him once in the leg. The man survives.

This of course is not a complete list. There a few cases (1-4) of the police shooting at a person per year, usually non lethally. The police has killed three people on this century (My list has more than that, as it has cases from 90's too.)

So either, the Finnish police are amazingly bad shots (and try to conserve the bullets by usually shooting a single shot) and fail to hit the centre of the mass and accidentally hit a leg instead, or they're trained differently. The American style 'empty a clip in the suspects chest' shootings just do not happen. Now you can question the wisdom of this policy, but to me it perfectly clear which approach I prefer. I think Kajieme Powell and Michael Brown would've preferred that approach as well.[/spoiler]

So you managed to show that people were shot in the leg, but not that it was police policy or training

blaktoof wrote:
if someone open carries in a restaurant the best thing you can do is pretend freak out, and yell "they have guns, lets get out of here" or just rush out without saying anything.

Do not go back, do not pay for your food or service. You will not be in trouble and no charges will be brought against you, if asked why you didn't pay, you ask why would you risk your life- doesn't the restaurant care more about the safety of their patrons than the 8.99 burger?

the restaurant will then ban open carry.

So when someone exercises their Constitutional right to keep and bear arms the best response you can think of is to make a scene, cause panic, and essentially steal from the establishment, as well as possibly being the cause for the police being phoned thus diverting resources from actual emergency calls?

Steve steveson wrote:
UK police firearms training teaches the use and discharge of firearms to "remove the threat" rather than to kill, but this is normally by shooting the centre of mass. However I believe there is advice about shooting legs or head of a possible suicide bomber, to avoid shooting a possible suicide vest. Also the UK police also do not have an "empty a clip" policy, however due to the very nature of our fire arms officers they are much better shots than the average US office, or officer in any country where guns are carried by all or most officers.

You do realise that by shooting the legs you're not incapacitating the suicide bomber, and still giving them plenty of opportunity to detonate their vest, right?

BunkerBob wrote:
I don't support the looting, that is a bunch of desperate people taking advantage of the situation and should be dealt with according but in the case the kid being shot after surrender. I believe that is called an execution if you have surrendered and they keep shooting to kill..... No one needs to panic though! The KKK is on the scene!

Crimson wrote:
Whatever. In vast majority of cases a single shot would suffice.

Except that it doesn't. The only time that one shot is almost guaranteed to stop a threat is if it hits the brain stem

Crimson wrote:
I am done arguing with Dakka gun brigade why shooting people dead is bad. It is possible to have a different kind of gun culture, it is possible to have different kind of police force. And it saves lives, you just don't seem to want that. Good day and enjoy the blood bath, I guess.

So rather than actually pony up the evidence of your claims as you were asked, and put forward a clear and logical counter you're going to ad hominem and strawman your way out of the thread?

Crimson wrote:
Well, this was certainly an unexpected turn of events, but I'm glad for a this strong case for increased gun control presented here!

Welcome back from your (brief) self-imposed exile! That didn't take to long

**cincydooley**

Can we make Dakka gun Brigade merit badges or something. I'll gladly put it on my Battlefoam case.